Not By Works

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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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The word of God is spiritual in nature and origin....the natural man cannot know and or spiritually discern the word....this alone proves that works or obedience does not save and or help maintain salvation....One must be born from above before they can even begin to spiritually discern the word, much less obey it..................even the message of salvation by grace through faith must BE revealed by the Spirit of God before one can even be saved and then after one has been born again eternally from above by incorruptible SEED, a process of growth and maturity must ensue through sanctification and transformation to teach people how they are to live.......

Saved by faith is the first step before ANYONE can know, discern, obey, serve or walk in a pleasing manner..........
Just getting caught up. I see you said the same.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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I saw this in the thread, and it occurred to me just today that if one believes in "limited atonement" then one basically has to lie to people when they tell them that Christ Jesus died for their sin?

It could be a lie since there is a good chance that Christ Jesus did not die for their sins?

Am I missing something?
I think so;

G-d chooses NO ONE to be lost. G-d desires that ALL receive eternal salvation.
But, there are those who will not follow G-d's commandments, they will not seek born again status and live a righteous life, they will be lost.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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I am not anti Catholic and have stated numerous times in CC that I believe some are probably saved.......the statements you have made about me are false and misleading.....I am 100% opposed to Catholic dogma and one would have to be totally dishonest with the facts to say or even believe that Jesus recognizes the Catholic church as one of his...........from it's founding, to what it espouses, to it's history of murder, forced religion, the doctrine it teaches and pushes, enthronement of the POPE, worship of idols, worship of MARY and her INTERCESSORY ability, and embracing ecumenism while attempting to bring ALL religions under the same banner, including ISLAM and JUDAISM PROVES they are not of GOD and or one of the LORD'S churches..........and too be as frank as I can......I cannot believe ANY saved child of God that has an inkling of truth would say or embrace them as being from God


That I am happy to hear, because I was fearing you hated all Catholics. Yes even the Lord has a problem with there Dogma, but He has issues with Protestant Dogma too.


Revelation 2:14-16 (HCSB)
14 But I have a few things against you. You have some there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to place a stumbling block in front of the Israelites: to eat meat sacrificed to idols and to commit sexual immorality.
15 In the same way, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans.
16 Therefore repent! Otherwise, I will come to you quickly and fight against them with the sword of My mouth.



I do not know, but I suspect the Nicolaitans may have been the origin of the Catholic Church. Their History has been almost totally erased.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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That I am happy to hear, because I was fearing you hated all Catholics. Yes even the Lord has a problem with there Dogma, but He has issues with Protestant Dogma too.


Revelation 2:14-16 (HCSB)
14 But I have a few things against you. You have some there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to place a stumbling block in front of the Israelites: to eat meat sacrificed to idols and to commit sexual immorality.
15 In the same way, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans.
16 Therefore repent! Otherwise, I will come to you quickly and fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
Sure, he has issue with any dogma that contradicts his word.........and for the record...I have Catholic friends and Catholic family members that are as nice and sincere as anyone I know....but lost nonetheless based upon their beliefs.....just saying
 
Oct 31, 2015
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You're being vague because you really don't know, do you?

Tell me, if one loses their salvation, can they be saved again?

Please show me the scripture you are referring to.


Then you can answer my question.


Do you need to obey the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved?



Yes or No?



JLB
 
Oct 31, 2015
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I am saying yes.

Jesus said who believes in Him be saved, who does not believe will be condemned.

Yes as in we don’t need to His doctrine to be saved?


Again, believe means obey.


Demons believe, but they obey Satan.


Those who do not continue in the doctrine of Christ, no longer has God.



Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9





JLB
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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We all do it.
Even belivers turn their back on God.
Have you never done that?
Ever been disobedient to his word?

Would be interested to know your thoughts on "Disobedient to his word?

What is the word that we are disobedient to?
I meant completely turn away from God and operate in the World's ways again.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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*Notice that Paul said to "work out" your salvation and not "work for" your salvation. When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not to get a body. Farmers "work" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have.

The Greek verb rendered "work out" means "to continually work to bring something to completion or fruition." We do this by actively pursuing the process of ongoing sanctification, which is the result of being set apart for God's work and involves the process of being conformed to the image of Christ. This conforming to Christ involves the work of the person, but it is still God working in the believer to produce more of a godly character and life in the person who has already been justified by faith.

Even if we don't live a sinless, perfect life 100% of the time (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ (Romans 5:1). Where justification is a legal declaration that is instantaneous, ongoing sanctification is a process. There are 3 tenses to salvation that often get confused by those who teach salvation by works:

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)
Curious why Paul said to do it with fear and trembling.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Salvation instructions were given by Peter on the Day of Pentecost. His instructions confirm what Jesus Himself stated in Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16-17, etc.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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Sometimes I try doing works so I can "feel" as though I am earning God's pleasure about me. Then I catch myself and understand nothing I can do would ever be good enough. I do believe in working for the Lord but not unto salvation.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,343
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Sometimes I try doing works so I can "feel" as though I am earning God's pleasure about me. Then I catch myself and understand nothing I can do would ever be good enough. I do believe in working for the Lord but not unto salvation.
AMEN...saved FOR not BY.................and I am convinced that it is the little things.....like JESUS said.....even a cup of water in his name will not go unnoticed and or unrewarded..............
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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You're being vague because you really don't know, do you?

Tell me, if one loses their salvation, can they be saved again?
...It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned. Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation. God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised. Hebrews 6:4-12
It seems like even lieing to the Holy Spirit is allowed in your OSAS group.

Here's what the bible says;

...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

You have just exposed the true colors of OSAS believers and I see those who agreed with you.

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.Ephesians 5:6

...And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. Romans 13:11
Yes, they were saved. The Bible says all who were there were believers. As I've said many times, God does chastise His children, even to the point of taking them home, but they can never be lost.

At the moment of conversion, one is saved forever. Even if they walk away later. They couldn't go to hell if they tried. If salvation is truly a gift, and grace actually unmerited, this has to be so.
...These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.” 2 Peter 2:17-22
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
It takes perseverance, longsuffering and endurance to prepare and be permitted in the will of God, "And this we will do if God permits." "God resists the proud," sadly they think they have attained already: if you think you know you have become a teenager who thinks he knows already, that has stopped learning and cant get a Job: called but not chosen. How do you persevere through longsuffering, where work is no longer work? Having the mentality of an athlete who has been disqualified from work by the Government of heaven that He may develop his gift without being encumbered by the works of the law to prove himself. He has been made qualified already and is now under obligation to work from a place of rest, no longer glorying in His achievement as it's the Government supporting Him. This doesn't mean quit your job but do it from a place of rest as well. The purpose of work was to enter into rest. A house built so that we would have a place to Live and move and have our being in God: to see Jesus, "In everything give thanks...
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
921
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Oh my, how some people twist the Word of God to suit their beliefs. If God says we are saved if we believe in Jesus Christ and believe with faith unto eternal salvation, that's all I need to know.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
Oh my, how some people twist the Word of God to suit their beliefs. If God says we are saved if we believe in Jesus Christ and believe with faith unto eternal salvation, that's all I need to know.
you can be saved and remain among the nations of the saved: losing reward of a crown of life. "Some will be saved but as through fire but will lose their reward," they do not become eternal with God: not the Bride. The salvation you described applies to all men. "Jesus the saviour of all men, especially of them that believe." "The sea will give up the dead that are in them, death and hell will give up the dead that are in them, and everyone will be judged according their works."