Not By Works

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TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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This is not a plea to do works to earn your salvation. This is a plea to have the faith that produces works--the faith that saves. He who has ears let him hear.
Matthew11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. [SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

Lesson learned people - if someone teaching you the bible is not of a humble heart and gentle - find a new teacher.
 
P

PHart

Guest
Really....If you believe with your HEART that God has raised him fro the dead and CONFESS with YOU MOUTH thou shalt be saved....

Yes indeed he does accept LIP SERVICE.....and it equates to SALVATION.....
(Okay, one last post....)

And we'll know if you were saved at the moment of your confession, that is we'll know if you truly had faith at that moment, by if you then grow up into the stature of Christ doing the works of righteousness he did. If you do not then you were not really saved by your confession of faith. You had/have a 'faith' that can not, and did not save you. You will be burned up at the Judgment. Dead faith (faith that does not lead to works) can not save. James said so. Dead faith is a misnomer, it's no saving faith at all. It is the 'faith' that demons have.
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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Could you stop accusing me of taking verses out of context and please exegete
Hebrews 10:26-37 for us?

I did this.
You NEVER do this.
And yet you accuse me of taking verses out of context.

PLEASE SHOW HOW I'VE TAKEN THESE VERSES OUT OF CONTEXT.

Thanks.

(of course, you never do because you know I'm interpreting them CORRECTLY)
WHEN and IF you ever get salvation right then we can move on.....Salvation is...

a. Based entirely on faith
b. The work of Christ
c. Eternal
d. Cannot be lost or forfeit
e. Kept by the power of God
f. Started and finished by Christ
g. He will finish the work in us that he began

Now....when you get all that right...then we an can move on beyond the milk of the word.....
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I said Christ already returned? Your off the rez.
I said "I wait for His return - have I missed it?"

You said "you missed it"

So...

If that wasn't what you wanted me to think you meant, I have no idea. Probably you were too wound up thinking of reasons to hate Bono to come up with a clear response..?

Doesn't matter.

I am looking for the day of His return, and I still haven't found what I'm looking for :)
 
Dec 12, 2013
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(Okay, one last post....)

And we'll know if you were saved at the moment of your confession, that is we'll know if you truly had faith at that moment, by if you then grow up into the stature of Christ doing the works of righteousness he did. If you do not then you were not really saved by your confession of faith. You have a 'faith' that can not, and did not save you. You will be burned up at the Judgment. Dead faith (faith that does not lead to works) can not save. James said so. Dead faith is a misnomer, it's no saving faith at all. It is the faith that demons have.
James is not speaking to faith in Christ when referencing the demons, but rather a generic belief in GOD.....and there is a difference.....faith alone into Christ saves....end of story....!
 
S

Sully

Guest
I said "I wait for His return - have I missed it?"

You said "you missed it"

So...

If that wasn't what you wanted me to think you meant, I have no idea. Probably you were too wound up thinking of reasons to hate Bono to come up with a clear response..?

Doesn't matter.

I am looking for the day of His return, and I still haven't found what I'm looking for :)
I thought you were asking if you missed the point....either way we agree it doesn't matter. See you where the streets have no name.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Aint it cool to be free?
AMEN...set free from religion, Pharisee(ism) and struggling to WORK our way anywhere......Jesus said his yoke was easy and light.....not burdensome and full of toil.....!
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Hi Magenta,

No, not at all. The command originates from the OT, but now that Jesus is here in the flesh, he gives new life to the command that couldn't take place before His birth.

Here's what John Piper says.
“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another.” I see two answers implied in this verse.

The key to the answers is found in the words in the second half of the verse: “. . . just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.” The newness of the command to love each other is found in the words “as I have loved you.

I see two ways that the commandment to love each other is new in those words. First, the command is new because it is a command to live out the love of Jesus.

Second, the command is new because it is a command to live on the love of Jesus. The words “as I have loved you” contain a pattern for our love for each other, and they contain a power for our love for each other.

Loving each other is not a new command per se. It was already there in the Old Testament (Leviticus 19:18, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself”). What’s new is that Jesus is now the pattern we live by and the power we live on.
God is the same Yesterday, today and Tomorrow.

I'm sorry to say that some here see two different Gods.

The OLD TESTAMENT God.
The NEW TESTAMENT God.

I take this opportunity to repeat that there is only ONE GOD.

As you've stated, we were supposed to love each other in the O.T. too.
Was not Cain supposed to love his Brother Able?
"Where is your Brother"?
Genesis 4:9

See 1 John 3:11
"THIS IS THE MESSAGE YOU HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING..YOU SHOULD LOVE ONE ANOTHER."
and then John goes on to talk about Cain

John was taught by Jesus. He would not contradict Jesus.

Also, in the O.T. it was taught that one was to love their own but hate the enemy.
Jesus wanted love to be unconditional. He insisted that we hate even our enemies because it would make life easier for us and because they also needed prayer to come to know God.

But you're correct, there is no "new" command.
Jesus was referring to the Kingdom, as He Always did.

It was "new" because He actually EXPECTED US TO FOLLOW IT.

Those in the Kingdom follow the teachings of Christ,
Those not in the Kingdom don't really understand why they should be followed since they are "saved anyway".

Just to add to the above post of yours.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
How much deliberate sinning does it take?

If you think this is what scripture is teaching, you can be sure you have NOT used correct exegesis.

All of Hebrews is the assurance of the full sufficiency of the sacrifice of Jesus as compared to the animal sacrifice of the

Hebrews which did not cover willful sin ...if you read the Old Testament you will see there was not sacrifice for willful sin.

By the sacrifice of Jesus all sins are covered...HIS WORK is necessary and completely sufficient




Cee,

You posted a scripture that supports works.

Hebrews 10:26



Hebrews 10:26-37 New International Version (NIV)

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[a] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”

31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you endured in a great conflict full of suffering.

33 Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated.

34 You suffered along with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions.

35 So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded.

36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.

37 For,

“In just a little while,
he who is coming will come
and will not delay.”[c]


This is what Paul is saying:

1. IF we keep on sinning, there is no further sacrifice apart from Jesus. HE is the last sacrifice.

If we don't do what Jesus taught are we sinning? I believe so.
So we are not only doing works because we love the Lord and want to please Him,
We're ALSO doing works because NOT doing them is a sin. DISOBEYING GOD IS A SIN.
Think of Adam.

2. Are we trampling the Son of God underfoot when we preach that works ARE A SIN.

This is what you post.

"FAITH + WORKS do NOT = Salvation"

IF JESUS told us He wants us to do works, are we not sinning to teach the above equation?

3. We are exhorted to PERSEVER, which means that it's possible NOT TO PERSEVER,

and WHY?

so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised

IF WE PERSEVER TILL THE END WE WILL RECEIVE WHAT HE HAS PROMISED.

We should teach what the bible teaches, not what we'd like it to teach.
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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How much deliberate sinning does it take?

If you think this is what scripture is teaching this you can be sure you have NOT used correct exegesis.

All of Hebrews is the assurance of the full sufficiency of the sacrifice of Jesus as compared to the animal sacrifice of the

Hebrews which did not cover willful sin ...if you read the Old Testament you will see there was not sacrifice for willful sin.

By the sacrifice of Jesus all sins are covered...his work is necessary and completely sufficient
AMEN...and the context is WILLFULLY forsaking the assembly, counting the blood of JESUS a common ordinary thing and trampling underfoot the son of GOD........which always gets left off the context when they push their sinless perfectionism....
 
Apr 30, 2016
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WHEN and IF you ever get salvation right then we can move on.....Salvation is...

a. Based entirely on faith
b. The work of Christ
c. Eternal
d. Cannot be lost or forfeit
e. Kept by the power of God
f. Started and finished by Christ
g. He will finish the work in us that he began

Now....when you get all that right...then we an can move on beyond the milk of the word.....
I TOLD YOU YOU COULDN'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!

SO...

If some poor slob doesn't agree with ALL YOUR VERY OWN THEORIES

YOU refuse to explain any verse to him?

IT'S TOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I better leave for a while again....


See ya...

Oh. Wait.

I'll be back to see IF YOU EVER EXEGETE Hebrews 10:26-37

IT'S gonna be a long wait baby!!
 
S

Sully

Guest
I TOLD YOU YOU COULDN'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!

SO...

If some poor slob doesn't agree with ALL YOUR VERY OWN THEORIES

YOU refuse to explain any verse to him?

IT'S TOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I better leave for a while again....


See ya...

Oh. Wait.

I'll be back to see IF YOU EVER EXEGETE Hebrews 10:26-37

IT'S gonna be a long wait baby!!
That poor keyboard. Remember, your keyboard is your friend. ;)
 
Apr 30, 2016
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How much deliberate sinning does it take?

If you think this is what scripture is teaching, you can be sure you have NOT used correct exegesis.

All of Hebrews is the assurance of the full sufficiency of the sacrifice of Jesus as compared to the animal sacrifice of the

Hebrews which did not cover willful sin ...if you read the Old Testament you will see there was not sacrifice for willful sin.

By the sacrifice of Jesus all sins are covered...HIS WORK is necessary and completely sufficient
UnderGrace,

"Put your money where your mouth is"

You're Always encouraging Dcon.
You like him too, huh? I have so much competition.

Sooo...

Why don't YOU explain Hebrews 10:26-37 since I am, in your opinion, not able to?

Come on UG.
DO IT !!

Don't just tell me I'm wrong...
PROVE IT.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
poor slob
????

I have not heard that expression in a while...well we may be poor but NO ONE is a slob in Christ because we have been washed Clean!!!

Amen





I TOLD YOU YOU COULDN'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!

SO...

If some poor slob doesn't agree with ALL YOUR VERY OWN THEORIES

YOU refuse to explain any verse to him?

IT'S TOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I better leave for a while again....


See ya...

Oh. Wait.

I'll be back to see IF YOU EVER EXEGETE Hebrews 10:26-37

IT'S gonna be a long wait baby!!
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Sure it does Fran....not my fault you are blind to it........maybe read Hebrews in CONTEXT..........and understand the word and it's DUAL USAGE....then you might figure it out!
DUAL USAGE!

A new one.

So Jesus and Paul also spoke in DUAL USAGE.

I know what you mean dear Dcon.

BUT THEY DIDN'T SPEAK IN "DUAL USAGE" all the time.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, EXPLAIN VERSES INSTEAD OF JUST TELLLING ME I'M WRONG.

cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

How come the "workers for" could explain verses but you can't?

Because you don't like what they say?


COME ON.
YOU and UNDERGRACE get your heads together and explain Hebrews 10:26-37

Maybe the TWO OF YOU TOGETHER could do this???
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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I TOLD YOU YOU COULDN'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!

SO...

If some poor slob doesn't agree with ALL YOUR VERY OWN THEORIES

YOU refuse to explain any verse to him?

IT'S TOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I better leave for a while again....


See ya...

Oh. Wait.

I'll be back to see IF YOU EVER EXEGETE Hebrews 10:26-37

IT'S gonna be a long wait baby!!
Post 201510.....that is the context
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Okee Dokee but you always ignore my hard work....but I am getting right on it...

Encouraging Dcon ....what is this a schoolyard? LOL Well sometime it is.:D

He speaks TRUTH blame it on the Holy Spirit


UnderGrace,

"Put your money where your mouth is"

You're Always encouraging Dcon.
You like him too, huh? I have so much competition.

Sooo...

Why don't YOU explain Hebrews 10:26-37 since I am, in your opinion, not able to?

Come on UG.
DO IT !!

Don't just tell me I'm wrong...
PROVE IT.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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DUAL USAGE!

A new one.

So Jesus and Paul also spoke in DUAL USAGE.

I know what you mean dear Dcon.

BUT THEY DIDN'T SPEAK IN "DUAL USAGE" all the time.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, EXPLAIN VERSES INSTEAD OF JUST TELLLING ME I'M WRONG.

cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

How come the "workers for" could explain verses but you can't?

Because you don't like what they say?


COME ON.
YOU and UNDERGRACE get your heads together and explain Hebrews 10:26-37

Maybe the TWO OF YOU TOGETHER could do this???
For those who deny that Christ SANCTIFIES us positionally in Christ! The same who deny that sanctification is DUAL in usage....the same who believe their works save and that salvation can be lost or forfeit...all false I might ADD.....

After saying above, "SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them" (which are offered according to the Law), then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL." He takes away the first in order to establish the second. By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. <----PAST TENSE

YOU do understand PAST TENSE RIGHT....WE HAVE BEEN SANCTIFIED....ONCE FOR ALL!!!!!
 
Apr 30, 2016
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How much deliberate sinning does it take?

If you think this is what scripture is teaching, you can be sure you have NOT used correct exegesis.

All of Hebrews is the assurance of the full sufficiency of the sacrifice of Jesus as compared to the animal sacrifice of the

Hebrews which did not cover willful sin ...if you read the Old Testament you will see there was not sacrifice for willful sin.

By the sacrifice of Jesus all sins are covered...HIS WORK is necessary and completely sufficient
Why are you and some here so concerned with how much sin it would take to become lost?
I'm not aiming to find out!

My love for Jesus keeps my sins to a minimum.
By this I mean that if I did not love Him, I'd be sinning a whole lot more.

Going to check if you explained Hebrews 10...
 
Jun 5, 2017
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Some folks need to learn the difference between "law" and "traditions"......neither makes one more holy or spiritual.
However when folks break the "law" you expect punishment. When folks break "tradition", you might ruffle a few feathers but you don't normally get condemned for it.
Why argue over the traditions of men?

The thread is that we are justified by FAITH AND NOT BY WORKS.
Galatians 3 is clear that some would try and keep the law and abandon grace and faith in what Jesus did for our salvation.
Hi Ariel,

Just commenting on what is highlighted above. Punishment indeed. God's Word teaches that if someone continues in known sin, the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). Except referring to the traditions of man in this case regarding God's 7th Day Sabbath which has been replaced by the tradition of Sunday worship, which has no basis in God's Word, Jesus says this......

Mat 15:3-9,
But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou might be profited by me; And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draws nigh unto me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Jesus himself tells us that if we keep the commandments of man over the word of God we break God's commandments and will have to stand before God on the day of Judgment for(1) not believing His Word and (2) breaking His Law. There is not one verse in the entire bible that says we no longer need to keep the 7th Day Sabbath a holy day. The question remains who do we obey God or man?

God bless

DCON..... sometimes I like cake :rolleyes:
 
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