Not By Works

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stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
you can be saved and remain among the nations of the saved: losing reward of a crown of life. "Some will be saved but as through fire but will lose their reward," they do not become eternal with God: not the Bride. The salvation you described applies to all men. "Jesus the saviour of all men, especially of them that believe." "The sea will give up the dead that are in them, death and hell will give up the dead that are in them, and everyone will be judged according their works."
"All manner of sin shall be forgiven to man but rejecting the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to man." Remaining divided in spirit, we do not remain in Christ: Revelation 3:15. Self sufficiency is what disqualifies the rich.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Oh my, how some people twist the Word of God to suit their beliefs. If God says we are saved if we believe in Jesus Christ and believe with faith unto eternal salvation, that's all I need to know.
AMEN............conflation station and Mr and Mrs. Twisty.......they are all found here.....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is to deny Christ and his work as being from God <---a state of unbelief....those who will not believe-->They cannot be forgiven!
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
158
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Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is to deny Christ and his work as being from God <---a state of unbelief....those who will not believe-->They cannot be forgiven!
...What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God. WHAT IF SOME DID NOT HAVE FAITH? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! LET GOD BE TRUE, and every man A LIAR. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is deserved.

...Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY AND SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL. Isaiah 5:20-24

...If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:26-29

...As God’s fellow workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. 2 Corinthians 6:1

...For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and DENY JESUS CHRIST our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
3,989
1,818
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Please show me the scripture you are referring to.
What are you talking about? I asked you to do two things:

Once again:

List all of the things we have to do to remain saved.

Then list the things that will cause us to lose our salvation.

And don't answer with the usual, vague "obey the commands/doctrine of Jesus", I want you to be specific.

Because I can bet you this, you won't come out smelling like a rose when your Law heavy, pharisaical requirements get thrown back on you.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,160
164
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64
Walk trough the valley
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is to deny Christ and his work as being from God <---a state of unbelief....those who will not believe-->They cannot be forgiven!
Ananias and his wife denied the Holy Spirit, lying to the Holy Ghost by not giving all and saying they did: remaining divided with a life for themselves and living a lye in hiding. They were not required to give all unless they were ready and willing to go on to perfection. but Lying about it stopped them short on their journey to the cross permanently. I think they were the first to commit this and why they died so people would know the consequences of remaining living a lye. Denying the Holy Ghost can be simply not forgiving and being forgiven, remaining in our sin. "If I have not Love I am nothing." Jesus said that denying or rejecting Him would be forgiven, otherwise all of His disciples would have been lost on the night of His betrayal. Betraying believers to death as Judas did to Jesus, is likely also rejecting the Holy Spirit, but this discussion is about permitted to go on to perfection, as it's impossible without the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will not be divided and requires our whole heart, and this is why many believers are stuck at 12 years of age, sharing their experience with God in the temple as Jesus did and amazing others with their knowledge but unable to go further until they: Enter in as a little child and put away your divided spirit. The Lord told me this word 15 years ago. Then asked Him how old I was in spirit as a little child, He said 12. A few weeks later when I was sinning He said: Come to my house, I'm coming to my house. A year later when I was still sinning and repenting, woke up the next morning, hearing: "This kind does not come out but by prayer and fasting." the parable meaning of the child falling in the fire and water is falling in burning desire and the nations we came out of to be in Christ, who is above the nations. I am still stumbling along 41 years after the first time the Lord spoke to me, but at that time I thought I knew a lot, now can persevere to learn of the Lord as a friend, that's step 2 of 1John 2: where he addresses fathers: having entered in. step 3 "Young men because you are strong and know the word of God dwells in you and have overcome the evil one." these have put away their divided spirit and are permitted to go on to perfection and become saints. I am still at step 2 learning to persevere, I think that means I'm still 12. "Many are called but few are chosen." "Those who have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin." "If we suffer with Him we shall rule with Him."
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,160
164
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Walk trough the valley
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is to deny Christ and his work as being from God <---a state of unbelief....those who will not believe-->They cannot be forgiven!
The trouble with your view is that Jesus said that denying Him would be forgiven, and we all at one time or another. Also those who deny Jesus under persecution can be forgiven and go on to perfection as Peter did. Rest assured that we can rest assured, I don't need to fix anything and 3 years ago the Holy Spirit told me: I don't need your help. As you know from the word even if we understood perfectly doesn't qualify us to go on to perfection. Pride and dead works is the dross that must be removed.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,343
15,112
113
Ananias and his wife denied the Holy Spirit, lying to the Holy Ghost by not giving all and saying they did: remaining divided with a life for themselves and living a lye in hiding. They were not required to give all unless they were ready and willing to go on to perfection. but Lying about it stopped them short on their journey to the cross permanently. I think they were the first to commit this and why they died so people would know the consequences of remaining living a lye. Denying the Holy Ghost can be simply not forgiving and being forgiven, remaining in our sin. "If I have not Love I am nothing." Jesus said that denying or rejecting Him would be forgiven, otherwise all of His disciples would have been lost on the night of His betrayal. Betraying believers to death as Judas did to Jesus, is likely also rejecting the Holy Spirit, but this discussion is about permitted to go on to perfection, as it's impossible without the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will not be divided and requires our whole heart, and this is why many believers are stuck at 12 years of age, sharing their experience with God in the temple as Jesus did and amazing others with their knowledge but unable to go further until they: Enter in as a little child and put away your divided spirit. The Lord told me this word 15 years ago. Then asked Him how old I was in spirit as a little child, He said 12. A few weeks later when I was sinning He said: Come to my house, I'm coming to my house. A year later when I was still sinning and repenting, woke up the next morning, hearing: "This kind does not come out but by prayer and fasting." the parable meaning of the child falling in the fire and water is falling in burning desire and the nations we came out of to be in Christ, who is above the nations. I am still stumbling along 41 years after the first time the Lord spoke to me, but at that time I thought I knew a lot, now can persevere to learn of the Lord as a friend, that's step 2 of 1John 2: where he addresses fathers: having entered in. step 3 "Young men because you are strong and know the word of God dwells in you and have overcome the evil one." these have put away their divided spirit and are permitted to go on to perfection and become saints. I am still at step 2 learning to persevere, I think that means I'm still 12. "Many are called but few are chosen." "Those who have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin." "If we suffer with Him we shall rule with Him."
They were killed because they lied to God and conspired to do it......end of story!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,343
15,112
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The trouble with your view is that Jesus said that denying Him would be forgiven, and we all at one time or another. Also those who deny Jesus under persecution can be forgiven and go on to perfection as Peter did. Rest assured that we can rest assured, I don't need to fix anything and 3 years ago the Holy Spirit told me: I don't need your help. As you know from the word even if we understood perfectly doesn't qualify us to go on to perfection. Pride and dead works is the dross that must be removed.
There is not a problem with my stance.....go read it again and to whom it is given......the Pharisees which stated JESUS was casting out demons by the prince of demons....they did not believe he was of or from GOD...hence they COULD not be forgiven....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,343
15,112
113
What are you talking about? I asked you to do two things:

Once again:

List all of the things we have to do to remain saved.

Then list the things that will cause us to lose our salvation.

And don't answer with the usual, vague "obey the commands/doctrine of Jesus", I want you to be specific.

Because I can bet you this, you won't come out smelling like a rose when your Law heavy, pharisaical requirements get thrown back on you.
AMEN........what is peddled is a working for I save myself drivel and exactly why you will not get a truthful answer migo......
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,160
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Walk trough the valley
The reason its called blaspheming the Holy Spirit, is having rejected Him leaves us to be filled with violence witch is the mark of the enemy. I am not saying that a person who cant forgive has rejected the Holy Spirit as we all come to a place where we cant and need the Holy Spirit and He is patient with us to turn to Him for help.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,160
164
63
64
Walk trough the valley
There is not a problem with my stance.....go read it again and to whom it is given......the Pharisees which stated JESUS was casting out demons by the prince of demons....they did not believe he was of or from GOD...hence they COULD not be forgiven....
They did not believe He had the Spirit of God, it has to be about the Holy Spirit as Jesus Said that blasphemy against Him would be forgiven.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,160
164
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Walk trough the valley
They did not believe He had the Spirit of God, it has to be about the Holy Spirit as Jesus Said that blasphemy against Him would be forgiven.
Not believing (following) Jesus the Son of God in His death and resurrection is forgiven and we all come short of the glory of God.
Not believing (following) the Holy Ghost is not walking in Love and if I have all knowledge and understand all mysteries (including the mystery of God "gathering all things in Christ of things in heaven and things in earth including Boudists and Mohamed and what have you} and have not Love I am nothing.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
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What are you talking about? I asked you to do two things:

Once again:

List all of the things we have to do to remain saved.

Then list the things that will cause us to lose our salvation.

And don't answer with the usual, vague "obey the commands/doctrine of Jesus", I want you to be specific.

Because I can bet you this, you won't come out smelling like a rose when your Law heavy, pharisaical requirements get thrown back on you.
You mean ...born again...right?

Because we are not .....saved ....on this earth and not until we appear before the judgement seat of G-d. Then we are saved and it cannot be taken away. Born again status ...can be lost.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,003
2,860
113
Oh my, it got even COLDER. It is -3 degrees Fahrenheit. HRR-BRR !


1548827753695.jpeg
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,160
164
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Walk trough the valley
You mean ...born again...right?

Because we are not .....saved ....on this earth and not until we appear before the judgement seat of G-d. Then we are saved and it cannot be taken away. Born again status ...can be lost.
Towards the end of His life Paul "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the Faith, from now on there is kept for me a crown of Life and not for me only but for all who Love His appearing." Though I agree with you that in this life we can fall and we do. those in step 3 like Paul who have already suffered and died and sent back are overcomers and ready to appear before God, John also, you know what I mean those who are Saints means they are full to overflow of the Holy Spirit to touch those around them. Many are called but few are chosen. I don't consider to have attained but I press on...
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,160
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Walk trough the valley
Step 3 In 1John chapter 2 "Young men who are strong and know the word of God dwels in them and have overcome the evil one."
"Not my will but Yours be done"
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,160
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Walk trough the valley
Not by works is uncovering a lot of work, lol dead works include thinking we are right and others wrong. Including the reformation, magnifying this dualistic thinking in knowledge of good and evil: dominance of ego as the fruit. "They parted my garments among them and cast lots for my vesture" The vesture was a seamless robe representing the Holy spirit will not be divided. Until we reckonise the Holy Spirit poured out on all flesh and discern the Body of Christ among us, we are weak and sick and asleep, and would think we have arrived. May the Lord have compassion on us