Not By Works

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Nov 12, 2015
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lol.. Look at what you are saying,

If a person does not abide and grow, he will be cut off. (lets take you out of the equation, and look at the verse in question, You say this is possible and if a person does this, they will go to hell)

If this is true, does this not put the onus on the person and not in God, who promised he will never fail?

I am talking about the verse only.. Not you..



I have NOT said it is possible. And I don't think that's how we are to see the verse.

In fact, I have said He has never decreased my trust - He has done nothing but GROW it more and more.

First of all, it is God who has said it, not me.
Secondly, He didn't say it to scare me. He said it so I would see His faithfulness at growing my faith and become MORE trusting, not less.
 
May 12, 2017
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That`s it EG...You have hit the nail on the head:)...It`s the first time i have resisted the devil, yes he fled...Oh my...Praise God...Now this will be part of my growing, knowing that the truth sets us free...I truly believe i have been set free today, i feel like scales have fell off my eyes lol...Thank you...xox...
This is because you are committed to the first part of what the verse admonishes us to do...

Submit therefore to God. that is the whole differnce in resisting the devil...


James 4.7
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

I am encouraged by your posts and see that you are such a ray of light...continue to draw near to God and he will draw near to you...
 
Nov 22, 2015
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That was warfare you were in. He gained you the victory and you have grown in trust of all He promised. He gave you the ground the enemy of your soul was trying to take back by getting you to fear again instead of trust Him more and more.

Whenever we begin to fear again instead of trust and believe that we are forgiven and loved, we are in the warfare. That IS what spiritual warfare is. It's a clamoring that seeks to get us to fear instead of believe and trust. Our trust in Him is how we overcome. So it stands to reason that our trust is what would be strongly come at.

Amen!

Resting in what Christ has already done is our spiritual warfare.


Resting in what Christ has already done is our obedience of faith.


Resting in what Christ has already done is our faith in action.

Jesus is our true Sabbath rest.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,757
4,120
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This is because you are committed to the first part of what the verse admonishes us to do...

Submit therefore to God. that is the whole differnce in resisting the devil...


James 4.7
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

I am encouraged by your posts and see that you are such a ray of light...continue to draw near to God and he will draw near to you...
Thank you Meggido...xox...
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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Rom 11:22  BeholdG1492 thereforeG3767 the goodnessG5544 andG2532 severityG663 of God:G2316 onG1909 (G3303) them which fell,G4098 severity;G663 butG1161 towardG1909 thee,G4571 goodness,G5544 ifG1437 thou continue inG1961 his goodness:G5544 otherwiseG1893 thouG4771 alsoG2532 shalt be cut off.G1581


 

cut off:



G1581


ἐκκόπτω






ekkoptō






ek-kop'-to






From G1537 and G2875; to exscind; figuratively to frustrate: - cut down (off, out), hew down, hinder.

G1537

G1537
ἐκ, ἐξ
ek    ex
ek, ex
A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out (of place, time or cause; literally or figuratively; direct or remote): - after, among, X are, at betwixt (-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above), for (-th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, X heavenly, X hereby, + very highly, in, . . . ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since, X thenceforth, through, X unto, X vehemently, with (-out). Often used in composition, with the same general import; often of completion.
Total KJV occurrences: 917










Total KJV occurrences: 11







G2875:

~


G2875


κόπτω






koptō






kop'-to






A primary verb; to "chop"; specifically to beat the breast in grief: - cut down, lament, mourn, (be-) wail. Compare the base of G5114.








Total KJV occurrences: 8

For further illumination compare with all the other scriptures mentioned.













 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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Okay have to go again. I stayed too long and will never get these chairs finished.
Besides, if I stay, Rosemary will just keep making me weep tears of joy and I'm all out of kleenex.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
What are you seeing?
Psalms 34:18 - The LORD [is] nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
_______

Ezekiel 36:26 - A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh

____________^

Matthew 5:8 - Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

_________

Hebrews 6

6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.



what do you see?

a message no one can miss?

or am i crazy
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
This is good. So even though someone has had trouble with forgiveness and bitterness...God will not stop working on them too. PTL
If it's the same God that chisled away at me for 30 years to bring to the point of forgiving my sexual abuser (Christian foster dad) then yes he will not stop.

I used to go and visit my foster parents cause I loved my Foster mum over those years. She became aware of it but he promised to stop, turns out he was sent down for similar offence when running a children's home. In fact the CID turned up and when they asked me to step outside my foster mum pulled me aside an pleaded not to say anything.

Truth is i I was a rabbit caught in the headlights. At least at this place I was clothed and fed. The other alternatives were go back to my mother who threw me out at 14, she was a drunk hardly around and I had to look after 2 brothers, she used to beat and spread vicious rumours about me, like I had AIDS, or do I go to a children's home?

What a pick of 3 options for a 15 year old.

I chose to stay put because for my foster mother and my foster dad promised to stop.
Alas he did not but I couldn't tell her.

Boy was it hard when I visited. I would avoid him like the plague, he was nasty and contentious to me.

My wife used to tell me that I needed to forgive him but I would not listen.
When this man was dead then I would be free of him.

I used to whistle the song by Chris Rhea "The road to hell on the way down"

Any way we were meant to go down for a week. I rung up and made an excuse that I couldn't. She was upset.

When I put the phone down and I am going to tell the truth here, this is no lie.

My wife looked at me came over and gave me a hug then went off to tend our kids.

I sat in the quiet Then God said to me

"Bill let us go down next week and deal with this"
I said no, in fact I said it 4 times, I even said "When this bastard is dead then I will be free and will not deal with it"

Then God said with a bit of a sigh "Oh Bill what part of US are you not getting, I'm coming with you, it's you and me, I will help you, now will you go?

I said yes

So off we went and on the way down one of my kids asks mummy what tune I was whistling?

For 4 tortuous days I sat with this man and asked God to help me forgive him.
My mind was working overtime, memories flooding back, speaking in my mind forgiveness, rebuking Satan.
When we left I was exhausted, spiritually, emotionally and physically as a result of nightmares.

A short time after this I got a call from a hospital at work. He was on his deathbed could I go down? I said no because I was busy at work. Then again God said "Let us go down"

My wife and I went down, sat down by his bedside. "He looked at me and asked me to sort out his estate" I said yes.
We were there for 4 days, I held his hand and prayed for him, spent days mopping his brow.
After 4 days we left and he hadn't died.
He died a week later. I got the call from my foster brother, he suffers with severe dyslexia so couldn't deal with the estate.

So my wife and I went down to sort of the funeral and deal with estate. As we crossed the Tamar bridge into Cornwall and got over that bridge my wife said to me "You didn't whistle Road to Hell"

I sorted out his estate, arranged the funeral, came back home then actually went down for the funeral and came back home.

This process took 9 months.
As I contemplated this I stumbled across this following quote.

"To forgive is to set the prisoner free, only to realise that prisoner was you"
Then God said to me, "You would never have been free when he died unless you forgave him before but now you are free"

What a great God we have, who says

Romans 8:28-29


28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Sorry for the long post everyone but I just wanted to share my experiences of how God fulfils his promises to his children.

Also I just want to say that my biological mother and I now have a wonderful relationship and now actually say we love each other. She never said that to me in the first 35 years of my life.
Furthermore she now believes in Jesus. Not bad for a family whose heritage is Muslim. That's why she rejected me because she fell pregnant outside of marriage to an infidel and I was the result.

What a wonderful, patient, kind and loving God we have.

I am glad he knows what he is doing.

Ps what's PTL
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,186
29,488
113
The post #30858 was 19 hours ago not even a full day, good grief; Let the music play I say!
Yes, close to four hundred posts have been made on this thread since I posted twenty hours ago, and that is not even a full 24 hours yet :)
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
sorry stone

maybe i posted it in a funky order


its probably my bad


i guess between all the verses i posted

seemed to me to spell out

man looks at works because WE cant KNOW hearts

and God looks at our spirit/heart


and if we have even so much as tasted the Holy spirit


it seems God has already started something HE will finish
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
If it's the same God that chisled away at me for 30 years to bring to the point of forgiving my sexual abuser (Christian foster dad) then yes he will not stop.

I used to go and visit my foster parents cause I loved my Foster mum over those years. She became aware of it but he promised to stop, turns out he was sent down for similar offence when running a children's home. In fact the CID turned up and when they asked me to step outside my foster mum pulled me aside an pleaded not to say anything.

Truth is i I was a rabbit caught in the headlights. At least at this place I was clothed and fed. The other alternatives were go back to my mother who threw me out at 14, she was a drunk hardly around and I had to look after 2 brothers, she used to beat and spread vicious rumours about me, like I had AIDS, or do I go to a children's home?

What a pick of 3 options for a 15 year old.

I chose to stay put because for my foster mother and my foster dad promised to stop.
Alas he did not but I couldn't tell her.

Boy was it hard when I visited. I would avoid him like the plague, he was nasty and contentious to me.

My wife used to tell me that I needed to forgive him but I would not listen.
When this man was dead then I would be free of him.

I used to whistle the song by Chris Rhea "The road to hell on the way down"

Any way we were meant to go down for a week. I rung up and made an excuse that I couldn't. She was upset.

When I put the phone down and I am going to tell the truth here, this is no lie.

My wife looked at me came over and gave me a hug then went off to tend our kids.

I sat in the quiet Then God said to me

"Bill let us go down next week and deal with this"
I said no, in fact I said it 4 times, I even said "When this bastard is dead then I will be free and will not deal with it"

Then God said with a bit of a sigh "Oh Bill what part of US are you not getting, I'm coming with you, it's you and me, I will help you, now will you go?

I said yes

So off we went and on the way down one of my kids asks mummy what tune I was whistling?

For 4 tortuous days I sat with this man and asked God to help me forgive him.
My mind was working overtime, memories flooding back, speaking in my mind forgiveness, rebuking Satan.
When we left I was exhausted, spiritually, emotionally and physically as a result of nightmares.

A short time after this I got a call from a hospital at work. He was on his deathbed could I go down? I said no because I was busy at work. Then again God said "Let us go down"

My wife and I went down, sat down by his bedside. "He looked at me and asked me to sort out his estate" I said yes.
We were there for 4 days, I held his hand and prayed for him, spent days mopping his brow.
After 4 days we left and he hadn't died.
He died a week later. I got the call from my foster brother, he suffers with severe dyslexia so couldn't deal with the estate.

So my wife and I went down to sort of the funeral and deal with estate. As we crossed the Tamar bridge into Cornwall and got over that bridge my wife said to me "You didn't whistle Road to Hell"

I sorted out his estate, arranged the funeral, came back home then actually went down for the funeral and came back home.

This process took 9 months.
As I contemplated this I stumbled across this following quote.

"To forgive is to set the prisoner free, only to realise that prisoner was you"
Then God said to me, "You would never have been free when he died unless you forgave him before but now you are free"

What a great God we have, who says

Romans 8:28-29


28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Sorry for the long post everyone but I just wanted to share my experiences of how God fulfils his promises to his children.

Also I just want to say that my biological mother and I now have a wonderful relationship and now actually say we love each other. She never said that to me in the first 35 years of my life.
Furthermore she now believes in Jesus. Not bad for a family whose heritage is Muslim. That's why she rejected me because she fell pregnant outside of marriage to an infidel and I was the result.

What a wonderful, patient, kind and loving God we have.

I am glad he knows what he is doing.

Ps what's PTL
Just saw this...

This is what I would call the works of Holy Spirit that we do. That which the world has no power to accomplish...only through Jesus.

Thanks for this... I hope we can rest now from what happened. I know I feel better.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Psalms 34:18 - The LORD [is] nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
_______

Ezekiel 36:26 - A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh

____________^

Matthew 5:8 - Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

_________

Hebrews 6

6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.



what do you see?

a message no one can miss?

or am i crazy
Some read this as commiting sins. Others read this as going back to law from grace. I agree with the latter.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
sorry stone

maybe i posted it in a funky order


its probably my bad


i guess between all the verses i posted

seemed to me to spell out

man looks at works because WE cant KNOW hearts

and God looks at our spirit/heart


and if we have even so much as tasted the Holy spirit


it seems God has already started something HE will finish
I misunderstood your intent then. I thought you were fearing the last part of the scripture.

Also...I don't think you are crazy. For a young'un...you are very wise. :)
 
Last edited:
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I have NOT said it is possible. And I don't think that's how we are to see the verse.

In fact, I have said He has never decreased my trust - He has done nothing but GROW it more and more.

First of all, it is God who has said it, not me.
Secondly, He didn't say it to scare me. He said it so I would see His faithfulness at growing my faith and become MORE trusting, not less.

Now. Am even more confused,

do do you believe a person who is born again can fall away (lose salvation) if he or she does not abide and continue to grow or not?

I know what God said, and I do not think he said people will fall away and b sent to hell who have been saved,

i am tryi g to find out what you think he said, you appear to be saying he said we can fall away after salvation and end up in hell, am I right or wrong?
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Now. Am even more confused,

do do you believe a person who is born again can fall away (lose salvation) if he or she does not abide and continue to grow or not?

I know what God said, and I do not think he said people will fall away and b sent to hell who have been saved,

i am tryi g to find out what you think he said, you appear to be saying he said we can fall away after salvation and end up in hell, am I right or wrong?
Proverbs 24:16
16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Proverbs 24:16
16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
sorry for butting in

just seemed to me that verse specifically relates