Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Brace yourself, folks. The 'not really' doctrines of OSAS are about to be unleashed. Along with the usual berating, degrading, and insults.

Sure...it is insulting to say Jesus is weak, cannot keep his promises and needs your help to fulfill his word.....it is equally insulting to degrade, blaspheme and equate God's Holy Spirit and work to a bowl of lasagna....your right....you should get right with God and apologize to all for such treatment and words against the God of heaven......

 

[PHart]

Folks......the bolded is as false as can be, not of God and is as blasphemous as it comes....God states clearly sealed UNTO the day of redemption and there are no but's, if's or and's added...do not believe the above bolded lie....as far as the scripture....it is taken out of context and the loss of salvation hung upon it.......taken in the whole it is not discussing one who is saved and then loses salvation.......the only thing that results in one NOT BEING SAVED to begin with is a lack of saving faith into the work of JESUS.....which is a one off event with continuing present results.....it is clear from ALL accounts that the book of the living was written before creation was cast down and has every man, woman and child in it, those who fail to acknowledge saving faith into Christ are removed

And where in that verse does it say thy are unsealed.....? it doesn't

How does one have the Spirit but not be in the kingdom? John tells us that those outside of the kingdom are the wicked damned:

"14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying." (Revelation 22:14-15 NASB)

These are NOT Spirit-sealed people, lol.

 

[dcontroversal]

How does one have the Spirit but not be in the kingdom? John tells us that those outside of the kingdom are the wicked damned:

"14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying." (Revelation 22:14-15 NASB)

These are NOT Spirit-sealed people, lol.

First......the verse you cite does not say anything about having the Spirit yanked from anyone....and why don't you explain to us which city this is, when it comes down, after which judgment and then open your eyes.......and.....what could possibly be the types of people listed.....serious.....

 

[VCO]

Sounds interesting, but actually Paul talks about the seal of the Spirit being like a down payment, a promissory note of sorts for the remainder to be delivered later: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G728&t=KJV

The point is, 'sealed' does not mean by definition 'not able to be unsealed' as is so often implied by OSAS folks. It simply means sealed, period. It does not have the added definition of 'not being able to be unsealed'. We are the ones who have added that connotation to the word.

NO it means the Bride is guaranteed HE WILL RETURN FOR US. You cannot kick the HOLY SPIRIT OUT, and NEVER WILL WANT TO, because HE changes our spiritual being to zealously LOOK for our BRIDEGROOM to come for us.

Amazing, absolutely NOTHING gets THROUGH. You are unteachable.


EVEN MORE AMAZING, "The point is, 'sealed' does not mean by definition 'not able to be unsealed' " , you are the only one in my entire life that I have seen or heard make that statement.

 

[dcontroversal]

NO it means the Bride is guaranteed HE WILL RETURN FOR US. You cannot kick the HOLY SPIRIT OUT, and NEVER WILL WANT TO, because HE changes our spiritual being to zealously LOOK for our BRIDEGROOM to come for us.

Amazing, absolutely NOTHING gets THROUGH. You are unteachable.


EVEN MORE AMAZING, "The point is, 'sealed' does not mean by definition 'not able to be unsealed' " , you are the only one in my entire life that I have seen or heard make that statement.

AMEN.........totally agree.....the only one I have ever heard degrade and blaspheme the Holy Spirit and his work while equating it to a bowl of left over lasagna....we can grieve the Spirit by our actions, deeds and even like Peter on the night Jesus was taken, but the sealing is SURE and unto the DAY of redemption.....end of story.

 

[PHart]

NO it means the Bride is guaranteed HE WILL RETURN FOR US. You cannot kick the HOLY SPIRIT OUT, and NEVER WILL WANT TO, because HE changes our spiritual being to zealously LOOK for our BRIDEGROOM to come for us.

Amazing, absolutely NOTHING gets THROUGH. You are unteachable.

Give us some scripture to teach us, lol. You have no scripture that defines 'sealed' as 'unable to be unsealed'. I have showed many scriptures about the danger of losing salvation. Yet I'm the unteachable one.

 

[PHart]

...the sealing is SURE and unto the DAY of redemption.....end of story.

This is not the Marines. You can not dogmatically shout the church into submission to your doctrine.

 

[PHart]

First......the verse you cite does not say anything about having the Spirit yanked from anyone....and why don't you explain to us which city this is, when it comes down, after which judgment and then open your eyes.......and.....what could possibly be the types of people listed.....serious.....

The Tree of Life, dcon. What is it that you are not getting here?

 

[dcontroversal]

This is not the Marines. You can not dogmatically shout the church into submission to your doctrine.

You have to be a member of a group that actually teaches the truth the be identified as A church-->NOT THE church.....and your lasagna dogma does not make the cut...and all the verses you have pushed to teach the loss of salvation....do not teach the loss of salvation.....more cracker jack theology on your part......

 

[PHart]

You have to be a member of a group that actually teaches the truth the be identified as A church-->NOT THE church.....and your lasagna dogma does not make the cut...and all the verses you have pushed to teach the loss of salvation....do not teach the loss of salvation.....more cracker jack theology on your part......

Don't you have ANY scriptural ammo to shoot in this discussion? Just getting upset and yelling and bullying and insulting people into submission isn't going to cut it.

 

[dcontroversal]

The Tree of Life, dcon. What is it that you are not getting here?

Last time I checked Jesus has already given eternal life unto ALL who have genuinely believed....as in born again into the kingdom of GOD.....you know...everlasting life, eternal life SPIRITUALLY NOW.....and why do we need that if we are saved and born again....maybe your missing something yourself....like for example....why would the NATIONS need the leaves for healing?

AND AGAIN.....show me the words I will UNSEAL YOU in the verse you cite......not there.....no matter how much you twist it....

 

[dcontroversal]

Don't you have ANY scriptural ammo to shoot in this discussion? Just getting upset and yelling and bullying and insulting people into submission isn't going to cut it.

We all have used many scriptures to prove your false dogma....do we compare the sealing of the spirit to a bowl of lasagna.....what book, chapter and verse did you get that quote from....and by the way...who is upset, yelling and bulling....are you in 2nd grade or something....?

 

[PHart]

Last time I checked Jesus has already given eternal life unto ALL who have genuinely believed....as in born again into the kingdom of GOD.....you know...everlasting life, eternal life SPIRITUALLY NOW.....and why do we need that if we are saved and born again....maybe your missing something yourself....like for example....why would the NATIONS need the leaves for healing?

Did you forget? We only have a down payment of the eternal life to come:

"29Jesus said, “Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel’s sake, 30but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life." (Mark 10:29-30 NASB)

We get the sum total of eternal life at the resurrection......if we have faithfully trusted in the blood and not denied Christ to the very end. Believers do not have it all now. Only a taste of it. Even Vine's explains what the down payment guarantees as being subject to conditions. Not the condition of work, but the condition of continued trust in Christ.

AND AGAIN.....show me the words I will UNSEAL YOU in the verse you cite......not there.....no matter how much you twist it....

How does one LOSE his part in the Tree of Life in the kingdom and keep the Holy Spirit? Do Spirit filled/sealed people dwell outside of the kingdom where John says the wicked damned are?

14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

18I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book." (Revelation 22:14-15,18-19 NASB)

 

[stonesoffire]

I suppose if a believer's unfaithfulness is them not having led anybody to Christ, and, therefore, they do not have anybody on the other side of the Judgment to be a reward for them, then yes, it could be talking about that. But that is still clearly distinguished from denying Christ, for which Christ will deny you.

Where do you see anywhere in the scripture, that a believer "must" have someone on the other side as a reward? Not saying that we won't, but this sounds like gunfights notching their holster. Not all do the work of the Evangelist. Even a cup of cold water will be rewarded. A real cup, or a spiritual cup.

Did you get this on your own, or is there actually a fellowship teaching this stuff?

Ive been around many different ministries but never heard anything you said here.

 

[PHart]

Where do you see anywhere in the scripture, that a believer "must" have someone on the other side as a reward? Not saying that we won't, but this sounds like gunfights notching their holster. Not all do the work of the Evangelist. Even a cup of cold water will be rewarded. A real cup, or a spiritual cup.

Did you get this on your own, or is there actually a fellowship teaching this stuff?

Ive been around many different ministries but never heard anything you said here.

I'm quite aware that you have not heard this. Our seminaries pump out parrots who merely teach what they've been taught. Some do it quite well and insightfully, but it's still just what they have been taught is the truth.

The reward for the Christian in 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 is whoever they labor to establish in the building and field of God who makes it through the coming Judgment by fire. Those people will be the laborer's reward in the kingdom. This is not my teaching. This is plainly spelled out in the Bible. But the church can't see it because it has been taught a different doctrine of rewards.

 

[PHart]

Where do you see anywhere in the scripture, that a believer "must" have someone on the other side as a reward?

Depends on your calling. Our accountability is proportianate to what God has entrusted to us. Paul was entrusted with much, that's why he said 'woe to me if I don't preach the gospel'. But you and me? Not so much. But even the slightest encouragement or teaching or insight can result in someone being our reward on the other side......provided they endure to the very end and don't get burned up in the Judgment.

 

[stonesoffire]

The Calvinist who claims God purposely made him to be a believer, not an unbeliever, and that nothing can alter that fate.

Am not a Calvinist, but I can say that God knows the end from the beginning, because it's in the Word, and I can look at my own life and say if He hadn't purposely intervened, I'm sure I would be dead and in hell.

We just cannot pierce the darkness by our own means. Only light can do that.

 

[PHart]

Am not a Calvinist, but I can say that God knows the end from the beginning, because it's in the Word, and I can look at my own life and say if He hadn't purposely intervened, I'm sure I would be dead and in hell.

We just cannot pierce the darkness by our own means. Only light can do that.

We are all in agreement with this. No argument here. Only God makes it possible for us to believe and be saved. We can't make it happen on our own.

What I resist is the interpretation of predestination that God purposely made some to be believers and others to be unbelievers and nothing can change that destiny you've been assigned.

 

[Snoozy]

dcon u know i dont beleive in works salvation. but i still wanna know what are the leafs of healing for the nations for? i often wonder who are the folks outside new jerusalem, the kings who go in and bring their tribute.
it cant be just israel because it says nations plural.

 

[stonesoffire]

Depends on your calling. Our accountability is proportianate to what God has entrusted to us. Paul was entrusted with much, that's why he said 'woe to me if I don't preach the gospel'. But you and me? Not so much. But even the slightest encouragement or teaching or insight can result in someone being our reward on the other side......provided they endure to the very end and don't get burned up in the Judgment.

Only flesh gets burned. Spirit is eternal. Enduring is our first hot burning love. Will it remain through our trials.