Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I find that there are some that says what Jesus taught before the cross is OT & isn't useful.
There are others that say Jesus' actions before the cross are the same.
These are ploys to keep us from looking at Jesus & his teachings for guidance, for He contradicts their false teaching.
Remaining in trust IS a necessity, because the just shall LIVE by faith.
If any of our teaching confuses you, cast it all aside & pray, asking the Father to clarify His truth to you, for God is faithful that promised.
Let God be true, & every man a liar.
There are others that say Jesus' actions before the cross are the same.
These are ploys to keep us from looking at Jesus & his teachings for guidance, for He contradicts their false teaching.
1 Peter 2
21For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, 22WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH; 23and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;Remaining in trust IS a necessity, because the just shall LIVE by faith.
If any of our teaching confuses you, cast it all aside & pray, asking the Father to clarify His truth to you, for God is faithful that promised.
Let God be true, & every man a liar.
I will be completely honest with you brother. The thing that sometimes confuses me is why you let yourself get dragged into the melee and stop walking in the Spirit to get down and roll around in the mud. By your teaching, I am okay. By your example, I sometimes become confused and sad.
E
I don't agree that to abide/continue in faith means faith comes from myself...He gives everyone a measure of faith, a talent. If we weren't expected to use and grow it, He would be wrong to take it back from the man who buried it and did not grow it. This sounds to me like you do away with abiding/continuing in faith. It sounds to me like in order to protect the doctrine of OSAS, you must do away with too much of what He said. There are always verses "in tension to" and you have to include them too. You can't do away with continuing in trust/abiding by calling it a "work", can you? GM by the way!
If faith came from God, how could you lose it? Did God fail?
Only if faith comes from self can it fail and "fall away"
I do not have to do away with anything God says to believe my salvation is secure in Him, It is based on him
1. He died for me
2. He drew me after I started to seek him and helped me understand the true gospel
3. His work and his promise I deemed trustworthy, so I placed my trust in him
4. He adopted me
5. He gave me the right to be called his child
6. He washed me and made me white as snow
7. He justified me
8. He redeemed me
9. He atoned my sin
10, He took what was contrary to me and nailed it to the cross
11. He perfected me
12. He gave me his seal
13. He made me alive
14. He will grow me as I learn to trust him more
15. If i walk astray, He will come find me, I know his voice, because I am his sheep. and I will gladly follow
16. He will chasten me when I get out of line, Who can withstand the lords chastening
17. He will give me the desires of my heart if my heart is aligned with his
18. He will protect me if the desires of my heart are not aligned with his ( I know he knows what is sbest, I may not be happy about it at the time, but I trust him)
19. He will complete the work he started in me, and make sure it is finished.
No, to me, to say salvation can be forfiet is to you must do away with prety much ALL he said.. and make his promises depend on the power of self. not on the power of himself.
1. My God is omniscient, I can not fool him into thinking I have faith when I do not
2. My God knew me and all my sin (past present and future to me) were future when he died, He paid for them all not just some, When I came to him, I asked forgiveness for all. not just my past. Because I was not proud enough to think I would never think again, it would be worthless for me to just trust God to forgive me of my past sin, and not ask him to forgive my future also.
I can go on and on and on. But no, I can not agree with you on this subject, I am sorry.
E
No,,
If this is what she has been asking all along, she would not be arguing with me.. and been attacking people like me for so long now.
and she would not be attacking the thought that one can have eternal security in christ, Because she would understand, God has perfected forever those who are in the process of being sanctified, and dGod doe snot fail.
All who trust WILL WORK.. it is not a question of if, or they must, THEY WILL. Why? Because God has sperfected forever THOSE WHO ARE BEING SANCTIFIED.
If this is what she has been asking all along, she would not be arguing with me.. and been attacking people like me for so long now.
and she would not be attacking the thought that one can have eternal security in christ, Because she would understand, God has perfected forever those who are in the process of being sanctified, and dGod doe snot fail.
All who trust WILL WORK.. it is not a question of if, or they must, THEY WILL. Why? Because God has sperfected forever THOSE WHO ARE BEING SANCTIFIED.
I agree and this brings up the thought - just what is fruit? In the minds of people it can be different. To some Pentecostal churches I have seen - if you stop going to their church - you are in apostasy and not bearing fruit.
Other denominations may have a "different criteria" but they are cut from the same cloth in their "fruit assessment".
Another aspect that goes with "fruit inspectors" is just what is fruit? And what does this fruit look like. What if as an analogy a Christian is like an orange tree?
An orange tree is still an orange tree even though it doesn't produce the fruit we want to see in the timeframe we think it should. What happens if this orange tree dies before it has had a chance to be fed properly to grow up to be able to produce the fruit of a ripe orange?
To some works-based people - you would have to display 50 oranges in order to prove you are a real orange tree ( saved ) - to others you need 100 oranges in order to be a proved orange tree. ( saved ) So, this fruit inspection thing is not viable ..that's for God to look at people to determine if they are in Christ or not.
A person could have love and kindness as a fruit in their life but be addicted to some pills or alcohol which they are continuing to struggle with in their life or outbursts of anger..etc.
We religious people love to "categorize" sin - especially the ones that we have never done before and then look down on those that do have a problem that we don't. We say that they are "sinning" - and they are but so are we in other areas too. We all have the flesh to deal with and none of us behaves perfectly in our behavior.
The people that don't have a struggle with alcohol ( or basically anything that they themselves don't struggle with in their flesh that others do ) will condemn the ones that do have these struggles in the flesh and declare they don't have the fruit and thus are not saved. This is Pharisee-ism at it's finest.
Does the orange tree stop being an orange tree even though it dies without having fruit that we think "proves" it was an orange tree to begin with?
An orange tree is still an orange tree even before it yields the manifested growth of the fruit we call an orange.
What if Christians were like that? What if we fed them messages about the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness in Christ so that they could grow? Then they would produce an abundance of fruit.
I say let's preach and teach the grace of Christ in their lives so that they have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him!