Not By Works

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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New International Version 1984 Matthew 28:18-20 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

WHO AMONG CHRIST'S APOSTLES AND DISCIPLES WHO HEARD HIM SAY THESE THINGS, WROTE AND PREACHED THAT HE "WAS CURSED" FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS?

New International Version 1984 Mark 3:28-29 I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.”
you seem to have no problem rejecting Scripture that you disagree with.

you have no authority over Scripture, to question what Paul said.


you and your judgement need to be rebuked instead of decon and magneta.


and you still have not answered my question- are you sinless or not? stop talking about others and talk about yourself.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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you seem to have no problem rejecting Scripture that you disagree with.

you have no authority over Scripture, to question what Paul said.


you and your judgement need to be rebuked instead of decon and magneta.


and you still have not answered my question- are you sinless or not? stop talking about others and talk about yourself.
Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.37 I know you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you do what you have heard from your father.”

39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do the things Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the things your own father does.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

The Children of the Devil
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from Godand now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 He who belongs to God hears what God says.The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,725
4,517
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Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.37 I know you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you do what you have heard from your father.”

39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do the things Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the things your own father does.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

The Children of the Devil
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from Godand now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 He who belongs to God hears what God says.The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
you still did not answer- do YOU sin? are YOU sinless?

I know what Scripture says- I am asking you.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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you still did not answer- do YOU sin? are YOU sinless?

I know what Scripture says- I am asking you.
WHY WOULD I ANSWER YOUR QUESTION WHEN I KNOW THAT YOU REJECT GOD'S WORDS? IF YOU REJECT GOD'S WORDS, WHY WOULD I TRUST YOU THAT YOU WOULD NOT REJECT MY OWN WORDS?

YOU HAVE PROVEN YOURSELF BEFORE WHEN YOU DETRACTED FROM YOUR DECLARATION THAT NO ONE HERE IS SAYING THAT OBEDIENCE IS NOT A PART OF SALVATION.

DO YOU REALLY EXPECT ME TO TRUST YOU NOW?

New International Version 1984 John 15:20-22 Remember the words I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

john 12
43 for they loved praise from men more than praise from God.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,508
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WHY WOULD I ANSWER YOUR QUESTION WHEN I KNOW THAT YOU REJECT GOD'S WORDS? IF YOU REJECT GOD'S WORDS, WHY WOULD I TRUST YOU THAT YOU WOULD NOT REJECT MY OWN WORDS?

YOU HAVE PROVEN YOURSELF BEFORE WHEN YOU DETRACTED FROM YOUR DECLARATION THAT NO ONE HERE IS SAYING THAT OBEDIENCE IS NOT A PART OF SALVATION.
So how much obedience does it take? How much obedience must you accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to "help" Christ save you? (Romans 3:22-28). Is man saved by grace through faith, not works? Or is man saved by grace through faith + works? (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,725
4,517
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WHY WOULD I ANSWER YOUR QUESTION WHEN I KNOW THAT YOU REJECT GOD'S WORDS? IF YOU REJECT GOD'S WORDS, WHY WOULD I TRUST YOU THAT YOU WOULD NOT REJECT MY OWN WORDS?

YOU HAVE PROVEN YOURSELF BEFORE WHEN YOU DETRACTED FROM YOUR DECLARATION THAT NO ONE HERE IS SAYING THAT OBEDIENCE IS NOT A PART OF SALVATION.

DO YOU REALLY EXPECT ME TO TRUST YOU NOW?

New International Version 1984 John 15:20-22 Remember the words I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

john 12
43 for they loved praise from men more than praise from God.
I do not care if you trust me, like me, or not. that is not relevant to the conversation.

what I do care about is this- their is one way, and one way only to be saved. that way is faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

obedience , command keeping, not sinning, if one tries to be saved this way, then one will fail.

if one accepts Christ and His righteousness, and them the indwelling Holy Sprit will shape and empower one to lead a Godly life.

their is one way. you , needs to studyman, shamah, etc. are offering different ways. they are to be rejected.

and, since you will not answer, i'll answer for you- no one is sinless.

that includes you.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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  1. Not by works( NOT “VOID OF WORKS”) but by grace thru FAITH.(eph 2:8-9)
  2. Justified by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.(james 2:24)
  3. Faith that Worketh in Love.(gal 5:6)
  4. Faith and Action Working TOGETHER.(james 2:22)

Salvation is by GRACE through FAITH and NOT BY WORKS(of ourselves).(#1)


It is NOT BY FAITH ALONE(#2)but it WORKS in LOVE(#3)thus FAITH & LOVE(works of obedience(romans 1:5) manifested in ACTION and in TRUTH)(1john 3:16-18)are working TOGETHER.(#4)


2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE: THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.




THE FIRST PHASE OF SALVATION IS TO BELIEVE IN THE ONE THAT GOD HAS SENT AND IN HIS WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.

(john 6:28-29, eph 1:13,romans 10:8-17).

THROUGH THIS FAITH WE WILL RECEIVE THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT(the Helper/Counsellor)(gal 3:14, john 14:16-17)


John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the WORKS GOD REQUIRES?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to BELIEVE in the one he has sent.”


THE SECOND PHASE IS THE WORKING OUT OF THAT SALVATION AND REMAINING/CONTINUING IN THE FAITH TO THE END THROUGH OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL AND COMMANDMENTS, DOING GOOD WORKS. WALKING AS JESUS DID AND BEING A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST WHO DOES THE WORKS BEING LED BY THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST WHO IS THE HEAD.


Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, HIS BODY OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.


1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.


1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.


John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has FAITH in me WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father


1 Corinthians 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, iF YOU HOLD FIRMLY TO THE WORD I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.


Romans 1:5 Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the OBEDIENCE that comes from FAITH.


Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always OBEYED—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—CONTINUE TO WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.


Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as servants, you are servants to the one whom you obey—WHETHER YOU ARE SERVANTS TO SIN, WHICH LEADS TO DEATH, OR TO OBEDIENCE, WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?


2 Corinthians 9:13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the OBEDIENCE THAT ACCOMPANIES YOUR CONFESSION OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.


Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, TO PREPARE GOD’S PEOPLE FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, ATTAINING to the whole measure of the FULLNESS of Christ.


Romans 2:7 To those who by persistence in DOING GOOD seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.


Galatians 6:9 Let us not become weary in DOING GOOD, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.


Ephesians 2:10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do.


1 Timothy 6:18-19 Command them TO DO GOOD, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.


Hebrews 5:8-9 Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered and, once made PERFECT, he became the SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION for all who OBEY HIM.


Matthew 19:16-17 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do TO GET ETERNAL LIFE?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.”


Matthew 25:21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful SERVANT You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. COME AND SHARE YOUR MASTER’S HAPPINESS!’


WE ARE SANCTIFIED BY THESE TRUTHS AS IT IS WRITTEN:

John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.


James 1:22 BUT BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD AND NOT HEARERS ONLY deceiving your own selves.


Romans 2:13 (For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God: that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS; and His commandments are not grievous.


1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth.


Ephesians 3:19 and to know this LOVE that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all THE FULLNESS OF GOD.


THE THIRD PHASE OF SALVATION IS SALVATION FROM GOD’S WRATH. THIS IS DEPENDING ON GOD’S MERCY AND JUDGMENT(JUSTICE).


Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”


1 John 4:17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because IN THIS WORLD WE ARE LIKE HIM.


Matthew 12:36-37 But I tell you that MEN WILL HAVE TO GIVE ACCOUNT ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”


John 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father,(ref:john 14:12) where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment,(ref:hebrews 10:26-27) because the prince of this world now stands condemned.


Romans 2:5-10 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.


Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? FOR WE WILL ALL STAND BEFORE GOD’S JUDGMENT SEAT.


2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.


Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, NOT TO BEAR SIN, BUT TO BRING SALVATION to those who are waiting for him.


1 Peter 4:17-18 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY the gospel of God? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the SINNERS.


John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who WORKS for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.


John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.


John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,725
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So how much obedience does it take? How much obedience must you accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to "help" Christ save you? (Romans 3:22-28). Is man saved by grace through faith, not works? Or is man saved by grace through faith + works? (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).
that is something legalists can't answer.

because if we are saved by good works, how much good works are required?

if sin disqualifies one, then what kind of sin and how many times?

just rational , reasonable questions that they can't answer. ( because their is no answer).
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
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That was NO sermon, Sandra Tanner posted online for detailed information, and I had paper copy of it years before I had a computer. It is an information track that will help Mormons to get out of their Mormonism, and CHRISTIANS to recognize the MORMON deception using the exact Christian Terms. EITHER WAY IT IS VALUABLE TO HIM, and others. So what is your BEEF, unless you are a Mormon incognito? Where I come from, my sermons were nearly an hour in length.
Amd yet you dont admit you were wrong...;(
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
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This may come as a big surprise to you, BUT I DO NOT READ EVERY POST YOU MAKE, and in fact I am thinking about putting you on the permanent IGNORE LIST. And I suspect many others are too.
If you dont want me to reply..dont ASK me thinhgs...
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
34,284
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Tennessee
[
YOU JUST PROVE THAT YOU ARE NOT CHRISTIANS.

THE CHURCH IS THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST OF WHOM HE IS THE SAVIOR (ephesians 5:23) IT IS NOT A PHYSICAL BUILDING AND IT'S MEMBERS ARE CALLED CHRISTIANS.

SORRY BUT I DON'T WANT TO EAT WITH YOU OR ANYONE WHO REJECTS GOD'S WORD.

PLEASE PUT ME ON IGNORE.
Jesus ate with sinners but I am sure He will also save a place at the dinner table for you too so that you can dine with Him. Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not mean that they are not a Christian. Holding a contrary opinion or perception on a spiritual point with you does not mean that they are rejecting God's word. Like it says in the first chapter of the book of Isaiah, "Come now, and let us reason together... line upon line, precept upon precept. A little here, a little there." I agree with you about your perception on what constitutes a church.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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OUR LORD JESUS GAVE INSTRUCTIONS TO PREACH THE GOSPEL UNTO ALL NATIONS.

TO BAPTIZE AND TO TEACH OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. (matthew 28:18-20)

romans 10
14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

THOSE WHO DO NOT TEACH OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S COMMANDS WERE NOT SENT TO PREACH THE GOSPEL.

1 john 4
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

1 john 2
3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a LIAR, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word,love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him:6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

revelations 21
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

LIKE ANANIAS AND SAPPHIRA, WHO AFTER ŔECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH FAITH, LIED TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.

WILL THEY BE CONSIGNED TO THE FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR?

DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things COMETH THE WRATH OF .GOD ÙPON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE


MAN GOT SEPARATED FROM GOD BECAUSE OF THE SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE WHEN MAN WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENT WHO SAID THAT “...Ye shall not surely die.”(genesis 3:4)


DÈCEIVERS OF THIS AGE SAYS THE SAME THING;

“YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE (PERISH / BE CONDEMNED). ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED. JUST HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS / ÒBEDIENCE) AND YOU WILL POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVE.

OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES.

For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF GOD?

He will punish those who do not know God and DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS.

"GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED"

"LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR"
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
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Anaheim, Cali.
YOU REALLY DESERVE TO BE BANNED FOR SAYING JESUS "WAS CURSED". IT SHOULDN'T BE TOLERATED. SINCE IT'S BEEN TOLERATED, I'M NOT SURPRISED WHY THOSE WHO TOLERATE IT REJECT GOD'S WORD, TEACHINGS, LAWS AND COMMANDS.
Dosn't it say in psalms cursed is a man who hangs from a tree? Hasn't any body heard tht being applied to the cross.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,508
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1. Not by works( NOT “VOID OF WORKS”) but by grace thru FAITH.(eph 2:8-9)

2. Justified by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.(james 2:24)

3. Faith that Worketh in Love.(gal 5:6)

4. Faith and Action Working TOGETHER.(james 2:22)
That's a lot of typing in such a short time. :unsure: I see that you quote all the same verses that other works-salvationists post (including Roman Catholics and Mormons) in a vain effort to try and prove that man is saved through faith + works. Genuine faith does not remain void of works (James 2:14), yet we are still saved through faith, NOT WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9). You cannot seem to process this and there is a reason for that. :cautious:

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness. Luke 6:45 - A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony* :)

Faith works in love (Galatians 5:6) because the love of God has been poured out within the hearts of believers through the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5). Slander and perverting the gospel is not a demonstration of faith working through love. :(

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
.....
Galatians 3
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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TO THE DOUBLE TALKING LIARS

The Sin and Doom of Ungodly People

jude 1

3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. 4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, WHO PERVERT THE ĢRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

8 In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings. 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them.

11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.

12 These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” 16 These people are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.

17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.


titus 1

16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and unfit for doing anything good.


ephesians 5

6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
Titus 3:5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,


THE RIHTEOUSNEßS OF THE JEWS WAS THROUGH THE LAW.


Deuteronomy 6:24-25 The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, THAT WILL BE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”


THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRISTIANS (NEW CREATION/MAN) IS THROUGH FAITH.


Romans 9:30-32 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH; but ISRAEL, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it NOT BY FAITH but as if it were by works. THEY stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”


IF YOU ARE A JEW WHOSE RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH THE LAW ….IT IS "NOT BY WORKS".(ephesians 2:8-deuteronomy 6:24-25)

WHETHER YOU'RE A GENTILE OR A JEW, IF YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH FAITH , YOU ARE;

..God's workmanship created in
Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS which He has PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO . ( ephesians 2:10)



“NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAD DONE" REFERS TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE JEWS WHICH WAS THROUGH THE LAW. (titus 3:5, eph 2:8-9)


PAUL’S QUESTION IS:


Romans 3:31 Do we, then, NULLIFY the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


HE ALSO SAID,


2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and iF I HAVE FAITH that can move mountains, BUT DO NOT HAVE LOVE, I AM NOTHING.


13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. BUT THE GREATEST OF THESE IS LOVE.


Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith NULLIFY God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”


GOD PUTS AND WRITES THE LAW IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS.


Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.


Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”


...NOT JUST TO THE JEWS WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH BUT ALSO TO THOSE WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE HEART.


Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.


AND CHRISTIANS ARE ABLE TO FULFILL AND UPHOLD THE LAW IN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS BECAUSE OF THE LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO THEIR HEARTS.


Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because GOD HAS POURED OUT HIS LOVE INTO OUR HEARTS by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.


AND THEREFORE, “LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.”(romans 13:10)


galatians 6

2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.


1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.


1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,


2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE; THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.


Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your HEART that you BELIEVE and are JUSTIFIED, and it is with your MOUTH that you CONFESS and are SAVED.


1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH.


Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.


John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND.”


Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?


26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also.


17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18how that they told you THERE SHOULD BE MOCKERS IN THE LAST TIME, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, HAVING NOT THE SPIRIT.


15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; but IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being ABOMINABLE, and DISOBEDIENT, and unto every good work REPROBATE.


13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, BE SOBER, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 AS OBEDIENT CHILDREN, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 because it is written, BE YE HOLY; FOR I AM HOLY.


OBEDIENCE LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH LEADS TO HOLINESS AND THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. (romans 6:16-23)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,725
4,517
113
Titus 3:5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,


THE RIHTEOUSNEßS OF THE JEWS WAS THROUGH THE LAW.


Deuteronomy 6:24-25 The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, THAT WILL BE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”


THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRISTIANS (NEW CREATION/MAN) IS THROUGH FAITH.


Romans 9:30-32 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH; but ISRAEL, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it NOT BY FAITH but as if it were by works. THEY stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”


IF YOU ARE A JEW WHOSE RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH THE LAW ….IT IS "NOT BY WORKS".(ephesians 2:8-deuteronomy 6:24-25)

WHETHER YOU'RE A GENTILE OR A JEW, IF YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH FAITH , YOU ARE;

..God's workmanship created in
Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS which He has PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO . ( ephesians 2:10)



“NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAD DONE" REFERS TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE JEWS WHICH WAS THROUGH THE LAW. (titus 3:5, eph 2:8-9)


PAUL’S QUESTION IS:


Romans 3:31 Do we, then, NULLIFY the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


HE ALSO SAID,


2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and iF I HAVE FAITH that can move mountains, BUT DO NOT HAVE LOVE, I AM NOTHING.


13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. BUT THE GREATEST OF THESE IS LOVE.


Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith NULLIFY God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”


GOD PUTS AND WRITES THE LAW IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS.


Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.


Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”


...NOT JUST TO THE JEWS WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH BUT ALSO TO THOSE WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE HEART.


Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.


AND CHRISTIANS ARE ABLE TO FULFILL AND UPHOLD THE LAW IN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS BECAUSE OF THE LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO THEIR HEARTS.


Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because GOD HAS POURED OUT HIS LOVE INTO OUR HEARTS by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.


AND THEREFORE, “LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.”(romans 13:10)


galatians 6

2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.


1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.


1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,


2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE; THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.


Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your HEART that you BELIEVE and are JUSTIFIED, and it is with your MOUTH that you CONFESS and are SAVED.


1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH.


Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.


John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND.”


Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?


26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also.


17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18how that they told you THERE SHOULD BE MOCKERS IN THE LAST TIME, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, HAVING NOT THE SPIRIT.


15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; but IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being ABOMINABLE, and DISOBEDIENT, and unto every good work REPROBATE.


13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, BE SOBER, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 AS OBEDIENT CHILDREN, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 because it is written, BE YE HOLY; FOR I AM HOLY.


OBEDIENCE LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH LEADS TO HOLINESS AND THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. (romans 6:16-23)


you can rant and name call all you want, you are not sinless, no one is, and you will not get to Heaven by being obedient, because no one can perfectly obey.