Not By Works

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CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
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One of my most fav verses...

Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
Jude 1:24‭-‬25 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/jud.1.24-25.NASB
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
It is not about salvation..........context PAL...........and a reward is not a GIFT.....the GIFT is IRREVOCABLE....maybe study that word and open your eyes........

The bible says IRREVOCABLE and YOU and your pals say REVOCABLE.......one of you is wrong......!
You have not done anything other than post your opinion by subjective comments which have no bearing on the scripture cited. 1 Corinthians 9:23-27 is what is being discussed. Make your point there. Your comments earlier in regards to Paul being disqualified from the ministry is not support by the context of the passage you were discussing. Here the post is again. Prove it wrong within the passage.

Disqualified; castaway; rejected not much difference.
CONTEXT shows a disqualification alright.

It implies no finish of the race. One crown to be awarded. An nonperishable one. And this my friend is only given to those who finish.

Contexts implies no crown because the race is not finished due to a disqualification.

1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Partaker of what? The Gospel with you.
If someone is not partaking of the Gospel are they saved?
NO they are not.
"Might be a partaker" is being spoken in the subjunctive mood. The mood of possibilities. In other words His partaking of the Gospel is not a given. There is a possibility that he will not. This comes out even clearer as we continue.

In respect to verse 23's proclamation Paul continues.

1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

So run that ye might obtain.
Obtain what? Salvation through the life in Christ; the Gospel.

1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

So let us Run temperate in all things that we might obtain the crown that is imperishable; eternal life through Christ.

1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

I therefore so run; temperate in all things that I might obtain the crown that is imperishable; eternal life, Paul says.

1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Paul says "Lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

Cast; Disqualified from what? The Race he himself is running.That He might obtain the crown that is imperishable; eternal life,[/QUOTE]
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,978
5,452
113
There is revelation that comes from Holy Spirit so for you to state that what's revealed of the Word comes from grey cells, is untrue. Unless it's revealed from heaven, it's just words on paper.
That was a rather silly question to ask in relation to what was put to him. I pointed out some have a trinity of Father, Son and the bible. They rely on their little grey cells to learn rather than the Holy Spirit so he replied as he did. Though if you believe questions should firstly be answered, a couple of days ago I asked him to do an exegesis for me and he refused, so he should be responding to my request first. Why not start a thread on Trinity if you want to discuss it, this one is not by works
God gave us grey cells to use.....ie ......test the spirits
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,870
380
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HBG. Pa. USA
God gave us grey cells to use.....ie ......test the spirits
As you know Spiritual things are Spiritually discerned. And Sometimes that is done through a Lexicon or some other help; be it a person or whatever. GOD has provided many venues through HIS Spirit to put Light on HIS intent.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,798
2,586
113
As you know Spiritual things are Spiritually discerned. And Sometimes that is done through a Lexicon or some other help; be it a person or whatever. GOD has provided many venues through HIS Spirit to put Light on HIS intent.
well, the sprit that led you to think you have to keep the Sabbath to be saved was not the Holy Sprit.

the Holy Sprit does not lie.

Sabbath for salvation is a lie.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,798
2,586
113
You are quite welcome to get any idea you want. If this subject interests you, why do you not answer the two questions.
I will answer the 2 questions if you ask them to me.

then I will expect you to answer the question that m.m.d. asked you .
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
43
I will answer the 2 questions if you ask them to me.

then I will expect you to answer the question that m.m.d. asked you .
Answer correctly, but discussing trinity is for a debate on trinity, not here

My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them(believers) may be one,Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as(AS) we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me

How can believers be in Father and Son as they are in each other?
How can believers be one as(AS) Father and Son are one?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,798
2,586
113
Answer correctly, but discussing trinity is for a debate on trinity

My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them(believers) may be one,Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as(AS) we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me

How can believers be in Father and Son as they are in each other?
How can believers be one as(AS) Father and Son are one?
nope. no answer from me unless you guarantee to answer the Jesus question.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
6,762
2,631
113
That was a rather silly question to ask in relation to what was put to him. I pointed out some have a trinity of Father, Son and the bible. They rely on their little grey cells to learn rather than the Holy Spirit so he replied as he did. Though if you believe questions should firstly be answered, a couple of days ago I asked him to do an exegesis for me and he refused, so he should be responding to my request first. Why not start a thread on Trinity if you want to discuss it, this one is not by works
I believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as MMD believes and many more on this sight.

But I do like to learn and research and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to me.

The grey matter is very complex and is affected by life.
Is it wrong to use the grey matter asking the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth whilst reading the Bible and using other resources?

For me I would say no it's not.

Sometimes paradigms need to be shifted.
Wrong paradigms need to be replaced by the truth.

A simple example is that God does not love us if we mess up.
So the word love here is one that a person thinks is conditional upon performance.
That's not an Agape love.

But we know his love is Agape.

Agape is the Greek for unconditional love.
You are still loved even when you fail and you are not going to get a beating.

So a faulty paradigm that needs replacing with correct paradigm.

A shift that replaces lies with the truth.

That is one of my paradigms that need replacing.
Along with many others, along with one that was along the lines of "You don't really have a true faith"

I could give more.

As Paul says we need to renew the mind.
If we have to do so then something is wrong in our thinking.

And I genuinely believe that research and resources can and do help.
It will only help if we come before God with an open mind and pray "What is it I'm not getting here?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,817
13,205
113
You have not done anything other than post your opinion by subjective comments which have no bearing on the scripture cited. 1 Corinthians 9:23-27 is what is being discussed. Make your point there. Your comments earlier in regards to Paul being disqualified from the ministry is not support by the context of the passage you were discussing. Here the post is again. Prove it wrong within the passage.

Disqualified; castaway; rejected not much difference.
CONTEXT shows a disqualification alright.

It implies no finish of the race. One crown to be awarded. An nonperishable one. And this my friend is only given to those who finish.

Contexts implies no crown because the race is not finished due to a disqualification.

1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Partaker of what? The Gospel with you.
If someone is not partaking of the Gospel are they saved?
NO they are not.
"Might be a partaker" is being spoken in the subjunctive mood. The mood of possibilities. In other words His partaking of the Gospel is not a given. There is a possibility that he will not. This comes out even clearer as we continue.

In respect to verse 23's proclamation Paul continues.

1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

So run that ye might obtain.
Obtain what? Salvation through the life in Christ; the Gospel.

1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

So let us Run temperate in all things that we might obtain the crown that is imperishable; eternal life through Christ.

1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

I therefore so run; temperate in all things that I might obtain the crown that is imperishable; eternal life, Paul says.

1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Paul says "Lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

Cast; Disqualified from what? The Race he himself is running.That He might obtain the crown that is imperishable; eternal life,
[/QUOTE]

Context Lightsaber........my stance is good.....so is the use of the word within the context....it is not about losing salvation......maybe one of these days you might figure it out Lightbulb
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,798
2,586
113
I don't think nor share that.
o.k. maybe you have changed your beliefs.

so, if a believer chooses to keep the twilight fri. to twilight sat. , that is fine.

if a believer chooses to rest on the Lord's day, then that is fine also.

if a believer rests on any day ( God's way, one day a week to rest) then that is fine also.

agree or not?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
6,762
2,631
113
One of my most fav verses...

Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
Jude 1:24‭-‬25 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/jud.1.24-25.NASB
Here is my favourite one.

John 17:23
23 I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me.

God loves us as much as he loves Jesus.

What a release for me.
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
43
I believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as MMD believes and many more on this sight.

But I do like to learn and research and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to me.

The grey matter is very complex and is affected by life.
Is it wrong to use the grey matter asking the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth whilst reading the Bible and using other resources?

For me I would say no it's not.

Sometimes paradigms need to be shifted.
Wrong paradigms need to be replaced by the truth.

A simple example is that God does not love us if we mess up.
So the word love here is one that a person thinks is conditional upon performance.
That's not an Agape love.

But we know his love is Agape.

Agape is the Greek for unconditional love.
You are still loved even when you fail and you are not going to get a beating.

So a faulty paradigm that needs replacing with correct paradigm.

A shift that replaces lies with the truth.

That is one of my paradigms that need replacing.
Along with many others, along with one that was along the lines of "You don't really have a true faith"

I could give more.

As Paul says we need to renew the mind.
If we have to do so then something is wrong in our thinking.

And I genuinely believe that research and resources can and do help.
It will only help if we come before God with an open mind and pray "What is it I'm not getting here?
Can I ask you something?
If I wanted understanding of the following for example, would concordances be needed or helpful? Or, would I need the Holy Spirit solely to inform/enlighten me when specifically in Paul's life he was referring to and how/why sin could take occasion of the commandment to arouse all manner of concupiscence in him, and the rest of the passage to?


What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.


9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.


11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. rom7:7-11
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,798
2,586
113
Probably wise, I doubt you could answer them both anyway
so, why do you think it is o.k for you to what your questions answered when you will not answer questions posed to you?

how is this thought process fair or honest?
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
43
so, why do you think it is o.k for you to what your questions answered when you will not answer questions posed to you?

how is this thought process fair or honest?
I simply asked you if you wanted to answer them, you are as free to refuse as I am