Not By Works

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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You act like "religion" is a dirty word.

"Life of Christ in us" is not an analogy. What it sounds like is the Hindu concept of Arman or some type of "spiritual" possession of a spirit that calls itself Christ.I

t doesn't explain how the Holy spirit actually works in a belivers life. What does the Holy spirit chastens people of it not their sins?

I grew up bilingual and it's not my grasp of the English language that is lacking, it's your explanation of your term "life of Christ in us".

I understand the new creation, what I don't understand is what you believe happens when someone sins?

What I also don't understand is that you don't understand that the Bible talks of proper personal righteousness and the need to live godly lives.
let me jump in here- I think that when grace speaks of religion of being bad, he means, in my opinion, stuff like saying a believer has to be prefect, how if one does not tithe , they are going to hell, that if you don't believe in a pre-trib rapture you are going to hell, if you drink a beer, you are going to hell, if you are not winning souls for Christ, you have no salvation assured to you................... I could go on and on about some of the things that have come out of some pastors and churches that do nothing but shove folks away from Christ. that is non-biblical " religion ", and grace7 has not use for it ( I feel the same way ).
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Again the whole phrase "life of Christ in me"

Anyway I do agree that people sin because they don't understand God's reality and love.

However they may understand God will provide but are just spoiled brats who want more and then become bullies and steal from others to get more.

"Confess what God says about me is true"

Does that include admitting that Holy spirit chastened you of your sin and that you need to REPENT?

How else would you know you sinned and be able to admit that what you did was WRONG?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Hey junior....I am in a different time zone and just seen this at 7:51 AM Australia time and I did answer in post 27679 which makes you a liar interjecting your mouth where it should not be...so now you owe me an apology....see if you can swallow your all knowing pride!!
yet they stick up for him. Sad..

you always answere questions from from what I havseen,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
EG belongs to a home based church movement...he should disclose this when he speaks....

Our experience has never been good with these home based church movements...they are usually formed because of hurt, offense and bitterness towards what they define as a traditional church...and most claim they were never allowed to be the gift they were called to be....invariably we see them become what they left because mature spiritual leadership is lacking and most are still bound by hurt, offense and bitterness....and their self calling manifests and destroys lives...

1. There are over 6000 people active in my chuch which bases its function to resemble th NT church
2. I have seen more peopl heals from addiction (alcohol, drug and sex) at this church than any other church I have seen,
3. You know nothing of my church and r what we believe, and you need to keep your opinions to yourself, because you have no idea what my chuch is about r what it believes, (you have not even prove you know what I believe, let alone a local church of thousands)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Yet you say the holy spirit does NOT chasten people of sin, and I noticed that even in this post you avoid saying it.

The Gospels don't speak of how Jesus individually rebukes people of their sin. Jesus corrects doctrine.

Also I would hope those earthy fathers who follow Jesus, discpline their kids as God does.

My goodness Ariel!

I have posted this truth about "awake to righteousness and sin not " at least 20x times now but will again in my next post for those viewers that have not seen it.

There is absolutely no scripture that says that the Holy Spirit convicts the believer of sin.

This is like the belief that there were 3 wise men at Jesus's birth - that is a commonly held belief but it is a man-made tradition as there were not 3 wise men at Jesus's birth.

I could say that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation but I would hope that someone would ask for some scripture for that belief.

You are free to believe what you want. I'll stick with what Jesus said the role of the Holy Spirit is.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
Does he chastens us for sin or does He let us suffer the natural consequences of sin, and ultimately He would be point us back to Jesus and His grace?



Nonsense again. I have said many times that the Father chastens His children. He doesn't do it like our earthy fathers. He does it by His word.

Look to Jesus and His earthly ministry and see how He chastised the disciples and you will see how the Father does us too.


It is not a "blind eye" to sin. It's in Beholding Christ and what He has done and believing that truth. Then it is standing in His armor.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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What I don't understand is why people always talk about hellfire and not God's refining fire?
Purify my heart
Let me be as gold and precious silver
Purify my heart
Let me be as gold, pure gold

Refiner's fire
My heart's one desire
Is to be holy
Set apart for You, Lord
I choose to be holy
Set apart for You, my Master
Ready to do Your will

Purify my heart
Cleanse me from within
And make me holy
Purify my heart
Cleanse me from my sin
Deep within


[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-yyrYYgv0Dw[/video]

God does the refining, we have to seek after that, even if it is painful.
It can be painful for a plethora of reasons.
I also ask God to reveal to me the things in my life that I am not aware that impure as well.

Proverbs 17:3
3 The refining pot is for silver and the furnace for gold,
But the Lord tests the hearts.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I have shown you, you just don't see. Its a new day and I don't find it profitable to "show" you something you refuse to SEE.
you did not show me anything, about the closest you did was say I ,misunderstood him, which you would be wrong, and you did not prove how I Did that anyway.

its a new day and. See things will stay the same

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
He isn't advocating legalism but your blindness doesn't allow you to see that. I wash my hands of it.

Yes he is, just like Peter Jenz was, and your blindness does not allow you t see it (not that that proves anything, but as we said, I treat people as they treat others)

please do wash you hands, because it will continue as long as he continues to promote it and attack people
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Yeah G777 now you sound like Fran ABOUT eternal security demanding for scriptures that show your doctrine (that the Holy spirit chastens God's children of their sins) false that have already been given.

The holy spirit chastens God's children of their sin. You can believe it or reject it but don't lie to yourself and say God never revealed it.

Adding "unbeliever" to bible verses dos nothing but promote delusions and false doctrines.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Hi Grace,

Yes I assumed that's what you meant, but I feel like there are times we especially need to use biblical terms so there's no confusion. Not everyone would understand that about sap. I wasn't exactly sure if you were referring to the Holy Spirit or not.

In our bible studies we're taught to use biblical terms ........ use the words that Jesus and our apostles used so that there's no confusion. :)

For the very reason we are righteous is the reason we confess our sins because they are unrighteous and we get dirty by hanging on to them. We know it and God knows it. When we do unrighteous acts (sin) we are confessing them and by doing so, the power of God and the grace of God cleanses us when we obey Him in confession because Jesus bought our forgiveness with His blood. But it's at the moment of confession that we receive forgiveness of sins we commit after the new birth.

Spurgeon says this: That is the point; and he, who says that he has no sins, will not confess them. He, who believes himself to be perfect, cannot enjoy the blessing described in this 9th verse. To deny that we have any sin, is to walk in darkness, and to show we are without the light which would reveal our sin to us, kind if we are walking in darkness we cannot be in fellowship with God.

But to see sin in ourselves from day to day, humbly to confess it, and mourn over it, is to walk in the light; and walking in the light, we shall have fellowship with God who is light. “If we confess our sins,” — The text means just this - Treat God truthfully, and he will treat you truthfully. Make no pretensions before God, but lay bare your soul, let him see it as it is, and then he will be faithful and just to forgive you your sins and to cleanse you from all unrighteousness.



you do not back up, anything here with scripture.

and the biggest point, that you or Spurgeon miss or missed, is wrote in Acts 10: Peter and Cornelius

4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from graceGalatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free


walking in who light, if your cut off, and still remains , in a no context of scripture.

do you read ,anyone else post on this forum,
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Does he chastens us for sin or does He let us suffer the natural consequences of sin, and ultimately He would be point us back to Jesus and His grace?
Jesus always chastened or rebuked the disciples for their hardness of heart and their unbelief. Personally I think He lets the natural consequences of sin take over and finally some of us see the foolishness that we are doing as the prodigal son parable shows.

The Holy Spirit is always teaching us about Christ and the things of God. He always points to the work and person of Christ.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Hi Desertsrose,

I agree with this principle except for the need to confess sins in order to be righteous once we have received the gift of righteousness when we hear the gospel message of Christ. Christ alone is our righteousness and there are tons of scriptures that speak to that truth.

Also the "sap" is the life of Christ which is in us by means of the Holy Spirit...:)
..
would that be sup or sap , you write here. and would that be spiritual food or human food.


.20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.Revelation 3


sup[SUP]1[/SUP]
sʌp/
verbNORTHERN ENGLISH[COLOR=#878787 !important]dated[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#878787 !important]verb: sup; 3rd person present: sups; past tense: supped; past participle: supped; gerund or present participle: supping[/COLOR]

  • 1.
    take (drink or liquid food) by sips or spoonfuls.
    [COLOR=#878787 !important]"she supped up her soup delightedly"[/COLOR]




noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important]noun: sup; plural noun: sups[/COLOR]

  • 1.
    a sip of liquid.( the last supper)
    [COLOR=#878787 !important]"he took another sup of wine"[/COLOR]

    • NORTHERN ENGLISHIRISH
      alcoholic drink.
      [COLOR=#878787 !important]"the latest sup from those blokes at the brewery"[/COLOR]





 
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UnderGrace

Guest
Yes I agree, yet when I am believing correctly about the character of God and what He says is true then my heart is not hardened.

Jesus always chastened or rebuked the disciples for their hardness of heart and their unbelief. Personally I think He lets the natural consequences of sin take over and finally some of us see the foolishness that we are doing as the prodigal son parable shows.

The Holy Spirit is always teaching us about Christ and the things of God. He always points to the work and person of Christ.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Christians have not been properly taught what happened to them when they received Christ and believed.

That they have died on the cross with Christ and that they have been resurrected to newness of life and now are a new creation - "Behold - all things are new." 2 Cor. 5:17

And all these things are of God.

They have died - been crucified with Christ on the cross and their real life is hidden with Christ in God now.

Not knowing this truth we try to teach people to deny themselves when in fact they should be embracing who they really are now in Christ - that new creation which has been created in righteousness and holiness.

Paul says: Awake to righteousness and sin not.

Awake to who you really are now and that righteousness that is in the real you will shine forth and manifest the life of Christ to others.

The Greek word for "awake" means " to come to one's true self, to sober up to be who you are"

In my opinion - We have watered down the gospel so much that we have unwittingly taken away it's power to transform us because of erroneous teachings and instead we have created a religion called Christianity which actually denies the work of Christ and thus His grace from operating fully in our lives.

Instead of relying on the grace through faith in Christ's work and His life in us - we replace Him with rules and commandments to follow that "appear" to mimic the description that Christ and Paul give as to what the fruit of an exchanged life looks like.

The accurate preaching and teaching of the finished work of Christ is needed for the Christian to have the proper nutrients to have their mind renewed to the realities of us "being in Christ and He is in us".

When our minds are renewed to the truth of Christ's work on the cross and resurrection - this stops us from being "double-minded" and unstable.

We grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and are thus transformed in our outward behavior that reflects our true self in Christ by having our minds renewed to truth. Rom. 12:2
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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God shapes the iron like a master blacksmith....if it becomes dull He casts it in His refining fire and burns off the dross.

Even if some people deny it God uses the Holy Spirit to chastens His kids of their sins and reveal who they should be.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-difference-between-tempering-annealing-normalizing-and-quenching
Hi Ariel, Very useful link thank you. I have seen This process of quenching in my past; maybe I should pray Hoy Spirit make us all as strong as stainless steel. :)

[FONT=q_serif]Quenching:[/FONT]
[FONT=q_serif]"Quenching is the process of heating the material above the recrystallization temperature and cooling it suddenly in a water bath or oil bath or in polymers. Type of quenchant depends upon the application."[/FONT]
 
Aug 15, 2009
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Some people have an evangelical anaphylaxis event in their minds when they hear that the Holy Spirit does not "convict" the believer of sins because we have been taught differently.

The Holy Spirit convicts/convinces the believer of the righteousness that is in us which indirectly points to the "works of the flesh" that we need to repent of ( change our minds on how we view them ).

For example things like malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ.

His life that is in us because of righteousness causes the works of the flesh to drop off us as we "become" who we really are in Christ in our new man - the new creation.

This is "walking by the spirit" which will stop the flesh from fulfilling "it's" desires.

The word " convict/reprove/convince/expose" in question has many meanings attached to it as well.

It is only used 1 time in KJV as "convict"....it is used more often with the word "to reprove/rebuke/convince/expose"...the word needs to be looked at in the "context" that it is used...

It is a revealing of things.....to the world the Holy Spirit reveals/convinces/expose their sin of unbelief in Jesus..

To the believer He reveals/convinces/expose that they are the righteousness of Christ because He went to the Father to stand as an Advocate.

John 16:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world ( unbelievers ) concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] concerning sin, because they ( unbelievers ) do not believe in Me;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you ( believers ) no longer see Me;

1 John 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

[SUP]2 [/SUP] and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.


Here are a few examples of the same exact word used in scripture...as one can clearly see....this word has many uses depending on the context.

1 Corinthians 14:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

Titus 1:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Matthew 18:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

John 8:46 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP] Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

So, we can clearly seen the Greek word translated once in the KJV as "convict" really means to expose, reveal, convince people of something.

 
Nov 22, 2015
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At the risk of using another analogy and getting chastised for it - I will do it anyways as the benefits outweigh the consequences.

This is not New Age stuff - this is an analogy from the movie called the "Invisible Man". People that have seen the movie will understand the relation to it and "putting on Christ."

We are saved by the life of the Lord Jesus Christ which is in us in our new creation. We are now learning how to walk by the spirit - which is our spirit in union with Christ by the Holy Spirit ( whom Jesus said would be in us forever - John 14:16 ).

Romans 5:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Living by the flesh does not stop making us a new creation in Christ. It makes us deceived by sin and distorts our view of the Lord's love and grace towards God Himself, others and ourselves.

I have found the very same thing happening in my life. The more I see Christ and what He has done - and the more I agree with His work - the more He becomes manifested in my life and the things of the flesh just have fallen off like dead leaves on a branch.

Transformation is really the emerging new man that is in Christ being manifested in our bodies while we are here on this earth.

This transformation of what already is in us in Christ in our new creation ( It is not called a "new evolution" ) can be seen by man as our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us. Rom. 12:2

We are simply "being" who we already are when we "put on Christ".

The new man in Christ is like the "Invisible Man" in the movie - when he put clothes on, people could then see him. We put on Christ and people see the new man in Christ manifested and God gets glorified.

This all happens by grace through faith in what Christ has done and we participate in it with Him for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He will be faithful to us. Phil. 2:13


As we learn to walk by the spirit instead of the flesh - then we experience God's kind of life in our lives and others will experience the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.


I am off for the rest of the day - play nice with each other....:)..
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Hi Desertsrose,

I believe in using biblical terms as well but also Jesus taught by using creation as an analogy. Jesus would say - "consider at the lilies of the fields, the birds of the air, consider how a seed grows in the ground....etc"

Paul said in Romans 1 that the invisible things of God can be clearly seen in what has been made. He said that God can be understood through what was made ( Rom. 1:20 )

I firmly believe in confessing sins - confess simply means to "agree with". I am in agreement to "confessing" everything that is contrary to the life of Christ but not to remain righteous.

I believe this false teaching that we need to confess sins "in order" to be righteous again ( which is based on a mis-application of 1 John 1:9 as John was dealing with the gnostic belief back then and addressing that belief) has done more harm to keep Christians from seeing the new creation in Christ and keep us in babyhood. It has diluted the work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

There are a few threads on 1 John 1:9 that speak to this subject. I realize that our traditional Christian teaching has perpetuated this belief that the Christian needs to confess to get righteousness back and to be cleansed again but it is 100% false in my opinion and scripturally can be proved to be inaccurate.

Ironically most bible teachers say that we shouldn't create a doctrine from one verse and yet that is what is done in 1 John 1:9. It is the blood of Jesus that cleanses us from all sin because we are in the light. A Christian doesn't go in and out of the light because Christ is in us and He is the light. 1 John 1:7

1 John 1:9 is the only place in the New Covenant where this "confessing in order to be to be cleansed from all unrighteousness" occurs and it is addressing the gnostic thought that they had no sin and thus they make God a liar. 1 John 1:10

1 John was written in about 96 AD. All of Paul's epistles are before that and there is absolutely no mention of this practice of Christians "confessing in order to get back righteousness and to stay cleansed".

Anyway - I know there are different religious beliefs about this subject but I can tell you that I have not confessed sins "in order to keep righteous" for years since I saw the truth of the new creation and Christ's work on the cross and resurrection - since then I have lived a godlier life than I ever imagined.

In the old "confessing in order to be righteous or cleansed again" days I was constantly stuck in a cycle of sin and confessing , sin and confessing - what a horrible life that was.

Now that I know the truth of Christ's work - I am finally free and the "sap" of His life - by the Holy Spirit within bears witness of this freedom and the sins of the past have dropped off like dead leaves on a tree

( Notice I didn't say that I don't confess sins because I do - but not to be righteous again or to be cleansed - for that I simply believe the gospel message in the gift of righteousness )
take it up with your post from, yesterdays posts.

Life in the Spirit, is not life ,in the logos word,
you were never to confess sin,(gentile) in the first place. if you had context to scripture. why are you worried about other religions , when you cannot maintain your own faith.


he wrote, this in romans. also

notice confess your sins to a law, you do not have, acts 15 what law, did the gentile get. if you quote paul in romans , this would line up with acts 15, but since you have no intent of finding truth of scripture .



.14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.Romans 2:


Romans 8: Life in the Spirit
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and deathRomans 8: Life in the Spirit