Not By Works

[Studyman]

That's not the Jesus that walked the earth.

Isaiah 53:2 (NLT Study Bible Text,)
2 My servant grew up in the Lord’s presence like a tender green shoot,
like a root in dry ground.
There was nothing beautiful or majestic about his appearance,
nothing to attract us to him.

However you do accuse those who disagree with your theology and interpretation of scripture are following a false Jesus, the false Jesus you described above.

Absolutely that's not the Jesus that walked the earth. But there are millions of people, for centuries who have taught us for generations that this IS the Jesus that walked the earth.

You take his picture and show it to anyone in England, or America and ask them "Who is this"? Muslims, Catholics, JW, Atheists, everyone will answer "The Jesus of the Bible".

So you agree this other Jesus exists. Where does he exist Billy? In some small church in the corner of the world somewhere?

No, this Jesus is universally known as the Christian Jesus.

He is portrayed are being a loving, kind soul that wouldn't hurt a fly. Walking around in a white robe carrying a sheep, saving everybody.

But the true Jesus of the Bible was a carpenter, no doubt his hands were cut and dirty, calloused and strong. He couldn't even be identified apart from the other Jews until Judas kissed Him. He called the Mainstream Preachers of His time liars, murderers, serpents, hypocrites. Why? Because they rejected God's Word's and created their own law. He once made whips and whipped them for selling their wares on His Holy Day, and profiting from their "Religion". Imagine Him coming as a man today and seeing the multiple mansions of the Preachers who have the statue of the Men's hair shampoo model with His name plastered on it standing in their million dollar mansions.

From my perspective there are people who teach things about the Bible that are not true. Not because it goes against some imaginary "theology" that you might attribute to me. But because they blatantly teach things that are not true.

Like the teaching that the Pharisees were trying to please God, or earn salvation by following God's Laws. Only by rejecting EVERY WORD of the Christ, and EVERY PROPHESY regarding them in the Law and Prophets can you support this teaching. Yet it is taught by "many" on this forum almost every day.

So then, is it my theology that the Pharisees were rejected because they didn't follow God's Laws? Or is it simple Biblical Truth that can be easily confirmed by using only Christ's Words EVERY time He spoke of them?

In like manner, in Christ's time you could ask anyone "who do the Pharisees serve". And most everyone would say "The God of Abraham". (Except for John the Baptist, He knew who they really were)

But if you asked the Jesus of the Bible who they served:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it

So I don't want to bore you with a long post, and I'm pretty sure you will dismiss this line of thought anyway. But because I do love the brethren, I am "blowing the Trumpet" and trying to shine light on what to me is the Elephant in the room that no one wants to see, or even discuss.

And it's certainly isn't that the Jesus of the Bible didn't prepare us, or warn us of such a great religion which would snare so many people.

I don't think people purposely preach or follow man made religious doctrines, any more than Eve set out to purposely bring about a curse on all mankind. But there is "another Voice" out there. It disguises itself as Ministers of Righteousness. It furthers a religion which promotes "peace, Peace" where there is no Peace. And I at least want to bring what I know to the light for brothers to consider.

And yes, I do believe there are folks who have been tricked by this "Other Jesus".

 

[Jewel5712]

<><.🕇.><>

Wow, you openly admit that you are Mormon or is that PAST TENSE? Thanks for your openness. I am sure that the Management does not allow Proselytizing here. I hope you are here to discover the Truth About the BIBLE and the Errors in Mormonism. You do know that EVERYONE here WILL think of the Mormon Church as a Psuedo Christian Church? The REASON, is the Differences in the Christian Terms, compared to the same Terms in Momonism.

Here are those Terms that contradict Our Christian Terms:

GODHEAD

LDS: Father & Son are resurrected men with physical bodies. Holy Ghost is a separate man with a spiritual body. Three totally separate Gods. God is married. Other Gods for other worlds. (D&C 130:22; Teachings, pp. 345-346, pp. 370-373; Doctrines of Salvation,v.1, p. 10-12)

BIBLE: God is not a man. (Num. 23:19) He has always been God. (Psa. 90:2; Mal. 3:6; Hab. 1:12; Rom. 1:22-25) Only one God. (Isa. 43:10-11; 44:6; 45:21-22) Father is Spirit and invisible. (John 4:24; 1 Tim. 1:17)


JESUS CHRIST

LDS: Literally our elder brother, born to Heavenly Parents in the premortal life. Jesus, Lucifer and humans are all the same species and are brothers and sisters. (Gospel Principles pp. 11, 17, 18)

BIBLE: Fully God, not a subordinate deity. Eternal. (Isa. 9:6; John 8:58; 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 13:8; John 1:1-4, 14; Col. 1:16-17)


PREMORTAL LIFE

LDS: Teach that everyone existed in heaven before born on earth. We have existed eternally. (D&C 93:29; PGP:Bk of Abr 3:21-22; Teachings, pp. 352-354)

BIBLE: Only Christ existed before mortality, not man. (John 8:58; Col. 1:17) Our existence started on earth. (Zec. 12:1; 1 Cor. 15:46)


THE FALL

LDS: Fall was a blessing. It brought mortality, ability to have children and physical death. Adam was given conflicting commandments and was supposed to fall. (Doctrines of Salvation Vol. 1, pp. 111-116; Gospel Principles, pp. 31-33; 2 Nephi 2:25; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 268-269)

BIBLE: God intended obedience. Gen. 1:28. God tempts no one. (James 1:13-14). Man is sinful. (Rom. 5:12; 8:5-8; 1 Cor. 2:14)


VIRGIN BIRTH

LDS: Believe God, as a resurrected physical man, is literal Father of Jesus—same manner in which men are conceived on earth. Believe Matt. 1:18 is in error. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 546-547, 742)

BIBLE: Mary was "with child of the Holy Ghost." (Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:30-35)


SIN

LDS: Specific acts, not man's basic nature. Must know act is wrong to be a sin. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 550, 735-736)

BIBLE: We are in spiritual rebellion until conversion. (Eph. 2:3; Rom. 5:6) We do not just commit sins; we are basically sinful. (Matt. 1:21; Jer. 17:9; Luke 5:32)


FORGIVENESS

LDS: Granted at end of process of repentance and reformed behavior (Mormon Doctrine, p. 292-298; Gospel Principles, pp. 75-77, p. 123; Doctrine of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 133-134)

BIBLE: Complete forgiveness granted the moment we turn to Christ. (Mark 2:5; Col. 2:13-14; Eph. 1:6-7)


SALVATION BY GRACE

LDS: Believe Christ's death brought release from grave and universal resurrection. Salvation by grace is universal resurrection. Beyond this, man must earn his place in heaven. Saved by grace after all we can do. (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:23; Mormon Doctrine pp. 669-671)

BIBLE: Salvation is not limited to universal resurrection but gift of God to those who believe. (Rom. 1:16; Heb. 9:28; Eph. 2:8-9)


REDEEMED

LDS: From mortal death only. Not same as Eternal Life. (Doctrine of Salvation, Vol. 2, pp. 10-15)

BIBLE: Redeemed from more than mortal death; redeemed from spiritual death & given Eternal Life. (Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:1; Gal. 4:4-5)


GOSPEL

LDS: Doctrines and commandments of the LDS Church. True gospel restored by Joseph Smith. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 331; 334; Doctrine of Salvation, Vol. 1, pp. 156-159)

BIBLE: Good news of Christ’s death and resurrection as atonement for our sins. (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:6-8)


BORN AGAIN

LDS: Baptism into the LDS Church. (Mormon Doctrine, p. 101)

BIBLE: We are spiritually dead until our spiritual birth. (1 Pet. 1:23; 2 Cor. 5:17; John 3:7, 14, 15)


TRUE CHURCH

LDS: Only the Mormon Church. The true church was taken from the earth until Joseph Smith restored it. (D&C 1:30; 115:3, 4; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 133, 136)

BIBLE: Not an organization; as born-again Christians we are part of God's Church. (1 Cor. 12:12-14; Matt. 16:18; 18:19-20)


AUTHORITY - PRIESTHOOD

LDS: Believe only LDS have authority to baptize, ordain, etc. Have two-part system of priesthood—Melchizedek and Aaronic. (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 3, p. 80-81; D&C 107:1-21)

BIBLE: Christ brought end to Aaronic priesthood and is the only High Priest after the manner of Melchizedek. (Heb. 5:9-10; 7:11-17; 7:24-27; 2 Tim. 2:2)


LDS: Must be performed by LDS priesthood. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 69-72)

BIBLE: Emphasis is on Believer—not priesthood authority. (Matt. 28:19; Acts 2:37-41; 16:30-34)


SONS OF GOD

LDS: We were all born in heaven, prior to earth, as literal spirit children of God and his wife. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 589-590)

BIBLE: Spiritually adopted at conversion. (John 1:12; Gal. 3:26)


ETERNAL LIFE

LDS: Exaltation in Celestial Kingdom; godhood and ability to bear children in heaven. Must have a temple recommend and be sealed in Mormon temple. (D&C 131:1-4; 132:19-25, 30, 55)

BIBLE: Not limited to certain ones in the top part of heaven. No mention of parenthood or temple marriage but is given to all true believers. (1 John 5:12-13; Luke 20:35-36)


IMMORTALITY

LDS: Universal gift. The ability to go to heaven and live forever but not same as Eternal Life. Lower level of heaven and unable to bear children. (D&C 14:7; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 237, 376-377, 670)

BIBLE: Makes no distinction between immortality and eternal life. No second class citizens in heaven. (2 Tim. 1:10; John 3:15-16)


HELL

LDS: Hell as an institution is eternal—inmates come and go as in jail, but do not spend eternity there. Temporary. After debt is paid they will go to the Telestial Kingdom. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 349-351)

BIBLE: No mention of people getting out of Hell. (Rev. 21:8; Matt. 13:24-43, 47-50; Luke 16:26)


HEAVEN

LDS: Divided into three kingdoms—Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial. A place for almost everyone. (D&C 88:16-20; Misuse of 1 Cor. 15:40-41)

BIBLE: Only mentions two conditions—everlasting punishment or eternal life. (Matt. 25:31-46; 2 Thess. 1:7-10)


KINGDOM OF GOD

LDS: Means Celestial Kingdom. Only those in the Celestial Kingdom are in God's presence. Those in the Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdoms are not in the presence of the Father. (D&C 76:50-88; 131:1-4; 132:16-17)

BIBLE: All redeemed will be in God's presence. (Rev. 21:1-3) All believers are part of Kingdom. (Matt. 13:41-43)

Un necissary...

 

[Jewel5712]

Their name is BaptistBibleBeliever

I dont think vco even ACKNOWLEFED the 2nd part of BBBs post...he pretty much just zoned in on the word "mormin" and gave his "sermon" accordingly..

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

<><.🕇.><>

Wow, you openly admit that you are Mormon or is that PAST TENSE? Thanks for your openness. I am sure that the Management does not allow Proselytizing here. I hope you are here to discover the Truth About the BIBLE and the Errors in Mormonism. You do know that EVERYONE here WILL think of the Mormon Church as a Psuedo Christian Church? The REASON, is the Differences in the Christian Terms, compared to the same Terms in Momonism.

Here are those Terms that contradict Our Christian Terms:

GODHEAD

LDS: Father & Son are resurrected men with physical bodies. Holy Ghost is a separate man with a spiritual body. Three totally separate Gods. God is married. Other Gods for other worlds. (D&C 130:22; Teachings, pp. 345-346, pp. 370-373; Doctrines of Salvation,v.1, p. 10-12)

BIBLE: God is not a man. (Num. 23:19) He has always been God. (Psa. 90:2; Mal. 3:6; Hab. 1:12; Rom. 1:22-25) Only one God. (Isa. 43:10-11; 44:6; 45:21-22) Father is Spirit and invisible. (John 4:24; 1 Tim. 1:17)


JESUS CHRIST

LDS: Literally our elder brother, born to Heavenly Parents in the premortal life. Jesus, Lucifer and humans are all the same species and are brothers and sisters. (Gospel Principles pp. 11, 17, 18)

BIBLE: Fully God, not a subordinate deity. Eternal. (Isa. 9:6; John 8:58; 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 13:8; John 1:1-4, 14; Col. 1:16-17)


PREMORTAL LIFE

LDS: Teach that everyone existed in heaven before born on earth. We have existed eternally. (D&C 93:29; PGP:Bk of Abr 3:21-22; Teachings, pp. 352-354)

BIBLE: Only Christ existed before mortality, not man. (John 8:58; Col. 1:17) Our existence started on earth. (Zec. 12:1; 1 Cor. 15:46)


THE FALL

LDS: Fall was a blessing. It brought mortality, ability to have children and physical death. Adam was given conflicting commandments and was supposed to fall. (Doctrines of Salvation Vol. 1, pp. 111-116; Gospel Principles, pp. 31-33; 2 Nephi 2:25; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 268-269)

BIBLE: God intended obedience. Gen. 1:28. God tempts no one. (James 1:13-14). Man is sinful. (Rom. 5:12; 8:5-8; 1 Cor. 2:14)


VIRGIN BIRTH

LDS: Believe God, as a resurrected physical man, is literal Father of Jesus—same manner in which men are conceived on earth. Believe Matt. 1:18 is in error. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 546-547, 742)

BIBLE: Mary was "with child of the Holy Ghost." (Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:30-35)


SIN

LDS: Specific acts, not man's basic nature. Must know act is wrong to be a sin. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 550, 735-736)

BIBLE: We are in spiritual rebellion until conversion. (Eph. 2:3; Rom. 5:6) We do not just commit sins; we are basically sinful. (Matt. 1:21; Jer. 17:9; Luke 5:32)


FORGIVENESS

LDS: Granted at end of process of repentance and reformed behavior (Mormon Doctrine, p. 292-298; Gospel Principles, pp. 75-77, p. 123; Doctrine of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 133-134)

BIBLE: Complete forgiveness granted the moment we turn to Christ. (Mark 2:5; Col. 2:13-14; Eph. 1:6-7)


SALVATION BY GRACE

LDS: Believe Christ's death brought release from grave and universal resurrection. Salvation by grace is universal resurrection. Beyond this, man must earn his place in heaven. Saved by grace after all we can do. (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:23; Mormon Doctrine pp. 669-671)

BIBLE: Salvation is not limited to universal resurrection but gift of God to those who believe. (Rom. 1:16; Heb. 9:28; Eph. 2:8-9)


REDEEMED

LDS: From mortal death only. Not same as Eternal Life. (Doctrine of Salvation, Vol. 2, pp. 10-15)

BIBLE: Redeemed from more than mortal death; redeemed from spiritual death & given Eternal Life. (Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:1; Gal. 4:4-5)


GOSPEL

LDS: Doctrines and commandments of the LDS Church. True gospel restored by Joseph Smith. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 331; 334; Doctrine of Salvation, Vol. 1, pp. 156-159)

BIBLE: Good news of Christ’s death and resurrection as atonement for our sins. (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:6-8)


BORN AGAIN

LDS: Baptism into the LDS Church. (Mormon Doctrine, p. 101)

BIBLE: We are spiritually dead until our spiritual birth. (1 Pet. 1:23; 2 Cor. 5:17; John 3:7, 14, 15)


TRUE CHURCH

LDS: Only the Mormon Church. The true church was taken from the earth until Joseph Smith restored it. (D&C 1:30; 115:3, 4; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 133, 136)

BIBLE: Not an organization; as born-again Christians we are part of God's Church. (1 Cor. 12:12-14; Matt. 16:18; 18:19-20)


AUTHORITY - PRIESTHOOD

LDS: Believe only LDS have authority to baptize, ordain, etc. Have two-part system of priesthood—Melchizedek and Aaronic. (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 3, p. 80-81; D&C 107:1-21)

BIBLE: Christ brought end to Aaronic priesthood and is the only High Priest after the manner of Melchizedek. (Heb. 5:9-10; 7:11-17; 7:24-27; 2 Tim. 2:2)


LDS: Must be performed by LDS priesthood. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 69-72)

BIBLE: Emphasis is on Believer—not priesthood authority. (Matt. 28:19; Acts 2:37-41; 16:30-34)


SONS OF GOD

LDS: We were all born in heaven, prior to earth, as literal spirit children of God and his wife. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 589-590)

BIBLE: Spiritually adopted at conversion. (John 1:12; Gal. 3:26)


ETERNAL LIFE

LDS: Exaltation in Celestial Kingdom; godhood and ability to bear children in heaven. Must have a temple recommend and be sealed in Mormon temple. (D&C 131:1-4; 132:19-25, 30, 55)

BIBLE: Not limited to certain ones in the top part of heaven. No mention of parenthood or temple marriage but is given to all true believers. (1 John 5:12-13; Luke 20:35-36)


IMMORTALITY

LDS: Universal gift. The ability to go to heaven and live forever but not same as Eternal Life. Lower level of heaven and unable to bear children. (D&C 14:7; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 237, 376-377, 670)

BIBLE: Makes no distinction between immortality and eternal life. No second class citizens in heaven. (2 Tim. 1:10; John 3:15-16)


HELL

LDS: Hell as an institution is eternal—inmates come and go as in jail, but do not spend eternity there. Temporary. After debt is paid they will go to the Telestial Kingdom. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 349-351)

BIBLE: No mention of people getting out of Hell. (Rev. 21:8; Matt. 13:24-43, 47-50; Luke 16:26)


HEAVEN

LDS: Divided into three kingdoms—Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial. A place for almost everyone. (D&C 88:16-20; Misuse of 1 Cor. 15:40-41)

BIBLE: Only mentions two conditions—everlasting punishment or eternal life. (Matt. 25:31-46; 2 Thess. 1:7-10)


KINGDOM OF GOD

LDS: Means Celestial Kingdom. Only those in the Celestial Kingdom are in God's presence. Those in the Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdoms are not in the presence of the Father. (D&C 76:50-88; 131:1-4; 132:16-17)

BIBLE: All redeemed will be in God's presence. (Rev. 21:1-3) All believers are part of Kingdom. (Matt. 13:41-43)

While I appreciate your informative post . . . I'm not sure why you would think I am still a Mormon - they do not admire the precious blood of the Saviour, they think He is the spirit brother of Satan.

Looks like you jumped!!

 

[Jewel5712]

While I appreciate your informative post . . . I'm not sure why you would think I am still a Mormon - they do not admire the precious blood of the Saviour, they think He is the spirit brother of Satan.

Looks like you jumped!!

Yup..as you can see..by his reply to MY posts..he seems to "jump" a lot..

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

We need to buy that boy a trampoline!

 

[Jewel5712]

We need to buy that boy a trampoline!

One with a hole in the middle..lol

 

[BillG]

3529 pages.
That is more than what comprise the synoptic gospels where we're told we are saved by faith through God's grace.
We're not saved by works, as Paul's letters inform us, so that we can't boast we had a thing to do with our redemption.
It takes over three thousand pages to recall what is already written in the bible? How is there an argument that lasts this long?

It's lasted longer than 3,000 pages.
It's lasted for about 2,018 years.

This thread started Jan 2 2017.

That is 616 days. Your post is 70,571.

On average that is 114.56 posts per day.

We are on page 3,529.

On average that is 5.72 pages today.

So if we assume that this thread were to last another 2018 years.

So that would be 736,570 days + leap years then we have 737, 075days.

That being the case then we would have 84,439,255posts, over 14,762,108 pages.

All calculations are approx & T&C's apply

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Lord

Help me to be the person my dog thinks I am.

LOL! I Like that!!! My dawg thinks I'm pretty kewl!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Never ending i SHOULD be sitting on a beach somewhere with a cabanna boy on my vacation..not doing housework..lol

Oh no, your on a “staycation” not a “vacation”

 

[Jewel5712]

Oh no, your on a “staycation” not a “vacation”

Yeah..unfortunately..lol..have a project to convert a chandelier to put over my dining table but i hate doing electrical stuff/rewiring so am procrastinating that project until tomorrow..lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I realize that we can choose to block the false teachers but what of those that are either lost and seeking the truth or babes in Christ that can be deceived? Is it not better to ban these people seeing they are already accursed, according to Paul.

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:6-9).

There is likely no legitimate reason to provide a free soapbox for those that deny the free gift of salvation and have departed from the old paths of God's truth.

"Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set" (Proverbs 22:28).

Banning is up to the mods, not us.

When a person keeps playing games like they do. It is easy for people to see. I doubt they are much of a threat..

One who can not answer question or refuses. Convicts himself..

 

[Jewel5712]

Banning is up to the mods, not us.

When a person keeps playing games like they do. It is easy for people to see. I doubt they are much of a threat..

One who can not answer question or refuses. Convicts himself..

@BaptistBibleBeliever

Also lovingly known as "cherry pickers" (they pick n choose scripture out of context to serve thier means" or..MY persomal favorite..TAIL CHASERS..lol

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Banning is up to the mods, not us.

When a person keeps playing games like they do. It is easy for people to see. I doubt they are much of a threat..

One who can not answer question or refuses. Convicts himself..

They simply do not speak our language and out themselves . . .

"Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right. Then they took him, and slew him at the passages of Jordan: and there fell at that time of the Ephraimites forty and two thousand" (Judges 12:6).

 

[tourist]

I realize that we can choose to block the false teachers but what of those that are either lost and seeking the truth or babes in Christ that can be deceived? Is it not better to ban these people seeing they are already accursed, according to Paul.

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:6-9).

There is likely no legitimate reason to provide a free soapbox for those that deny the free gift of salvation and have departed from the old paths of God's truth.

"Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set" (Proverbs 22:28).

I don't think that any member should be banned just because they hold a contrary view to others or that their perception may be a little twisted on certain scriptural points. I also don't consider these members to be accursed as it is not our place to pass judgement. I like the verse you supplied but don't see the relevance to the topic of who gets banned or who stays. As I have said, it is sad for me to see a member that has been banned or driven from the site as it's like a death in the family.

 

[Jewel5712]

@BaptistBibleBeliever

https://goo.gl/images/sLzwYr

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Henry doesn't chase his tail - no matter how hard I've tried to teach him. But he does watch Animal Planet very attentively and lets all those dogs know how he feels about them being stars, but not him.

 

[Jewel5712]

Henry doesn't chase his tail - no matter how hard I've tried to teach him. But he does watch Animal Planet very attentively and lets all those dogs know how he feels about them being stars, but not him.

Lol.. My cats used to attentively watch BIG CAT DIARY on the animal planet chamnel (re big cats in africa..lions..chetahs etc)

 

[DianaO]

It's lasted longer than 3,000 pages.
It's lasted for about 2,018 years.

This thread started Jan 2 2017.

That is 616 days. Your post is 70,571.

On average that is 114.56 posts per day.

We are on page 3,529.

On average that is 5.72 pages today.

So if we assume that this thread were to last another 2018 years.

So that would be 736,570 days + leap years then we have 737, 075days.

That being the case then we would have 84,439,255posts, over 14,762,108 pages.

All calculations are approx & T&C's apply

Well there you go getting all math technical and stuff. That actually makes it worse than I originally thought. When long ago 32 simple words said it all. Ephesians 2:8-9 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

 

[BillG]

In like manner, in Christ's time you could ask anyone "who do the Pharisees serve". And most everyone would say "The God of Abraham". (Except for John the Baptist, He knew who they really were)

But if you asked the Jesus of the Bible who they served:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it

Now we know how Jesus addressed the Pharisees.
How Paul addressed the Galatians.

You mentioned one verse above and there are many more.

He was forthright, told it like was and AS HE KNEW IT in full knowledge.

Would you consider that brash (as we understand that word today)?
Is there a difference between brash and subtlety

There must be because Jesus warned about as did the NT writers.
Beware of sheep in wolves clothing.

With regards to the God of Abraham

Galatians 3:19-26

Purpose of the Law
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Sons and Heirs
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

With regards to the Pharisees I agree with Jesus when he says "Woe to you"

They had no interest in serving ( although to be honest I have no idea how and when that changed if in fact it ever changed) they were self seeking with big egos who placed that above what Jesus revealed in terms of the law.

That is LOVE.

Jesus said

Matthew 11:29-30
29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

He also said "IF YOU LOVE ME"
So if we love we do.
We can do, but if it's not out of love then it means nothing.
If it's out of love then by inference it's based on relationship.
If not then by inference we are goats.

To me it's all about doing because I love him and want be like him.
Yes I mess up, yes I get it wrong as much as it pains me.
Sometimes I fess up straight away, sometimes I don't.
When I don't the Holy Spirit keeps nagging away at me.

Then I come before my Father in the knowledge that my Jesus is interceding for me.