Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
113
I would like to clarify something about "expectations." Although love is freely given and received, covenants are agreements with expectations. So, because God loves us and we love Him, we enter into covenant with each other and part of that covenant is that we love all people - saved and unsaved.
Please add scripture to support what you are saying.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,144
20,066
113
Anyone who "adds works", to our eternal salvation in any way shape or form is pushing a false gospel.
AMEN....a gospel of a different kind with no power to save, double cursed and all who believe it according to Paul are bewitched and foolish.....

He that believes on the Son is having everlasting life..........end of story.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
4,823
2,373
113
Anyone who "adds works", to our eternal salvation in any way shape or form is pushing a false gospel.
Ya know, I don't even think you could call it a "gospel" because it ain't "good news." It's a bunch of works to puff up the flesh. Yuk! Just false twisted doctrine. :sick:
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,707
3,641
113
Hello benhur, :)

Yes, Jesus IS good and He IS God. When Jesus asked the man WHY do you call Me good? Jesus was NEVER saying that He (Jesus) was not good. On the contrary, Jesus was trying to open the man's eyes to the fact that Jesus IS the visible God and that is WHY Jesus is GOOD because He IS God. :)(y)

On the subject of love.............

No, I do not think God expects us to return His love with our love (that kinda sounds like a "control freak." lol!) - I think God deeply desires us to return His love with our love. Love cannot be controlled or manipulated - it must be freely given and freely received - no strings, no expectations.

Yes, we are to freely love God, others and ourselves with no conditions - just like God loves us and all people - saved and unsaved.

All is well, indeed. :love:
The Consummation of Love
17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us.
Obedience by Faith
20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.


We love because he first loved us.

What I find interesting is

Love in V17 is Agape
Love in V18 is Agape
Love in V 19-21 is Agapaoe

Can anyone give an insight to the words used for love?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Hello benhur, :)

Yes, Jesus IS good and He IS God. When Jesus asked the man WHY do you call Me good? Jesus was NEVER saying that He (Jesus) was not good. On the contrary, Jesus was trying to open the man's eyes to the fact that Jesus IS the visible God and that is WHY Jesus is GOOD because He IS God. :)(y)

On the subject of love.............

No, I do not think God expects us to return His love with our love (that kinda sounds like a "control freak." lol!) - I think God deeply desires us to return His love with our love. Love cannot be controlled or manipulated - it must be freely given and freely received - no strings, no expectations.

Yes, we are to freely love God, others and ourselves with no conditions - just like God loves us and all people - saved and unsaved.

All is well, indeed. :love:
There are 3 Persons in the Trinity. God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So although Jesus is God, he is not God the Father, and that is who Jesus was referring to as the only one that was good. So his reply to this man is a little confusing.

If Jesus was referring to himself as God, why would he say "why callest me good", and seem to be referring to someone else?

It is just a little interesting.

In my world, I can imagine that God can give freely His love. But it is like, He is also mighty in giving mercy. But we know that if we are not merciful, like Him, He can take His mercy away and throw us in prison. I believe that if God gives us His love freely, we must be willing to give love too, and if we decide to be a hater, then God may be willing to take His love away from us, until we figure it out and repent and return love for love.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
2,710
3,069
113
59
You are missing the point....NO one can LOVE GOD until AFTER they have been BORN again from above by the Spirit......
That is correct...Until God calls us , we have no desire for Him , only through His love poured out in our hearts can we love with the love of our LORD...xox...
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Ya know, I don't even think you could call it a "gospel" because it ain't "good news." It's a bunch of works to puff up the flesh. Yuk! Just false twisted doctrine. :sick:
The good works that I talk about are not a bunch of works to puff up the flesh. Yuk! They are works that God before ordained me to do, that I should walk in them. I enjoy being engaged in the work of the Lord. Not that it will gain me salvation, but that is what the Lord wants me to do, so being a sheep, I follow after him and I do what he tells me to do.

I suspect you do the same. This is not a false and twisted doctrine.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
That is correct...Until God calls us , we have no desire for Him , only through His love poured out in our hearts can we love with the love of our LORD...xox...
So again, if God does not call us, then he automatically damns us to hell fire for eternity. We have no choice. Does not sound like a fair plan to me.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
4,823
2,373
113
On the subject of love.............

No, I do not think God expects us to return His love with our love (that kinda sounds like a "control freak." lol!) - I think God deeply desires us to return His love with our love. Love cannot be controlled or manipulated - it must be freely given and freely received - no strings, no expectations.

Yes, we are to freely love God, others and ourselves with no conditions - just like God loves us and all people - saved and unsaved.

All is well, indeed. :love:
I would like to clarify something about "expectations." Although love is freely given and received, covenants are agreements with expectations. So, because God loves us and we love Him, we enter into covenant with each other and part of that covenant is that we love all people - saved and unsaved.
Please add scripture to support what you are saying.
Hello TT, :)

God's love is freely given and received because NOTHING separates us from His Love - He never retracts it - His love has no conditions, no expectations - just simply deeply loves us and deeply desires us to love Him, too.

Romans 8:38-39 King James Version (KJV)
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Jeremiah 31:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

God's love for us and our love for Him leads us into covenant which is an agreement with expectations of behavior and certain works. These works are NOT for salvation, they are relational works dependent on a loving relationship between God and us.

Deuteronomy 7:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 10:12-13 King James Version (KJV)
12 And now, Israel, what doth the Lord thy God require of thee, but to fear the Lord thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,

13 To keep the commandments of the Lord, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

Also, love for all people (saved and unsaved) is included....

John 13:34-35 King James Version (KJV)
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.


Deuteronomy 10:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

I usually don't add supporting scripture because it makes for a very long post. :)
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
4,823
2,373
113
The good works that I talk about are not a bunch of works to puff up the flesh. Yuk! They are works that God before ordained me to do, that I should walk in them. I enjoy being engaged in the work of the Lord. Not that it will gain me salvation, but that is what the Lord wants me to do, so being a sheep, I follow after him and I do what he tells me to do.

I suspect you do the same. This is not a false and twisted doctrine.
Ya know, benhur, I think the works you're talking about are the relational works based upon covenant agreement not according to earning salvation or keeping salvation. If this is so, I agree with you! :)(y)
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
AMEN....a gospel of a different kind with no power to save, double cursed and all who believe it according to Paul are bewitched and foolish.....

He that believes on the Son is having everlasting life..........end of story.
Then I am saved, because I believe on the Son. If I do a little extra works for the glory of God, what is that to anybody?
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
4,823
2,373
113
There are 3 Persons in the Trinity. God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So although Jesus is God, he is not God the Father, and that is who Jesus was referring to as the only one that was good. So his reply to this man is a little confusing.

If Jesus was referring to himself as God, why would he say "why callest me good", and seem to be referring to someone else?

It is just a little interesting.

In my world, I can imagine that God can give freely His love. But it is like, He is also mighty in giving mercy. But we know that if we are not merciful, like Him, He can take His mercy away and throw us in prison. I believe that if God gives us His love freely, we must be willing to give love too, and if we decide to be a hater, then God may be willing to take His love away from us, until we figure it out and repent and return love for love.
Yes, there are 3 - God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit - all 3 are One God.

Jesus' reply is not confusing. Jesus was not referring to someone else. Jesus was not denying that He is good - He simply asked WHY do you call Me good? This question was to help open the man's eyes that Jesus is the Son of God and that is WHY Jesus IS good NOT because He is a man doing good works - ONLY God is good.

I do believe God can and does take His mercy away from us at times, however, NEVER does He take His love away from us.

Yes, God's objective with us is LOVE. That we would receive God's love for us and love Him, too. Also, that we would give and receive God's love for other people and ourselves.

I've enjoyed chatting with you, benhur! :love:
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,707
3,641
113
So again, if God does not call us, then he automatically damns us to hell fire for eternity. We have no choice. Does not sound like a fair plan to me.
I see what you are saying here.

I think God calls everyone, but not everyone will accept.

But there are verses like the following

Ephesians 1:3-6

Redemption in Christ
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

The truth is for me is that we have no idea who will accept him.
The truth is that we can and do have a preconceived thoughts on those who we know will accept/reject the Gospel.

I feel foul of that, shame on me.

We have no idea who God will save, so we must but judge, press on in love and keep doing so.

At some point I think God does say "Time to give up"
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
Anyone who "adds works", to our eternal salvation in any way shape or form is pushing a false gospel.
amen, not by sight, not by way, not by shape, not by form

ok, that's an insight, but don't take my word on this comment as scripture

come to think of it, I'm surprised of how easy it is for people to say non-scriptural stuff that sounds like scripture to the untrained ears
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
2,710
3,069
113
59
So again, if God does not call us, then he automatically damns us to hell fire for eternity. We have no choice. Does not sound like a fair plan to me.
God raised Pharaoh up for His glory , He had no intentions of bringing him to heaven , God is just , do you think it was fair that God hardened Pharaohs heart , or was that unjust to you...xox...
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, for in that fear, we know to the depth of our bones and deep in our soul that God, as creator of the universe and giver of life, has every right to with us as He so chooses.
want to know what it's like to fear God and fear what God can allow in a person's life?
read @Demi777 's testimony
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
immortal!
last for only one turn

this is the most fundamental contradiction that exist for those who believe that eternal life is losable

as in,
eternal!
losable within this temporary lifetime
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
I see what you are saying here.

I think God calls everyone, but not everyone will accept.

But there are verses like the following

Ephesians 1:3-6

Redemption in Christ
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

The truth is for me is that we have no idea who will accept him.
The truth is that we can and do have a preconceived thoughts on those who we know will accept/reject the Gospel.

I feel foul of that, shame on me.

We have no idea who God will save, so we must but judge, press on in love and keep doing so.

At some point I think God does say "Time to give up"
we must but judge <-- here's a hint: don't read too fast when you sense "wait a minute" when you read something that sounds off like "we must by judge" or something, ironically, the advice is summed up in four words "we must but (keyword: but) judge"

disclaimer: if anything is perceived as immature in this comment, it's unintended