Not By Works

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PHart

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#20,461
#20,461
Sully said:
Lol, gotta hand it to ya. I was not expecting that. So your rules apply to anyone not confined to a state of partial or full paralysis?
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It's not my rules.

God judges based on what you have been given. So unless you're nailed to a cross and can't move and will die within minutes of receiving Christ in salvation, God is expecting way more from your salvation than the thief on the cross. You'll be in trouble on the Day of Judgment if you're relying on the thief on the cross's experience to get you through the Judgement with no works to validate you having been born again.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
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Dec 12, 2013
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#20,462
BillG said:
Father forvgive them for they don't know what they are doing.

The very people who nailed him to the cross and those who cried out "Crucify him, Crucify him"

Father forgive them for they don't know what they are doing.

His very enemies.

It blows my mind as well
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AMEN Bill....exactly why ALL glory goes to God.......
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#20,463
Dec 12, 2013
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#20,463
PHart said:
It's not my rules.

God judges based on what you have been given. So unless you're nailed to a cross and can't move and will die within minutes of receiving Christ in salvation, God is expecting way more from your salvation than the thief on the cross. You'll be in trouble on the Day of Judgment if you're relying on the thief on the cross's experience to get you through the Judgement with no works to validate you having been born again.
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I would rather face the Lord in belief instead of facing him trusting into a gospel of a different kind-->faith plus works for!
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#20,464
Nov 24, 2013
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#20,464
dcontroversal said:
I would rather face the Lord in belief instead of facing him trusting into a gospel of a different kind-->faith plus works for!
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big amen! Plus trusting in His work and not ours takes away all fear and insecurity. Who could ever match Jesus in works?
 
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PHart

Guest
#20,465
#20,465
Sully said:
ah, so define righteousness. How does one obtain it?
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Righteousness is right standing with God. And one gets that declaration of right standing (aka, justification) solely by faith in God's forgiveness to wipe away your unrighteousness and replace it with Christ's righteousness, apart from any merit of your own works of righteousness to earn that declaration of righteousness whatsoever.

And we know who has that declaration of righteousness given by faith apart from works by the change of life it produces. If you can't see your profession of your faith in Christ in who you are you don't have the faith in Christ you think you have. You will be burned up at the Judgment. That's how and why works are required to be a part of a genuine 'justification by grace through faith alone' salvation. That's not a works gospel. Paul defined the works gospel as earning a declaration of right standing with God by doing right things. No one here is teaching that gospel.
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
#20,466
Jul 17, 2017
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#20,466
PHart said:
Grace does not follow the person who willfully returns to his old life of unbelief.

​
(I don't know why I can't remove the italics. Sometimes this site doesn't run very well.)​
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The Prodigal Son would disagree with your above statement.
 
Gabriel2020

Gabriel2020

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#20,467
May 6, 2017
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#20,467
Some getting works confused. you have physical works, which the world already do. trying to earn brownie points with God and still living in darkness. That's called the works of the flesh. And you have the one that counts ,The works of the spirit,which the world cannot do because they know him not.,but we do know him and his spirit dwells in us and is working righteousness in us.
 
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Sully

Guest
#20,468
#20,468
PHart said:
It's not my rules.

God judges based on what you have been given. So unless you're nailed to a cross and can't move and will die within minutes of receiving Christ in salvation, God is expecting way more from your salvation than the thief on the cross. You'll be in trouble on the Day of Judgment if you're relying on the thief on the cross's experience to get you through the Judgement with no works to validate you having been born again.
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I get impatient and sometimes forget that there are lessons only time and experience can teach. We'll talk again in about 20 years PHart. Cheers.
 
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PHart

Guest
#20,469
#20,469
TruthTalk said:
The Prodigal Son would disagree with your above statement.
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While Esau proves it.

When God turns the ex-believer over to his unbelief, it's done. There's no coming back. But the Lord is merciful and patient. I believe he gives room for the ex-believer to come back. He is long suffering, but long suffering is not always suffering. He does not endure unbelief forever. He knows when to shut the door on the ex-believer, just as he knows when to shut the door on the one who never believed the gospel but who continually resists the gospel.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
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PHart said:
While Esau proves it.

When God turns the ex-believer over to his unbelief, it's done. There's no coming back. But the Lord is merciful and patient. I believe he gives room for the ex-believer to come back. He is long suffering, but long suffering is not always suffering. He does not endure unbelief forever. He knows when to shut the door on the ex-believer, just as he knows when to shut the door on the one who never believed the gospel but who continually resists the gospel.
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Esau devalued his birthright and sold it for the proverbial bowl of beans.....he is no example of New Covenant faith that saves.....!
 
Gabriel2020

Gabriel2020

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#20,471
May 6, 2017
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#20,471
oh he had works alright, his faith to believe that Jesus was the Son of God., and that he could give him eternal life. spiritual works. There is no works without the word of God in your heart, which is lead by the Holy Spirit.
 
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PHart

Guest
#20,472
#20,472
stonesoffire said:
...trusting in His work and not ours takes away all fear and insecurity. Who could ever match Jesus in works?
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That's right. That's called 'having faith'. And as long as you have this faith you are secure in God's salvation, no one can take it away from you.

And we know that we truly have this faith and the security of salvation it produces by how we live. If we live characteristically unrighteous lives then we do not have the right standing with God we think we have. We will be burned up at the Judgment, not saved. That's why works must be a part of salvation. Not to earn salvation, but because faith in God's forgiveness changes a person more and more into a person who acts like Jesus. If you can not prove this change of nature at the Judgment where the unrighteous and the righteous are separated as goats are from sheep you will be judged as not having the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works. You will be sent away to everlasting fire.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#20,473
Nov 24, 2013
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#20,473
PHart said:
Righteousness is right standing with God. And one gets that declaration of right standing (aka, justification) solely by faith in God's forgiveness to wipe away your unrighteousness and replace it with Christ's righteousness, apart from any merit of your own works of righteousness to earn that declaration of righteousness whatsoever.

And we know who has that declaration of righteousness given by faith apart from works by the change of life it produces. If you can't see your profession of your faith in Christ in who you are you don't have the faith in Christ you think you have. You will be burned up at the Judgment. That's how and why works are required to be a part of a genuine 'justification by grace through faith alone' salvation. That's not a works gospel. Paul defined the works gospel as earning a declaration of right standing with God by doing right things. No one here is teaching that gospel.
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Do you have software that you could do topic searches with? I ask because I think if you searched "in Him" in the NT, you might change your belief.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Sully said:
I get impatient and sometimes forget that there are lessons only time and experience can teach. We'll talk again in about 20 years PHart. Cheers.
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At the current rate which the world is circling down the proverbial toilet bowl....we probably do not have 20 years........just saying and not predicting any dates etc......
 
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PHart

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#20,476
#20,476
dcontroversal said:
Esau devalued his birthright and sold it for the proverbial bowl of beans.....he is no example of New Covenant faith that saves.....!
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That's right, he is an example of treating the promised inheritance with contempt in favor of the appetites of the flesh. Saved or unsaved, if you treat the blood of Christ with contempt you too will have no inheritance in Christ. You will not inherit the promise of salvation. No prior lip service confession of Christ can save you. You have treated the blood of Christ as an unholy thing. You lose the sacrifice of Christ for the forgiveness of sin. You will be burned up at the Judgement, not saved. Even your tears will bring no change of mind of God at the Judgment. God has warned us, folks. Stop trusting in this popular works-less salvation being pushed in our churches today.
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

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Jul 17, 2017
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Here's a take away point -there will be people in heaven you thought would never be there and there will be people in heaven you thought would be there for sure but they are not - my fear is that the Church is raising up a generation of self-righteous fools who are walking northbound on a southbound sheet of ice - the sign post read, "Your Going the Wrong Way."
 
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PHart

Guest
#20,478
#20,478
stonesoffire said:
Do you have software that you could do topic searches with? I ask because I think if you searched "in Him" in the NT, you might change your belief.
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For the sake of honest truth seekers lurking among the ranks of those not logged in but viewing this thread, what is it exactly that you do not agree with in my summary of the gospel in post #20465?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#20,479
Dec 12, 2013
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#20,479
PHart said:
That's right, he is an example of treating the promised inheritance with contempt in favor of the appetites of the flesh. Saved or unsaved, if you treat the blood of Christ with contempt you too will have no inheritance in Christ. You will not inherit the promise of salvation. No prior lip service confession of Christ can save you. You have treated the blood of Christ as an unholy thing. You lose the sacrifice of Christ for the forgiveness of sin. You will be burned up at the Judgement, not saved. Even your tears will bring no change of mind of God at the Judgment. God has warned us, folks. Stop trusting in this popular works-less salvation being pushed in our churches today.
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Nice twist on Hebrews......no thanks.....I will not take your working for dogma....

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty where with Christ hath made us free,
and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage." Gal. 5-1.

He that believes on the son IS having everlasting life.....NO works mentioned here.....!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#20,480
Dec 12, 2013
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#20,480
TruthTalk said:
Here's a take away point -there will be people in heaven you thought would never be there and there will be people in heaven you thought would be there for sure but they are not - my fear is that the Church is raising up a generation of self-righteous fools who are walking northbound on a southbound sheet of ice - the sign post read, "Your Going the Wrong Way."
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AMEN....PAUL was clear....faith PLUS works to finish off salvation = false gospel, no power, double cursed and only fools and bewitched believe such foolishness.....
 
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