Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,235
697
113
How is the righteousness of God displayed through faith?

Our faith or the faith of Jesus?

How are we justified, declared righteous?

Through our own faith or by the faith of Jesus?

When the Holy Spirit is given to us when we place faith in Jesus whose faith do we now have?

Is it not the faith of Jesus?

John 16:8-10
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;

16:9 of sin: Note the singular sin, not sins. Our witness should not focus on sins (adultery, gluttony, pride, and other sins), but on the full payment that Christ has made for all sin. Reception of the full pardon is the only cure for the disease of sin.
16:10 of righteousness: After Christ’s departure the Holy Spirit would convict the world of the nature of righteousness and the need for righteousness. Jesus’ work on the Cross was completely righteous. This is demonstrated by the Father’s emptying of the tomb, signifying His satisfaction with the righteous payment and His acceptance of Christ into His presence. (NKJV study notes)

Does it mean that as a result of the faith of Jesus we are declared righteous, when repent of the sin we repent of the sin of unbelief we now have the Holy Spirit in us who then sanctifies us. We partake in the faith of Jesus and grow in it.
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
7,848
180
63
hahaha

well i agree with that

even though faith in itself was a gift

i think that this whole debate should have its own thread maybe


i was just checkin in to see if anyone was trusting in themself to meet the mark

may God bless everyone here with patience and wisdom

and maybe bring some peace :p

back to work
not likely that we could be that pure McGee. :)
 

joefizz

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2017
13,684
481
83
25
When you trust god, That is your faith. What you have decided to do is trust God to do all th work for you. Thatswhy you get no credit, God gets all the credit,
God always gets all the credit "here" after this world and heaven are made anew,then is when we'll receive said credit,it is a motivator but receiving Salvation through Jesus and wanting to do all we can for God/Jesus out of Love and Service are to be our first reasons,for working for God/Jesus.
 

joefizz

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2017
13,684
481
83
25
I see it differently bro.

If I had perfect faith in God, I would never falter and trust in self. Thus I would never sin.

jesus did not sin, because he had perfect faith in the father
You'd "think" so wouldn't you,but even Job another perfect faith worker,defined that he wasn't perfect despite all he did right and though satan attempted to down his faith he accepted all his tragedies as things done for a good reason by God,for he himself knew that we fall on bad times,no matter our faith.
 

joefizz

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2017
13,684
481
83
25
Jesus has faith he can save you, bit he will not just save you, You have to have faith in him or you will never ask him to save you,
Much better,Yes you come to Jesus,now God/Jesus may call but overall you have to come to him and "know" you will be saved if you ask him to save you.
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
7,848
180
63
Jesus has faith he can save you, bit he will not just save you, You have to have faith in him or you will never ask him to save you,
If im drowning I will scream for help. I doubt faith or no faith will be in my thinking. But, never had the experience so can't say positively.

However, I've lost control of my car on Michigan icy roads more than once. I've screamed Jesus help. Each time had a miraculous stop. No harm.
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
4,863
896
113
forgive me stone

i think of you as a sister in Christ


nothing less


i said it the way i did because you have been part of this thread longer than me
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,317
73
48
Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ for that is all we can do not having the Spirit.

When a person receives the Spirit,faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,which this has to do with love.

Paul said without charity he is nothing,and James said without charity their faith is dead,and John said without charity the love of God does not dwell in them,so love not in word only,but in deed and in truth.

Which charity is love in action,and that is the works we do to have faith active in our life.Our faith means nothing without love,so we have to have works of love,charity,love in action,for our faith to be valid.

Our love matters in our salvation,so if we lack charity,which is love in action,works,then our faith lacks to where it is void.

That is why works matter in our salvation,because love matters in our salvation,and charity is love in action.

James pointed out loving people by caring for their needs,and not say be clothed and fed,but do nothing about it,or anything that has to do with loving people.

Out of faith,hope,and charity,charity is the greatest.

Faith works by love.

Lack in love,lack in faith.

We are saved by grace through faith,but if we do not have charity,then our faith lacks,then grace lacks.

It is plain and simple works of love,and that is why works matter in our salvation,because love matters in our salvation.

So we are saved by works,for if we lack those works,then we lack love,and we are saved based on our love.

Love works no ill towards their neighbor,therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Paul said charity does not think an evil thought,does not sin,and helps the poor and needy.

We are saved based on our love,which has to be in action,works,charity.

Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ for that is all we can do,and we cannot love perfectly without the Spirit.

When we receive the Spirit then faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,for by the Spirit we can love perfectly.

We are saved by works,because we are saved by our love,which has to be charity,love in action.

Which the Bible warns us not to lack love.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Faith works by love,so to lack in works of love means your faith is not working.
 

joefizz

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2017
13,684
481
83
25
You'd "think" so wouldn't you,but even Job another perfect faith worker,defined that he wasn't perfect despite all he did right and though satan attempted to down his faith he accepted all his tragedies as things done for a good reason by God,for he himself knew that we fall on bad times,no matter our faith.
In fact many times I feel like venting like Job because of some of the foolish things I may do in a week,but I always try to remember that so long as I humbly and sincerely apologize to God/Jesus for my back slidings or unperceived sins,that God/Jesus forgives and even just by doing so I feel spiritually revitalized,and also remember that God/Jesus isn't trivial,one or more sins don't cut us off from him,so long as we feel "remorse or conviction",I'm so far into Trusting God/Jesus that no matter how if a sin is small or large I can't help but feel I need to apologize and I even punish myself if I'm sure a big sin was willful.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,235
697
113
We are saved by grace through faith,
So we are saved by works,f
Which one is it?

Your thoughts on
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

No faith no works.
Works no faith.

Both fall foul of genuine faith.
The faith that saved us
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,292
1,201
113
Sorry, but there is no Scripture that says we are saved by faith alone
Sure there are...maybe open your eyes to this fact-> through and through the bible is repelete with the eternal truth that it is faith that saves a man...all else <--the result of said faith and salvation!!!
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,256
831
113
The word faith to trust, to have an assurance.

Jesus faith means that jesus trusts or has an assurance in someone. Who is jesus trusting? Me?

it makes no sense to say we have jesus faith.

What is important, is what is our faith or trust in.

is it in jesus?

or is it in self.

So, you are untrustworthy in Christ? And that is O.K to remain that way - in Christ? when you ask, "..or is it in self." Who is self in Christ? Your own identity or Christ's? If you have faith in Jesus He will produce His fruit in you! Not from working for it, but in being obligated in love and dead to the right to yourself as He is faithful to you in your faithfulness to Him..

Satan loves the game of semantics doesn't he?
 
Last edited:

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,292
1,201
113
For it is by grace we have been SAVED THROUGH FAITH, and not of ourselves. It is the GIFT OF GOD, not of works lest anyone should boast.

A gift is freely given, not earned, A wage is earned.

last time I looked, Faith minus works equals faiht alone
Amen.....clear as hey bro......the simplicity found in Christ...All who believe on/in the Son are having EVERLASTING LIFE