Not By Works

eternally-gratefull · Dec 9, 2017

Paul said we sin when we are tempted. We are tempted when are reminded of sin. Tell a child not to get in the cookie jar and you have tempted him to sin. The law does the same.

Seek aftert the things of the spirit. That is how we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Not by law.

Understanding that you can not live up to Gods standard (perfection) does not mean you see your self as sinful. It is just realizing reality.

dcontroversal · Dec 10, 2017

beastslayer1970 said:

I do not disagree here at all. We do know Jesus took 3 years to make his disciples. We also know 12[not Judas] were divinely promoted to Apostle after he ascended into heaven.

The woman at the well is great example of sharing the gospel and making converts, but not 1 on 1 intentional discipleship.
In fact, the rest of her fellow Samaritans told her they did not believe any more based on her witness, but because they heard for themselves he was the Messiah.

John 4:[SUP]41-42

41 [/SUP]Many more believed because of His word; [SUP]42 [/SUP]and they were saying to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.”

Discipleship cannot be whittled down to just follower, the word means much more than simply following or follower.

obviously....a disciple is a learner of one's doctrine....I always say a true disciple is a learner and practioner of one's doctrine.....obviously one must be born from above by faith before they can be discipled...

TruthTalk · Dec 10, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Disciple

The Great Commission - Matthew 28:18-20
“All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with youalways, even to the end of the age.”

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Definition: Disciple: a learner, student or pupil.
Secular: Someone who accepts and helps spread the teachings of a famous person. Merriam-Webster
Biblical: Disciple; Gk. transliteration; mathetes, phonetically 'math-ay-tes', (noun/m). a learner, disciple, pupil.
Greek: mathētḗs; from math - "The mental effort needed to think something through." - properly, a learner,
a disciple, a follower of Christ who learns the doctrines of scripture and the lifestyle they require; someone
catechized with proper instruction from the bible with its necessary follow-through, life applications. (Strongs)

TruthTalk · Dec 10, 2017

[video=youtube;6FHzDgIEWEc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FHzDgIEWEc[/video]

Mountain Faith "I'm On The Battlefield"

Wish I could spend more time with y'all - about 5 to 10min at the computer and my leg is cooked. I'm doing all the right things for acute sciatic nerve damage so the Doc's tell me. Like VCO, I'm on the mend but the old plow is slow....

Have a wonderful Lords day, God bless!

stonesoffire · Dec 10, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Right. That's what I was saying too. Law doesn't apply to a new creation man for we are Spiritual. We have been raised with Him in new life.

We need a revelation of what we have, being raised up in His ressurrection life.

Or at least I know I do.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 10, 2017

stonesoffire said:

Amen, knowing what w have “In Christ” is the most important truth we must have.

Endoscopy · Dec 10, 2017

Seohce said:

Not by works( NOT VOID OF WORKS) but by grace thru FAITH.(eph 2:8-9)
Justified by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.(james 2:24)
Faith that Worketh in Love.(gal 5:6)
Faith and Action Working TOGETHER.(james 2:22)

Salvation is by GRACE through FAITH and NOT BY WORKS(of ourselves).(#1)

It is NOT BY FAITH ALONE(#2)but it WORKS in LOVE(#3)thus FAITH & LOVE(works of obedience(romans 1:5) manifested in ACTION and in TRUTH)(1john 3:16-18)are working TOGETHER.(#4)

2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE: THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.

THE FIRST PHASE OF SALVATION IS TO BELIEVE IN THE ONE THAT GOD HAS SENT AND IN HIS WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.
(john 6:28-29, eph 1:13,romans 10:8-17).
THROUGH THIS FAITH WE WILL RECEIVE THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT(the Helper/Counsellor)(gal 3:14, john 14:16-17)

John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the WORKS GOD REQUIRES?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to BELIEVE in the one he has sent.”

THE SECOND PHASE IS THE WORKING OUT OF THAT SALVATION AND REMAINING/CONTINUING IN THE FAITH TO THE END THROUGH OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL AND COMMANDMENTS, DOING GOOD WORKS. WALKING AS JESUS DID AND BEING A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST WHO DOES THE WORKS BEING LED BY THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST WHO IS THE HEAD.

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, HIS BODY OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has FAITH in me WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father

1 Corinthians 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, iF YOU HOLD FIRMLY TO THE WORD I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Romans 1:5 Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the OBEDIENCE that comes from FAITH.

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always OBEYED—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—CONTINUE TO WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.

Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—WHETHER YOU ARE SLAVES TO SIN, WHICH LEADS TO DEATH, OR TO OBEDIENCE, WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?

2 Corinthians 9:13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the OBEDIENCE THAT ACCOMPANIES YOUR CONFESSION OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.

Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to PREPARE God’s people FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the FULLNESS of Christ.

Romans 2:7 To those who by persistence in DOING GOOD seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Galatians 6:9 Let us not become weary in DOING GOOD, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

1 Timothy 6:18-19 Command them TO DO GOOD, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.

Hebrews 5:8-9 Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered and, once made PERFECT, he became the SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION for all who OBEY HIM.

Matthew 19:16-17 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do TO GET ETERNAL LIFE?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.”

Matthew 25:21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful SERVANT You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. COME AND SHARE YOUR MASTER’S HAPPINESS!’

WE ARE SANCTIFIED BY THESE TRUTHS AS IT IS WRITTEN:
John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

James 1:22 BUT BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD AND NOT HEARERS ONLY deceiving your own selves.

Romans 2:13 (For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God: that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS; and His commandments are not grievous.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth.

Ephesians 3:19 and to know this LOVE that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all THE FULLNESS OF GOD.

THE THIRD PHASE OF SALVATION IS SALVATION FROM GOD’S WRATH. THIS IS DEPENDING ON GOD’S MERCY AND JUDGMENT(JUSTICE).

Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

1 John 4:17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because IN THIS WORLD WE ARE LIKE HIM.

Matthew 12:36-37 But I tell you that MEN WILL HAVE TO GIVE ACCOUNT ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

John 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father,(ref:john 14:12) where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment,(ref:hebrews 10:26-27) because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Romans 2:5-10 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? FOR WE WILL ALL STAND BEFORE GOD’S JUDGMENT SEAT.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, NOT TO BEAR SIN, BUT TO BRING SALVATION to those who are waiting for him.

1 Peter 4:17-18 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY the gospel of God? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the SINNERS.

John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who WORKS for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.

John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.

John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

Simple concept about posting on forums. The longer the post the fewer people will read it. You seem to love the long drawn out posts. Also you seem to love posts bordering on heresy if not actual heresy.

Please use the KISS method. Keep It Simple Stupid. I worked my career in electronics and software. They are complex fields and those who avoided the KISS method created hard to maintain products. Going into theology the same principles apply. Your rambling disjointed posts are very easy to ignore.

Endoscopy · Dec 10, 2017

preacher4truth said:

Are you saying the law is not in effect? That is contrary to Jesus saying that the law will not pass away until heaven and earth are no more. That was my point to Magenta. Prove me wrong rather than make a fallacious ad hominem attack. Demonstrate my distorted gospel. Here is a short version of the gospel (good news).
Sin entered the world.
God allowed sacrifices to take away people's sin.
God sent Jesus to be the Lamb of God to take away sins for those who accept Him.

Facts about the law.
Paul said without the law he would not know what sin is.
Sin is transgression of the law.
Without the law there is no sin.
With no sin Jesus died on the cross in vain.

Where is the flaw in this post? I stand on what Jesus and Paul stated.

Muzungu256 · Dec 10, 2017

lol ur still going on about the law of moses being in effect????? its over man. u sometimes must accept defeat u see. i have changed my mind many times and admit it here u see we all make mistakes

Endoscopy · Dec 10, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

I stand on what Jesus said about the law. Has heaven and earth disappeared? Has the rapture happened? Are you setting aside the law?

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Endoscopy · Dec 10, 2017

Why do people ignore what Jesus said about the law of God.
Basic concept.
Sin is transgression of the law.
Without the law there is no sin.
Paul said this.

Romans 7 New International Version (NIV)

Released From the Law, Bound to Christ
1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

The Law and Sin
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Endoscopy · Dec 10, 2017

Keep in mind that the 10 Commandments are part of the law!!!

BillG · Dec 10, 2017

Endoscopy said:

What's the other part?

Endoscopy · Dec 10, 2017

Keep in mind that the 10 Commandments are part of the law!!!

Matthew 22:36-40New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

BillG · Dec 10, 2017

Endoscopy said:

Is that not the 10 summed up in two.

1-4 and 5-10?

Deuteronomy 6:5
5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

Leviticus 19:18
18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

Endoscopy · Dec 10, 2017

BillG said:

It is contained in the Torah aka Pentatauch aka Genesis through Deuteronomy. Over 600 rules. Read those books to find them.

Endoscopy · Dec 10, 2017

BillG said:

Misreading what he said. Those two commandments are the basis for the rest of the commandments as well as all the 600 plus laws in the Torah!!

BillG · Dec 10, 2017

Endoscopy said:

So we have to obey the 613?

BillG · Dec 10, 2017

Endoscopy said:

I have read them thanks

BillG · Dec 10, 2017

Endoscopy said:

Misreading what?

Not By Works

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