Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
H

HisHolly

Guest
#381
#381
Wow!! You are grouchy!! Beating servants while the Master is away?
dcontroversal said:
here I will highlight it for you since you missed it the first time....

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Again, James is referenced with no context......SHOW ME YOUR FAITH..........!

How many pieces of fruit does it take to identify an apple tree...........and as a matter of fact an apple tree is an apple tree 2 to 4 years before it yields ONE PIECE of FRUIT....!

You guys need to get through your heads that works do not save or keep saved as that is a once for all act....after that it is all reward or a lack thereof based upon service

and EVERY BELIEVER into JESUS and his faith has at least 1 (ONE) work already in their life.......

This is the WORK OF THE FATHER...that YOU BELEIEVE ON HIM WHOM HE HATH SENT.......wake up!
Click to expand...
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#382
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
3,700
113
#382
dcontroversal said:
here I will highlight it for you since you missed it the first time....

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Again, James is referenced with no context......SHOW ME YOUR FAITH..........!

How many pieces of fruit does it take to identify an apple tree...........and as a matter of fact an apple tree is an apple tree 2 to 4 years before it yields ONE PIECE of FRUIT....!

You guys need to get through your heads that works do not save or keep saved as that is a once for all act....after that it is all reward or a lack thereof based upon service

and EVERY BELIEVER into JESUS and his faith has at least 1 (ONE) work already in their life.......

This is the WORK OF THE FATHER...that YOU BELEIEVE ON HIM WHOM HE HATH SENT.......wake up!
Click to expand...
I myself never try to reconcile Paul with James. James is an epistle written to the twelve tribes of Israel at a time after the church is outta here.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#383
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#383
preacher4truth said:
Good morning brother dcontroversal,

As one who believes the Scriptures state faith to be a gift of God; Romans 12:3, and, that faith is external, coming from the Word of Christ and is thus apparently not inherent; Romans 10:17, and, that lastly in this short reply, this belief is the same power that raised Christ from the dead, showing further it not to some inherent ability that we exercise; Ephesians 1:19.

Salvation is never by any exercise, exertion or determination of man. Since we believe salvation is all of God, then we must leave it there: John 1:13; James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:1ff; Romans 9:16; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; Ephesians 2:8; Galatians 1:15 &c.

Soli Deo Gloria!
Click to expand...
Obviously bro.....if you know anything about me you know I believe and teach it is ALL JESUS, HIS FAITH, HIS WORK HIS WAY......that is why NO man can GLORY or boast in what they have done........

Many will come before Him boasting....as a matter of fact there are not less than a few on this site......and they will be told to depart because they pushed a working for heretical false salvation which has no power to save.....
 
Crustyone

Crustyone

Senior Member
#384
Mar 15, 2015
697
50
28
#384
I admit to not reading all of these posts, but I still would like to add my two cents. If i am in a hospital bed and a Christian brings me a bible and some tracts and tells me about the saving grace of Jesus and I say baloney, and he leaves. I am not righteous or saved. Then I start looking at the tracts and checking things out in the bible and suddenly a light goes on and I believe, then I have attained righteousness, but as yet I am unsaved. Why? Because the flesh can overpower the spirit. The truth in the saying "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak" can mess up the saving grace. I need to prove to God that I love Him more than I love myself by telling others of my faith and possibly being ridiculed or even physically harmed. This is where Romans 10:9-10 comes in, telling us that it is by profession of faith that we are saved not just by belief.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#386
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#386
dcontroversal said:
Again, James is referenced with no context......SHOW ME YOUR FAITH..........!

How many pieces of fruit does it take to identify an apple tree...........and as a matter of fact an apple tree is an apple tree 2 to 4 years before it yields ONE PIECE of FRUIT....!

You guys need to get through your heads that works do not save or keep saved as that is a once for all act....after that it is all reward or a lack thereof based upon service

and EVERY BELIEVER into JESUS and his faith has at least 1 (ONE) work already in their life.......

This is the WORK OF THE FATHER...that YOU BELEIEVE ON HIM WHOM HE HATH SENT.......wake up!
Click to expand...
Amen.....even James uses the life of Abraham and Rahab as "examples" of having faith with a corresponding work or action.

Both of them did a "one time thing" or "work" to prove their faith was "alive". Abraham did not continually try to sacrifice Isaac and Rahab did not continually hide the spies.

Although James is talking about doing things to help those in need when we look at things in context when he is describing faith and works - the principle of having a corresponding action to our faith is still valid.

So, I see no conflict whatsoever with Paul and James in being saved by grace through faith alone in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

To be born-again and sealed with the Holy Spirit is the one time act of our faith in believing the message of Christ when we hear it - this is for eternal salvation.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

If we get this truth wrong in our thinking - we create a man-made religion of "works for salvation" which nullify the true grace of God from operating in our lives like it should.


 
Last edited:
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#387
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#387
Crustyone said:
I admit to not reading all of these posts, but I still would like to add my two cents. If i am in a hospital bed and a Christian brings me a bible and some tracts and tells me about the saving grace of Jesus and I say baloney, and he leaves. I am not righteous or saved. Then I start looking at the tracts and checking things out in the bible and suddenly a light goes on and I believe, then I have attained righteousness, but as yet I am unsaved. Why? Because the flesh can overpower the spirit. The truth in the saying "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak" can mess up the saving grace. I need to prove to God that I love Him more than I love myself by telling others of my faith and possibly being ridiculed or even physically harmed. This is where Romans 10:9-10 comes in, telling us that it is by profession of faith that we are saved not just by belief.
Click to expand...
No offence, but the bible does not support that view bro......your quote was given concerning the saved, immersed disciples of Jesus in the garden when he asked them to stay awake and pray with him.......Paul speaks to this as well concerning this born again spirit that is still bound in a dead body of sin and the conflict that takes place in a believer AFTER salvation.....of course the workers for reject this because it contradicts their false message of no sin and working fro salvation.....
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#388
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#388
Grace777x70 said:
Amen.....even James uses the life of Abraham and Rahab as "examples" of having faith with a corresponding work or action.

Both of them did a "one time thing" or "work" to prove their faith was "alive". Abraham did not continually try to sacrifice Isaac and Rahab did not continually hide the spies.

Although James is talking about doing things to help those in need when we look at things in context when he is describing faith and works - the principle of having a corresponding action to our faith is still valid.

So, I see no conflict whatsoever with Paul and James in being saved by grace through faith alone in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

To be born-again and sealed with the Holy Spirit is the one time act of our faith in believing the message of Christ when we hear it - this is for eternal salvation.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

If we get this truth wrong in our thinking - we create a man-made religion of "works for salvation" which nullify the true grace of God from operating in our lives like it should.
Click to expand...
All excellent points......the simplicity that is in Jesus....HEAR--->BELIEVE---->SEALED for all eternity.....not one verse teaches one can be unsealed after being sealed....quite the contrary...

Whatsoever GOD does it is EVERLASTING....nothing added or taken away from it...

English Standard Version
I perceived that whatever God does endures forever; nothing can be added to it, nor anything taken from it. God has done it, so that people fear before him.

New American Standard Bible
I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.

King James Bible
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I know that all God does will last forever; there is no adding to it or taking from it. God works so that people will be in awe of Him.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#389
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#389
dcontroversal said:
All excellent points......the simplicity that is in Jesus....HEAR--->BELIEVE---->SEALED for all eternity.....not one verse teaches one can be unsealed after being sealed....quite the contrary...

Whatsoever GOD does it is EVERLASTING....nothing added or taken away from it...

English Standard Version
I perceived that whatever God does endures forever; nothing can be added to it, nor anything taken from it. God has done it, so that people fear before him.

New American Standard Bible
I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.

King James Bible
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I know that all God does will last forever; there is no adding to it or taking from it. God works so that people will be in awe of Him.
Click to expand...
Amen...I like that - the simplicity that is in Christ Himself. (What is the scripture reference for those scriptures you put up?..thanks )

Paul talks about this "simplicity" that is in Christ and how satan beguiles us through subtilty or craftiness - he does this by distorting our unrenewed minds to the truths of the finished work of Christ.

A religious stronghold in the mind is very deceptive as it has the "appearance" of good but denies the power of God to effect a real transformation outwardly in our behavior and lives.

A religious stronghold of the mind tries to create a behavior modification program but the true life in Christ is a transformation as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

The #1 way our minds are deceived - is the "works-for-salvation" false doctrine that nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives. And we live by His grace and life alone.

2 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.


 
Last edited:
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#390
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#390
Grace777x70 said:
Amen...I like that - the simplicity that is in Christ Himself. (What is the scripture reference for those scriptures you put up?..thanks )

Paul talks about this "simplicity" that is in Christ and how satan beguiles us through subtilty or craftiness - he does this by distorting our unrenewed minds to the truths of the finished work of Christ.

A religious stronghold in the mind is very deceptive as it has the "appearance" of good but denies the power of God to effect a real transformation outwardly in our behavior and lives.

A religious stronghold of the mind tries to create a behavior modification program but the true life in Christ is a transformation as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

The #1 way our minds are deceived - is the "works-for-salvation" false doctrine that nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives. And we live by His grace and life alone.

2 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.


Click to expand...
Ecclesiastes 3:14 bro......and to say one can lose salvation denies this very verse which states that WHATSOEVER it is that God does it is eternal....including saving someone.....
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#391
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#391
dcontroversal said:
Ecclesiastes 3:14 bro......and to say one can lose salvation denies this very verse which states that WHATSOEVER it is that God does it is eternal....including saving someone.....
Click to expand...
Thanks..( and you are such a heretic to actually believe in what Christ has done for you. You would be the first to be burned at the stake if that was still allowed )

It's interesting that religion always burns people on a wooden pole that is lifted up - just like our Lord was lifted up on His pole - the cross.

 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#392
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#392
I think it would be wise were you to first understand what has been posted before alleging anyone is saying works save.

If your first motive for posting is to find error, this would make you a judge. Now you are judgeing your brethre providing you believe Jesus Christ.

It would be good for you to stop this practice and understand before alleging I think in terms of works for my salvation.

Faith without works is not faith.


dcontroversal said:
Again, James is referenced with no context......SHOW ME YOUR FAITH..........!

How many pieces of fruit does it take to identify an apple tree...........and as a matter of fact an apple tree is an apple tree 2 to 4 years before it yields ONE PIECE of FRUIT....!

You guys need to get through your heads that works do not save or keep saved as that is a once for all act....after that it is all reward or a lack thereof based upon service

and EVERY BELIEVER into JESUS and his faith has at least 1 (ONE) work already in their life.......

This is the WORK OF THE FATHER...that YOU BELEIEVE ON HIM WHOM HE HATH SENT.......wake up!
Click to expand...
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#393
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#393
JaumeJ said:
I think it would be wise were you to first understand what has been posted before alleging anyone is saying works save.

If your first motive for posting is to find error, this would make you a judge. Now you are judgeing your brethre providing you believe Jesus Christ.

It would be good for you to stop this practice and understand before alleging I think in terms of works for my salvation.

Faith without works is not faith.
Click to expand...
I think you should take your own advice....serious.....and my reference to James and the twist of James by most who quote or reference James is correct.....

Faith saves period.....eternally...nothing added or taken away from it period....

This is the works of the FATHER....to BELEIEVE on HIM who HE SENT<------you can comprehend that right.....

What part of that do you fail to comprehend.........

Remembering without ceasing your WORK OF FAITH..... <----How hard is that......
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#394
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#394
John 3:16 according to the "workers for" salvation crew.....

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him, does many wonderful works, is immersed, is a member of hickory stick church, feeds the poor, back flips down the isle while speaking in tongues and healing 66 sick folk and never sinning shall not perish, but have eternal life.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#395
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#395
More verse interpretations from the 'workers for" salvation.....

"He who believes in the Son, does many wonderful works, speaks in tongues, is slain in the spirit, jumps through 666 religious hoops, completes the 7 sacraments, is member of IMAWORKER Church, never sins, and helps Jesus because he is weak has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
 
Last edited:
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#396
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#396
As long as you demonstrate you do not understand the posts to which you reply, take the advice and love your brethren as tehy love you.

I have never posted that we can do anything to save our souls other than believe Jesus Christ.

Now when I post that faith is dead without works this is in reference to faith, and faith is what leads us to grace in Jesus Christ.

Understand our good works are Jesus Christ working from within each of us, otherwise how is we have reward in the Kingdom?

There is no reward for any who bury their talent in the soil to be made filthy while awaiiting the return of our Lord and Savior, just the outer blackness.

dcontroversal said:
Again, James is referenced with no context......SHOW ME YOUR FAITH..........!

How many pieces of fruit does it take to identify an apple tree...........and as a matter of fact an apple tree is an apple tree 2 to 4 years before it yields ONE PIECE of FRUIT....!

You guys need to get through your heads that works do not save or keep saved as that is a once for all act....after that it is all reward or a lack thereof based upon service

and EVERY BELIEVER into JESUS and his faith has at least 1 (ONE) work already in their life.......

This is the WORK OF THE FATHER...that YOU BELEIEVE ON HIM WHOM HE HATH SENT.......wake up!
Click to expand...
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#397
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#397
JaumeJ said:
As long as you demonstrate you do not understand the posts to which you reply, take the advice and love your brethren as tehy love you.

I have never posted that we can do anything to save our souls other than believe Jesus Christ.

Now when I post that faith is dead without works this is in reference to faith, and faith is what leads us to grace in Jesus Christ.

Understand our good works are Jesus Christ working from within each of us, otherwise how is we have reward in the Kingdom?

There is no reward for any who bury their talent in the soil to be made filthy while awaiiting the return of our Lord and Savior, just the outer blackness.
Click to expand...
I have never implied the bolded....so...you should take your own advice again.....and pay attention to all that is written bro
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#398
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#398
dcontroversal said:
I have never implied the bolded....so...you should take your own advice again.....and pay attention to all that is written bro
Click to expand...

Stop deflecting and address the posts. If you simply do not understand what has been posted, that is not a shame. If you are just replying without reading the entire posts wo which you reply, that is not done by the children of God.
 
Test_F_i_2_Luv

Test_F_i_2_Luv

Senior Member
#399
Jan 24, 2009
1,601
31
48
#399
garee said:
We are saved by and therefore through the grace that comes by the work of Christ's faith working in us. So we are saved by works, just not that of our own-selves.
Click to expand...
We are saved by and therefore through the grace that comes by the work of Christ's faith working in us. Christ's death on the cross is the "work" that saves us.

The works Christians do, as a result of a transformed life, is Christ working through us. These works don't save us, but they do determine the extent of our heavenly reward beyond salvation.
 
K

know1

Senior Member
#400
Aug 27, 2012
3,100
180
63
#400
DiscipleDave said:
OK, i understand that what i said above YOU disagree with, because it does not line up with what you THINK is the TRUTH, But can you now do the Godly thing? You accuse me of being a deceiver, a preacher of a different gospel, So surely you can show something, anything, that i have said above that is contrary to Scriptures. Surely if you are going to accuse me of these things, you will back it up with Scriptures? Or do you now falsely accuse me, because there are NO Scriptures which is contrary to anything that i have said above, but is only contrary to What YOU believe is the TRUTH? Why is it, with this generation i have challenged over and over and over again, for anyone to show me any verse that is contrary to Scriptures and this generation Can't do so, why is that?
Click to expand...
Been there, done that, and said that very same thing. They argue without scripture and try to attack your character. I tried to get just one person, on more than one thread, to give me just one scripture to back up what they believe, and they couldn't do that. They go on to say how they believe the bible. WHAT BIBLE!!!



DiscipleDave said:
What is that to me? It is not my calling to CONVINCE anyone of the Truths which i teach, which i testify comes from Him. It is merely my calling to present it to you, which i have done, which pleases Jesus Christ. If you reject the Truth, you do not reject me, but Him who told me those Truths is who you reject.

It's like a Boss telling me to go tell Bob that if he is late one more time, he is going to be Fired. So i go to Bob and tell him what the Boss said. Bob, because he does not like me, nor does he believe the message, refuses to believe the Boss told me to tell him that. Does Bob's belief change the TRUTH that the Boss did tell me to tell Bob that? What is it to me, if Bob does not believe it? That's on Bob. i have done what the Boss asked me to do. It is not my fault if Bob does not believe the message that the Boss told me to tell him. So Bob is late the next day also, and the Boss Fires him. Bob does not understand why he is being fired. And the Boss will say, didn't Dave tell you that if you were late again you would be fired? Bob responds, yeah, but i thought he was lying, i didn't know he was telling the Truth. The Boss says "What is that to me, if you did not believe him? Go your way, you have been warned, and you refused to hear it."

What i tell you comes from the Boss. What is it to me if you do not believe it does. Am i to get all upset because you and as you say EVERYONE on this site, thinks what i teach does not come from God? Nay, i have told you the TRUTH, and you reject it, because the TRUTH is not in you. Have i said anything contrary to Scriptures? NO. i have said nothing but "Stop obeying satan", Start only obeying Jesus Christ, and LOVE ONE ANOTHER. All things which Scriptures plainly teach also, but because those TRUTHS are not in you, they have no place in your heart. This generation loves to sin, and refuses to cease from them, all the while living in sins, thinking they are Heaven bound. i have done nothing but warn you to cease from obeying satan, but because this generation loves to sin, and will refuse to hear anyone who teaches to stop sinning, the Truth is rejected. All been warned.
Click to expand...
Jesus said, "this people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
Again Jesus said,

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Those who are of God will hear the truth, those who are not of God will reject it, and by rejecting the truth, they have rejected Jesus.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.