Not By Works
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R
It's a metaphor.
The member of the body that needs cut off is the person who causes stumbling to little ones who believe in Jesus.
That's what the law says.
Jesus was pointing out to them they do not really keep the law.
Besides this being a reference to the righteousness of Christ given to a person being greater than any lawful effort to be righteous, Jesus is also showing us that we have to be better at obedience than they were. They weren't as obedient as they thought they were. Almost without exception, the things Jesus is showing them come out of the law and the prophets. He's showing them they don't do them. They know the law better than anyone. They should see this, and probably did. That's why they killed him. Out of anger and jealousy that they really weren't as righteous as they thought they were, and way less than Jesus.
The thrust of the passage seems to be that he is showing them they did not keep the law. The law they were arrogantly sure they kept and which they thought made them righteous in God's sight.
The member of the body that needs cut off is the person who causes stumbling to little ones who believe in Jesus.
That's what the law says.
Jesus was pointing out to them they do not really keep the law.
Besides this being a reference to the righteousness of Christ given to a person being greater than any lawful effort to be righteous, Jesus is also showing us that we have to be better at obedience than they were. They weren't as obedient as they thought they were. Almost without exception, the things Jesus is showing them come out of the law and the prophets. He's showing them they don't do them. They know the law better than anyone. They should see this, and probably did. That's why they killed him. Out of anger and jealousy that they really weren't as righteous as they thought they were, and way less than Jesus.
The thrust of the passage seems to be that he is showing them they did not keep the law. The law they were arrogantly sure they kept and which they thought made them righteous in God's sight.
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Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Faith is not defined as works. Faith is faith and works are works.
I've seen works-salvationists write a blank check with the word "obey" here from Hebrews 5:9, then fill in whatever amount of works they feel are necessary to receive eternal life based on the merits of their "alleged" obedience.
So in Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost?
Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him "after" they have been saved through faith by keeping (Greek word "tereo" - watch over, guard, keep intact) His commands and practicing righteousness (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.
Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works (Matthew 7:22-23). *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.
I've seen works-salvationists write a blank check with the word "obey" here from Hebrews 5:9, then fill in whatever amount of works they feel are necessary to receive eternal life based on the merits of their "alleged" obedience.
So in Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost?
Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him "after" they have been saved through faith by keeping (Greek word "tereo" - watch over, guard, keep intact) His commands and practicing righteousness (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.
Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works (Matthew 7:22-23). *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.
Then you are living in sin. (By your logic)
I sin every day, Ralph.
As so do you.
But you are under the impression that God grades everyone's progress on some grand sliding scale. That if I sin 10 times a day, and you sin 5 times a day, that makes you more righteous, or proves you're a believer and I'm not.
One sin, or a thousand, it makes no difference if any are attributed to us.
Should a believer go out and live like the devil?
Of course not.
But no matter our sins, we are not held accountable. They are gone, never to be remembered again, as far as the east is from the west. Your "progress scale" is absolutely meaningless in the eyes of God, because we have the very righteousness of Christ imputed to us. We will never be condemned for even our future sins, for to condemn us is to condemn Jesus.
We are, and will remain, as sinless as Jesus is.
I sin every day, Ralph.
As so do you.
But you are under the impression that God grades everyone's progress on some grand sliding scale. That if I sin 10 times a day, and you sin 5 times a day, that makes you more righteous, or proves you're a believer and I'm not.
One sin, or a thousand, it makes no difference if any are attributed to us.
Should a believer go out and live like the devil?
Of course not.
But no matter our sins, we are not held accountable. They are gone, never to be remembered again, as far as the east is from the west. Your "progress scale" is absolutely meaningless in the eyes of God, because we have the very righteousness of Christ imputed to us. We will never be condemned for even our future sins, for to condemn us is to condemn Jesus.
We are, and will remain, as sinless as Jesus is.
As I have already explained numerous times: In James 2:22, faith perfected by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
So after *properly harmonizing scripture with scripture,* we can clearly see that man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.
*It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
Descriptive passage of scripture. Don't put the cart before the horse. 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, watch over, keep intact) His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
"Loves Me and guards My Word" is DESCRIPTIVE of those who are born of God/Believers. You must not confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of scripture. The end result is salvation by works!
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
So after *properly harmonizing scripture with scripture,* we can clearly see that man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.
*It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
Descriptive passage of scripture. Don't put the cart before the horse. 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, watch over, keep intact) His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
"Loves Me and guards My Word" is DESCRIPTIVE of those who are born of God/Believers. You must not confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of scripture. The end result is salvation by works!
E
I think james said it best.
If we do as these lawyers want us to do. Ands obey ALL the law completely without fail, then stumble in 1 points we are found guilty of all.
they want to puff up their righteousness, when God says they are guilty. Thats on them. Many will say in that day, lord lord did we not DO!
Jesus will say depart. I NEVER NEW YOU.
Because no matter what they DID, one fall makes them GUILTY!
thus ALL have sinned and fall short. Not just who they deem as sinners, but they themselves. Just 1 sin is all it takes.
as I said earlier, the smallest sin you can think of ever doing carries with it the death penalty. Of which their is no escape apart from grace.
If we do as these lawyers want us to do. Ands obey ALL the law completely without fail, then stumble in 1 points we are found guilty of all.
they want to puff up their righteousness, when God says they are guilty. Thats on them. Many will say in that day, lord lord did we not DO!
Jesus will say depart. I NEVER NEW YOU.
Because no matter what they DID, one fall makes them GUILTY!
thus ALL have sinned and fall short. Not just who they deem as sinners, but they themselves. Just 1 sin is all it takes.
as I said earlier, the smallest sin you can think of ever doing carries with it the death penalty. Of which their is no escape apart from grace.
In Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works, as you may suppose. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses.
Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:22-23 were "outwardly" doing all the things that the righteous would do yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him.
*The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness.
*Only those who truly believe in Him are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. *The foolish man twists the words of Jesus and acts on their own self-righteous works system and calls that acting on the words of Jesus.
Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:22-23 were "outwardly" doing all the things that the righteous would do yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him.
*The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness.
*Only those who truly believe in Him are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. *The foolish man twists the words of Jesus and acts on their own self-righteous works system and calls that acting on the words of Jesus.
lolzzzz...
I heard they're really really good at staying dead too.
All I know is God granted me faith, and every believer has obtained it in the same exact manner. Why people fight against this truth is beyond me. There is so much in Scripture that proves this and that salvation is not clinched by choice.
Anyhow I am out of here before this discussion swallows up my time and day with incessant denials of truth by way of tradition...
I heard they're really really good at staying dead too.
All I know is God granted me faith, and every believer has obtained it in the same exact manner. Why people fight against this truth is beyond me. There is so much in Scripture that proves this and that salvation is not clinched by choice.
Anyhow I am out of here before this discussion swallows up my time and day with incessant denials of truth by way of tradition...
Did Abraham ( when his name was Abram) put his faith in God when God told him to go to another land, I mean that surely is his faith showing, leaving all that he knew and not having a clue of where he was going, yet he put his whole trust/faith in God...
Genesis 12:1 The LORD had said to Abram, "Go from your country, your people and your father's household to the land I will show you...xox...
Genesis 12:1 The LORD had said to Abram, "Go from your country, your people and your father's household to the land I will show you...xox...
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