Not By Works

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,069
2,946
113
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



Do you believe that a brother can hate his brother and somehow still have eternal life?




JPT
now you just asking silly, trap questions.


these Scriptures are clear.

so is believe in the name of the Son and love one another,

if you are obeying this, then you will not kill or steal.
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,806
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why do you fight so hard against John's words?

why do you reject the words of a man who walked with Jesus?

John said to keep the commands. then he explained what those commands were.

I do not see a problem, but you are manufacturing one....


Why do you fight against John’s words.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Are you saying we do not need to keep His commandments?


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



Are you saying we don’t need to obey His doctrine?



Be honest.


Do you believe we need to obey Jesus Christ and His commandments and doctrine?


Yes or no?





JPT
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
68,776
7,048
113
Sinners are separated from from Him.



For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;
Hebrews 7:26




JPT

Sinners are separated from Him? Then what was the point of Him dying on the cross FOR AND WITH SINNERS??
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,806
473
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now you just asking silly, trap questions.


these Scriptures are clear.

so is believe in the name of the Son and love one another,

if you are obeying this, then you will not kill or steal.

If you do not kill, then you are obeying the commandment to not kill.



If you do not hate then you are obeying the commandment to not murder.



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15





JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,806
473
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Do us all a favor, and list all of the things we have to do to remain saved.

Then list the things that will cause us to lose our salvation.

Be specific, as this is quite important.

Obey the Spirit of Christ within you, the truth.



  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8



Do us all a favor and tells us where you stand.



Do you need to obey the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved?



Yes or No?




JPT
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,314
15,069
113
Holla! Como esta usted?
Ich bin gut, sitze am Holzofen, beobachte die Röhre und tippe auf CC,
und du?

HAHAHAHHAHA TRANSLATED -->I am good, sitting by the wood stove, watching the tube and typing in CC, AND you?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,314
15,069
113
The word of God is spiritual in nature and origin....the natural man cannot know and or spiritually discern the word....this alone proves that works or obedience does not save and or help maintain salvation....One must be born from above before they can even begin to spiritually discern the word, much less obey it..................even the message of salvation by grace through faith must BE revealed by the Spirit of God before one can even be saved and then after one has been born again eternally from above by incorruptible SEED, a process of growth and maturity must ensue through sanctification and transformation to teach people how they are to live.......

Saved by faith is the first step before ANYONE can know, discern, obey, serve or walk in a pleasing manner..........
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,069
2,946
113
Why do you fight against John’s words.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Are you saying we do not need to keep His commandments?


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



Are you saying we don’t need to obey His doctrine?



Be honest.


Do you believe we need to obey Jesus Christ and His commandments and doctrine?


Yes or no?





JPT
I am saying yes.

Jesus said who believes in Him be saved, who does not believe will be condemned.

Jesus gave a new command, love one another as I have loved you.

John echoed these words " believe in the name of the Son and love one another".

yes, I believe these, as written, nothing added.

do you accept these as written, or will you continue to twist and distort it?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,314
15,069
113
I am saying yes.

Jesus said who believes in Him be saved, who does not believe will be condemned.

Jesus gave a new command, love one another as I have loved you.

John echoed these words " believe in the name of the Son and love one another".

yes, I believe these, as written, nothing added.

do you accept these as written, or will you continue to twist and distort it?
Tragically, many are just a waste of time.......they refuse to be open to the truth and will not accept any truth not hammered on their own anvil.......all I know is JESUS was clear on the number that will come before him claiming him as LORD and expecting to enter based upon what they have done in his name.....the same dogma that all workers for, Pharisees and Cainologists peddle.....

LORD, LORD have WE NOT DONE.......................He is just another one on the list
 

BrotherMike

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2018
623
700
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how can "you" know someone has good works? And is not just religious?

You can't so what good is it? God does not need it, You can't use it to determine someone elses salvation, so other than you examining you own faith, what good is it?
My mindset is always God's going to do the judging on that, my responsibility is to love one another <3
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
158
43
I absolutely do acknowledge that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, as do all believers. I acknowledge Jesus as Lord who came in the flesh and taught regarding eternal life. John 3:14 - As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 6:28 - Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day ... 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

John 11:25 - Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply giving lip service to the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation.

Trusting and believing in Jesus does not include trusting in works for salvation. (John 6:28-29; Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) That's trusting in self. I've heard numerous works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics, Mormons and SDA's along with other misguided teachers of the law) cite Matthew 19:16-30 in their efforts to pervert the gospel and teach salvation by works.

Jesus was testing this rich young man who confidently and (self righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms. Yet Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing in Jesus. The rich young man missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches (vs. 21-23). The rich young man went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life.

*If keeping the commandments is the basis or means by which we "obtain" eternal life, then why isn't this remark the pattern for all discussions concerning eternal life? Why didn't Jesus mention "keeping the commandments" IN ADDITION to believing in Him in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26? Why didn't Peter say, "whoever keeps the commandments" shall receive remission of sins in Acts 10:43? Instead, Peter said - .."whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. Why didn't Paul mention to the jailer who asked, "what must I do to be saved?" (Acts 16:30) by replying in Acts 16:31, "keep the commandments, and you will be saved?" Instead, Paul said - "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.."

Jesus knows the hearts of all men and responds to each individual a little differently because He knows where their need is. He didn't respond to the woman at the well, or to Nicodemus or to the rich young man the exact same way, yet the consistent pattern in scripture is obtaining eternal life through believing in Him/faith in Christ. *BTW nobody has "perfectly obeyed" all the commandments (except for Jesus) and the Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" which means to guard, observe, watch over and not perfectly obey. In 1 John 2:3, we read - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already have come to know Him - John 17:3) if we keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. This is the demonstrative evidence that we have already come to know Him/are already saved.

I was once in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who claims that he did not teach salvation by works, then afterwards contracted himself by making this statement below:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

*Notice how this Roman Catholic re-defined faith to "include" works and the end result is salvation through faith + works. *Works-salvationists in general make this same error.

*In context, who was Jesus addressing here? - The Pharisees and scribes. NOT believers.

Descriptive of works-salvationists (Matthew 7:21-23)

Yes, go makes disciples, baptize converts and teach them to obey everything Jesus has commanded, which does not include teaching and seeking salvation by works.

I find it interesting that LGW (prior to getting banned from CC) quoted this scripture a lot and accused believers of failing to hears the words of Jesus and keep them, yet LGW perverted the gospel by teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."

I acknowledge and humbly receive the true teachings of the Lord and I also trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. I just don't trust and believe in your misinterpretation of scripture that results in works salvation.
Amen to the scriptures you quoted. I have no intention to misinterpret or twist them to suit my belief.

I asked you if you acknowledge Jesus' teachings and what i get is the same old crap of separating works from faith which causes division and never ending disagreement.

....If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

Again, here's what Jesus said;

...Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. John 14:21-24

If you cannot humbly accept Jesus' teachings about obedience to God's commands then you do not obey His teachings and therefore you do not love Him which also means that you hate Him.

But you said in your last paragraph that you acknowledge and humbly receive(accept) Jesus' true teachings which would imply that you humbly accepted His teachings as it is without any misinterpretation. Am i right? Then you said that you just don't trust and believe in my misinterpretation of scriptures.

My question is who misinterpreted scriptures?
Here's what the bible says;

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

Who is he who is rejecting, and who promotes obedience to God's commands?

Who is misinterpreting scriptures and is therefore a liar?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,115
1,546
113
To believe and to obey is aimed at the gospel message of Jesus and the blood of His Cross. This is the doctrine of Christ. And as the book of revelation states....no man can add anything to the unveiling of the truth of the Sacrifice that Father has offered to the world. I would think He Himself would be quite miffed about this.

So again, Fran and JPT... I ask you. What does it mean to be obedient to the faith?

Then one can speak about the works of Spirit, not flesh.