Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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The following two ideas are diametrically opposed and NOTHING like each other.....the latter being false and no correct message according to the bible.....

a. Eternally saved, justified, sealed and sanctified in Christ at the moment of belief by grace through faith with NO works attached to gain, keep, maintain, embellish or top of salvation and the irrevocable gift of eternal life.

b. Saved by a blended version of faith plus works, immersion, church membership, church affiliation, sacraments, spiritually manifested gifts, pew jumping, snake handling, tithing, singing in the choir and or any other hoop jumping or give the dog a bone theology.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
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But you warn them with interpretation of the Scriptures that actually CONTRADICT what the Bible Says. Your Zeal is misguided, because you have bought an untruth.
How does not having the natural feeling to do good works, once you have been saved and born-again actually CONTRADICT the bible?
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,470
113
Anaheim, Cali.
The following two ideas are diametrically opposed and NOTHING like each other.....the latter being false and no correct message according to the bible.....

a. Eternally saved, justified, sealed and sanctified in Christ at the moment of belief by grace through faith with NO works attached to gain, keep, maintain, embellish or top of salvation and the irrevocable gift of eternal life.

b. Saved by a blended version of faith plus works, immersion, church membership, church affiliation, sacraments, spiritually manifested gifts, pew jumping, snake handling, tithing, singing in the choir and or any other hoop jumping or give the dog a bone theology.
No snake handling? Well how bout spirit filled clog dancing or vomiting out demons or there's this neat trick with rat poison and kool aid or maybe some peyote, sage, rocks and a wig wam?
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest

A Psalm of King David - Psalm18
"But He caught me, He reach all the way from sky to sea;
pulled me out of that ocean of hate, that enemy chaos,
the void in which I was drowning. He stood me up on a
wide-open field; I stood there saved, surprised to be
loved." Psalm18
is there a limit to how many text a signature can contain? that's another signature worthy psalms, that you have paraphrased

and by the way, the title of "junior" or "senior" is boring to me, I like the aesthetics of the middle title "well-known member" it has a nice ring to it, let's learn to be content
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
No snake handling? Well how bout spirit filled clog dancing or vomiting out demons or there's this neat trick with rat poison and kool aid or maybe some peyote, sage, rocks and a wig wam?
Mr. Calibob, be careful, some might misinterpret you, and I know by experience how "well" (or unwell) this can go, and there are times that I even wonder "is this how arguments supposed to end" and also wonder, "if marriage ends like that, there will be a divorce" so, let's watch out for each other

as BillG advised me from my signature in which I have frequently failed to live up to "we are here to build each other up, focus on that", and I'm amazed at how I'm frequently blind to even my own signature, I'm trying to build calibob up just incase, I don't know the future, but we are looking out for each other
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
The following two ideas are diametrically opposed and NOTHING like each other.....the latter being false and no correct message according to the bible.....

a. Eternally saved, justified, sealed and sanctified in Christ at the moment of belief by grace through faith with NO works attached to gain, keep, maintain, embellish or top of salvation and the irrevocable gift of eternal life.

b. Saved by a blended version of faith plus works, immersion, church membership, church affiliation, sacraments, spiritually manifested gifts, pew jumping, snake handling, tithing, singing in the choir and or any other hoop jumping or give the dog a bone theology.
the remodified gospel, still remodifying :p jk

hopefully, someone (can be dcon, anyone) will call them out (meaning work-salvationist) and ask "by what authority are you remodifying these gospels (as in the Word of God)?"
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Keep swinging the sword and do not let the workers for, Cainologists and Pharisees steal Jesus' thunder......FAITH is what saves a man...NOT faith and works which is a false dogma.......
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,470
113
Anaheim, Cali.
Mr. Calibob, be careful, some might misinterpret you, and I know by experience how "well" (or unwell) this can go, and there are times that I even wonder "is this how arguments supposed to end" and also wonder, "if marriage ends like that, there will be a divorce" so, let's watch out for each other

as BillG advised me from my signature in which I have frequently failed to live up to "we are here to build each other up, focus on that", and I'm amazed at how I'm frequently blind to even my own signature, I'm trying to build calibob up just incase, I don't know the future, but we are looking out for each other
It's just examples of some of the more absurd practices I know of. I left some out because of good taste and a family friendly atmosphere
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Everybody by now knows my belief system. 50% have agreed with me on this forum. Of the other 50% that disagree with me, most of them have me on no response. Others are continuing to discuss the gospel with me like grown adult Christians.

But you are the only one that says that I should be blackballed and kicked off the forum. (Lies) You are the only one with a rather black heart, and hurtful words to another Christian that believes a little bit different than you believe. I bet 90% of all on this forum do not believe what you believe 100%. That means everyone on this forum preaches a false doctrine except for you.
"But you are the only one that says that I should be blackballed and kicked off the forum. (Lies)
Benhur is telling more "Lies",
Quote:
"you are the only one that says that I should be blackballed and kicked off the forum."

Dear friends on this forum, TruthTalk does not tell lies. The words that benhur said about being, "kicked of the forum or blackballed", are a complete "bold face lie", I never spoke or wrote not one word of what he said, "not one word." The people who know me and see what is posted will agree that I ever said or typed these words ever. Benhur beside being a "False Teacher" he is also a "Liar" as well. Shame on you benhur for your public lies and your equally bad false gospel.

Benhur teaches a works plus grace false gospel. If you are not producing fruit God will, "cut you off" We are the bride of Jesus Christ and He will never forsake his Bride the body of Christ.

More lies upon lies, your posts' never get a like(y) or even an agree for months and months so you are exaggerating about people who believe your fake gospel. The reason a counterfeit Christ is something to fight against is because you are making people twice the child of hell, as Jesus warning said to the teachers of the law and the Pharisees.

Benher you are mixing works with grace and that is a counterfeit gospel. and as long as you continue to leave your fake gospel on this forum I will resist it to my last breath. False teachers and their message should be avoided at all costs. And the worst part of your message is you say that God will "cut us off" if we are not producing enough works. And you say this by misinterpreting the bible. "Nothing will ever separate us from the love of God."

Matthew24:24
"For false Christs and false prophets
will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

Quote: Executive Editor, desiringGod.org
The question is not whether you ever hear the voice of false teachers. You do — probably every day. The question is whether you can discern which messages are false.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,235
4,183
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How does not having the natural feeling to do good works, once you have been saved and born-again actually CONTRADICT the bible?
I have asked you before, and I do not remember you answering. Explain what you understand is the biblical BORN AGAIN.

Also you contradict these verses:

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.



John 14:16-17 (HCSB)
16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever.
17 He is the Spirit of truth. The world is unable to receive Him because it doesn’t see Him or know Him. But you do know Him, because He remains with you and will be in you.



He remains or dwelleth (menō) with you: that is the Present Tense of that verse which means HE will be with us forever.

1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains (abideth) in death.

ALL FOUR OF THOSE Verbs are in the Greek Present Tense, implying that all four are in that Tense that implies a CONTINUOUS action for the doing that verb. That is a LIFETIME, doing that verb as a Lifestyle.

WE KNOW = FOREVER KNOWING.
HAVE PASSED = FOREVER PASSED FOR DEATH TO LIFE.
WE LOVE = that Agape Love is forever.

Now look at the last part of that verse.

REMAINS or ABIDETH in DEATH, if HE NEVER REALLY ACCEPTS JESUS AS HIS PERSONAL LORD MEANING MASTER.

He NEVER WAS A REAL CHRISTIAN, only a professing christian who professed that Jesus was the LORD, and Rom 10:9 makes it CLEAR you have to CONFESS JESUS AS LORD, and professing it, does not count.

He is saying the exact same thing HE did in this VERSE:

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

They are NOT a Real Christian that Lost their SALVATION. They are the ones that came close to becoming a real Christian, and then rejected it. They literally are the ones with soil full of Thorns, and Rocks. YES, only the GOOD SOIL produces a harvest.
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
by the way, keep in mind that "keeping your guard up" does not save you, "keeping your guard up" is meant to preserve the purity of one's heart (with God's help of course)

salvation is sustained by God
you play a role in the quality of your relationship with God
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
how quick is a microsecond?

let's take a look at this, I googled, and google told me there are a total of 783,137 words in the whole bible
imagine, (just to get an idea of how quick a microsecond is) if you can read every word in the bible as in one word per microsecond, (ok, on average, so no math "nerd" will pick on me for this)

with that power, you'd be able to read the whole bible front to back in 0.78 seconds
WOW!

speed is power, if the word "microsecond" doesn't praise God's power, then I don't know what does,

and this is worth meditating, PRAISE!!!!!
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,470
113
Anaheim, Cali.
how quick is a microsecond?

let's take a look at this, I googled, and google told me there are a total of 783,137 words in the whole bible
imagine, (just to get an idea of how quick a microsecond is) if you can read every word in the bible as in one word per microsecond, (ok, on average, so no math "nerd" will pick on me for this)

with that power, you'd be able to read the whole bible front to back in 0.78 seconds
WOW!

speed is power, if the word "microsecond" doesn't praise God's power, then I don't know what does,

and this is worth meditating, PRAISE!!!!!
Speed does not = comprehension.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
Speed does not = comprehension.
I know :), I meant it as illustration

and just because people cannot experience how microsecond is, what's amazing is that people don't doubt the existence of microseconds, even if they haven't experienced it
they can neither sense it through their five sense, and scientific instruments can barely measure it, and even if it can, it's accuracy is questionable, and if they were to doubt if it's truly microsecond, imagine the impossible task of trying to confirm it?

hence, faith is being exercised!
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
399
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Works is not the fruit. The fruit is the result of good works. For instance when you cloth the naked, and feed the poor, and visit the widow and the captive, and you take care of injustice, these are all good works, and the result is one of God's children is relieved of the burden of this life, and the result of be relieved is that they look up to God and thank God for sending them relief. This good works leads to a man or woman believing that there is a God in heaven that is watching over them, and it brings them closer to the KOG.

The fruit of our good works is souls are saved into the KOG. It is not word salad, it is the work of the Lord to save souls, and we are an important part of that saving of souls. So as a new person, born-again, and saved, be willing to be engaged in the work of the Lord and bring forth fruit for his kingdom. Or as John 15:2 tells us: Every branch in me that does not produce fruit, he (God) will take it away. If you are taken away you will not have EL with God, you will be somewhere else.
You ignore what Jesus said about fruits meaning works. In addition James discusses the relationship between works and faith. Here are both references in NIV and AMPC. I use AMPC for study since it gives the multiple meanings of original language meanings of words.

James 2 NIV

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

James 2 AMPC

14 What is the use (profit), my brethren, for anyone to profess to have faith if he has no [good] works [to show for it]? Can [such] faith save [his soul]?
15 If a brother or sister is poorly clad and lacks food for each day,
16 And one of you says to him, Good-bye! Keep [yourself] warm and well fed, without giving him the necessities for the body, what good does that do?
17 So also faith, if it does not have works (deeds and actions of obedience to back it up), by itself is destitute of power (inoperative, dead).
18 But someone will say [to you then], You [say you] have faith, and I have [good] works. Now you show me your [alleged] faith apart from any [good] works [if you can], and I by [good] works [of obedience] will show you my faith.
19 You believe that God is one; you do well. So do the demons believe and shudder [in terror and horror such as make a man’s hair stand on end and contract the surface of his skin]!
20 Are you willing to be shown [proof], you foolish (unproductive, spiritually deficient) fellow, that faith apart from [good] works is inactive and ineffective and worthless?
21 Was not our forefather Abraham [shown to be] justified (made acceptable to God) by [his] works when he brought to the altar as an offering his [own] son Isaac?
22 You see that [his] faith was cooperating with his works, and [his] faith was completed and reached its supreme expression [when he implemented it] by [good] works.
23 And [so] the Scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed in (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on) God, and this was accounted to him as righteousness (as conformity to God’s will in thought and deed), and he was called God’s friend.
24 You see that a man is justified (pronounced righteous before God) through what he does and not alone through faith [through works of obedience as well as by what he believes].
25 So also with Rahab the harlot—was she not shown to be justified (pronounced righteous before God) by [good] deeds when she took in the scouts (spies) and sent them away by a different route?
26 For as the human body apart from the spirit is lifeless, so faith apart from [its] works of obedience is also dead.


Matthew 7 NIV Jesus quoted
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Matthew 7 AMPC
15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you dressed as sheep, but inside they are devouring wolves.
16 You will fully recognize them by their fruits. Do people pick grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?
17 Even so, every healthy (sound) tree bears good fruit [worthy of admiration], but the sickly (decaying, worthless) tree bears bad (worthless) fruit.
18 A good (healthy) tree cannot bear bad (worthless) fruit, nor can a bad (diseased) tree bear [ excellent fruit [worthy of admiration].
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire.
20 Therefore, you will fully know them by their fruits.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,235
4,183
113
how quick is a microsecond?

let's take a look at this, I googled, and google told me there are a total of 783,137 words in the whole bible
imagine, (just to get an idea of how quick a microsecond is) if you can read every word in the bible as in one word per microsecond, (ok, on average, so no math "nerd" will pick on me for this)

with that power, you'd be able to read the whole bible front to back in 0.78 seconds
WOW!

speed is power, if the word "microsecond" doesn't praise God's power, then I don't know what does,

and this is worth meditating, PRAISE!!!!!
Let's put it this way, the Holy Spirit enters your Heart, before you can finish the Thought, "I want Jesus as my LORD and Master".
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
399
83
My view on the following verse.....especially the quoted part which you asked about...

KJV---For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Contemporary English Version---God was wise and decided not to let the people of this world use their wisdom to learn about him. Instead, God chose to save only those who believe the foolish message we preach.

To God it is pleasing or acceptable to save men through the preaching of the gospel and not by or through the wisdom which the world has to offer.....and based upon the wisdom of the world the message which we preach is foolish........that is how I view it.....
I agree with the added caveat that to the unsaved the gospel message sounds foolish and that's the reason for saying it that way.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,235
4,183
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I agree with the added caveat that to the unsaved the gospel message sounds foolish and that's the reason for saying it that way.
NO, the reason for saying it that way is because it is the TRUTH. SALVATION come the Moment you genuinely believe in JESUS trusting HIM totally. BEFORE ANY WORKS CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED. Obedience is a PART OF LOVE, not Salvation.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Well....good morning CC crew HAHA.....my sat. internet has been off for about 3 hours this morning and then hit and miss....the Satellite is in the south so maybe the hurricane is messing it up.....I must say that the workers for and Cainologists will attempt to gain or maintain salvation today to no avail.....

Jesus saves by faith and faith in and of itself....

HE that believes on the SO is having everlasting life. <---this is the narrow way and the only door into the kingdom.