Not By Works

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FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
Exactly why salvation is a PRESENT ETERNAL POSSESSION at the moment of belief
Hi dcontroversal,

As you propose we have a present eternal possession at the moment of belief, when is this and how do we know?
And when did this happen to you?

We could have accidental eternal believers wondering around, or fake believers thinking its happened when nothing
has actually happened. I think we need an eternal possession indicator machine to show us what what, and make
sure only the right people are here ..... Do not the army of the Lord with their swinging swords know who to chop and
who to miss, as you seem to like to relate your ministry is?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,502
2,576
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I have to tell you brother....I love some of the phrases you use HAHAH you make me laugh all the time......
Thanks bro. the doityourself IKEA salvation term comes from me trying to put together some IKEA furniture. Its quite cheap so I bought a shelf there and it came in bits and pieces. I could of gotten it done quicker by going to the woods myself chopping some wood and starting from scratch! :D
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Exactly why salvation is a PRESENT ETERNAL POSSESSION at the moment of belief
What?
Jesus' sacrifice always existed.
Not YOU.

I agree with you that salvation is a present possession....
As long as you remain IN CHRIST you will have that possession.

Jesus is the life...
outside of Him there is no life.

1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

No comment required.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,638
1,808
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To obey my spiritual well being to Jesus, I believe His Cross of sacrifice. But, It's Father that I am obeying when I believe His Son. He gave His Son.

Your question has nothing to do with the subject.[/QUOTE }

I mean't entrust my spiritual wellbeing but it is obedience to do so.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
To obey my spiritual well being to Jesus, I believe His Cross of sacrifice. But, It's Father that I am obeying when I believe His Son. He gave His Son.

Your question has nothing to do with the subject.
So what do you think Jesus taught in those over 3 years of His ministry?
Just to believe in Him?

Do don't you think it's important to know what believe means...
beyond what strong's may have to say about it.

Strong's is not going to save any you know...
Jesus is,,,based on whether or not we accept His conditions.

BTW, Jesus and the Father have the same conditions.
If you read the O.T., I might say the Father is MORE demanding than Jesus....
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
I still don't understand what that means.
You trust your spiritual well-being to Jesus.
And that is obedience.

But what does entrusting your spiritual well-being mean?
I do that too...but there's so much more.

What about Mathew 25...is that at all important?

And all those other things Jesus said to do.

@stonesoffire
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
Exactly why salvation is a PRESENT ETERNAL POSSESSION at the moment of belief
Do we actually have a single point when as Sheep we enter the Kingdom, or in a sense are we not
eternally in the Kingdom because we are foreknown to enter it?

I have had many spiritual experiences, highs and lows, and it made me wary of saying which was which.
Baptism in the spirit is one and another is spiritual gifting, in filling, realisations, revelation.

Some say all believers were prepared for the final step of commitment.
I then see it is just levels of the same thing going deeper and deeper, and I wonder if not into eternity.

Cornelious is an example of a non-believer coming to faith, but the Lord heard his prayers and heart beforehand.
So I am reluctant to talk in this way of events, like they can be boxed to simply.

But thank you brother for your encouragement to look at such an issue, God bless you.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,638
1,808
113
You don't know what entrust your spiritual well being to Jesus means? Would that be because you are adding works?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,638
1,808
113
I still don't understand what that means.
You trust your spiritual well-being to Jesus.
And that is obedience.

But what does entrusting your spiritual well-being mean?
I do that too...but there's so much more.

What about Mathew 25...is that at all important?

And all those other things Jesus said to do.

@stonesoffire
Jesus said a lot of things to show man what it takes to be holy. And without Him, and His Cross....can't happen.

He also gave the revelation of the body of Christ to Paul that He can have Sons like Him. Sons of faith. Great faith and filled with Holy Spirit.

He ended Matt 25 with the sheep and goats. I am not a sheep nor a goat. I am a Son in training. Sheep and goats are of a beast nature.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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I mean, really, do you even read my posts?
I said NOT to include his last post for which he got banned.
And what do you do?
You write about his last post for which he got banned.

He wasn't quoting from a mormon book...
@posthuman figured out much earlier today that he was quoting
from Nahum 3:12....

I agree his last post was rather weird although I did agree with parts of it.
But I can't remember anything he said that could cause him to be called a false prophet,
prior to that.
His last post was the only reason I said he was a false prophet, so how could I not use his last post as an example of why I called him a false prophet. It does not matter much any more does it....you sure do get upset easily.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,638
1,808
113
Here Fran....entrust your spiritual well being...

Declaring His Work! Jesus!




We have returned to the Garden of Eden
Brought into His presence, made whole by the Lamb.
Satans lies crushed underfoot as we enter..
Truth is our breastplate, and light floods our stand.

Victory of blood, Royal blood out from Heaven
No stain of sin, given once for all men
Born into Him..Son of God, son of mankind
Covering; purging....flowing within.

Now we an army, attired in white linen
Helmets salvation encloses our head
Righteousness pinning lusts serpentine yearnings
Peace reigns our hearts touching others for Him.

He leads His army, His Voice individual
Yet, corporate as all move in Spirit as One
His-story shouting in signs and in wonders
Gathering all for His home filled with love.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I don't understand the difference.
Faith is faith.

If I have faith,,,why would't it be genuine faith?
I think there's no difference.
Exactly faith is faith.

If "faith" is something we exercise how can it not be genuine.

Now a person may have never exercised their faith. So there is no faith there to begin with.

Genuine faith is another little catch phrase by Lordship Salvationist (MacArthur and his little entourage) who like yourself teach that that "faith" must be proven by works otherwise it was not genuine.

Yet scripture states something very different

Faith doesn’t come by looking to your emotions, behaviors, or any other subjective feelings, experiences or commitments. Rather, “Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” (Rom 10:17).

Faith is the passive result of being persuaded, convinced, and convicted that something is true.


If this is the very definition of faith, then faith by necessity has to be real, in which case to say "genuine" faith is redundant and only used like I said by those who have tied faith and works together as one package in salvation.

Sound familiar???
 
Mar 14, 2011
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"I am aiming at serving others"

Amen. Is this what Paul meant by perfection? Or is this your meaning?

To me Perfection is to walk like Jesus so serving is just one part.
Jesus served,

My ain is to be like him, and not worry about how perfect i am, this allows him to keep my focus off self and put it where it belongs.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I don't understand very well how banning works.
I've been told many times on this thread that I'm going straight to hell when I die
And other stuff...

I can take the heat, I don't care.
but I do wonder if that isn't just as bad?
What he said though did go beyond the pale...
we just shouldn't speak that way.

He sounded Ok otherwise...I'm sad to see him go too.
I would like to see that quote verbatim......we have judged what you say and your gospel and have said that the gospel you espouse and peddle is not the correct message and saves no one and leads to the pit....BUT as far as I know, NO ONE has actually said that YOU WILL go straight to hell when you die....

Can you please PULL UP a POST that states this verbatim.

And tragic you sympathize with one who blatantly misapplied scripture to curse and COMMAND members of this site......
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I didnt' see that post. This thread moves along too fast and a lot is missed.
So, I don't know what it was in reference to...but no one should OPPOSE another Christian.
We're talking about doctrine....it's not like the losing side is going to be tortured and killed...you'd think it was.

There are persons that believe those trusting in OSAS do so because they will then not have to worry about following God's laws and could even, maybe, sin without worrying about it too much.
OTOH, there are persons here that I see as being "good" Christians and that strive to live a good life..so I don't know why they hold so tightly to that position...

Jesus came to transform us. He criticized the pharisees...not because they were teaching wrong...
Mathew 23:3
But because they were not changed on the inside. God wants our hearts...he wrote the law in our hearts because that's the only way we could follow it. Jeremiah 31:33.

I've asked many times here what the difference is between the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant but have not received a reply. I don't know why.

I'll tell you this for sure....no covenant abolishes the previous one. It only changes it somehow...makes it better.

We are no longer under the law....but in the New Covenant the law has not been abolished.
What has changed is our ability to follow it because we now have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us and in the Mosaic Covenant He was not.

This is the big difference.
But to avail ourselves of the N.C. we must be IN IT.
The only way to be in it is to be in the Kingdom of God (here) that Jesus preached.
And Jesus taught us how to be in the Kingdom...No need to guess or argue...
Only accept.
How can you say the bolded in your post...he ripped them for teaching falsely and teaching for the commandments of GOD the doctrines of men......
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Mat 7:21  "Not everyone who keeps saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will get into the kingdom from heaven, but only the person who keeps doing the will of my Father in heaven.


Mat 7:22  Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name, drove out demons in your name, and performed many miracles in your name, didn't we?'


Mat 7:23  Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who practice evil!'"


Build Your House on the Rock

I see these scriptures differently than before. The reason why they weren't known is because they say they did these works. It's Holy Spirit who does works "through" us, not by us. Works of iniquity? Human power?

The anointing. This is our testimony. His power. Without Him we can do nothing.
The root of their problem....they were not saved and never had been saved-->I NEVER KNEW YOU.......We can logically deduce that they trusted in a false gospel based upon their claim if FAITH by calling JESUS LORD and the facts that they had done many wonderful works in his name.......<---This dogma is pushed and peddled by MANY that name JESUS....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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^Thanks for the definition.

here is my question: If BELIEVE means OBEY. Why does it just say OBEY? The greek has a word for OBEY too, the english has a word for OBEY. So why does it say BELIEVE, instead of obey?

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Obey the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved!

Why does it instead say: BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ?
Another word comes to mind when dealing with their doctrine....

CONFLATE..........!!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Thanks bro. the doityourself IKEA salvation term comes from me trying to put together some IKEA furniture. Its quite cheap so I bought a shelf there and it came in bits and pieces. I could of gotten it done quicker by going to the woods myself chopping some wood and starting from scratch! :D
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA cough cough cough HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHHAHHAHAHHAH
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Trick question - without baptism one cannot be a Catholic. They believe without the sacrament of baptism you can't be saved.

Remember the "sacraments are necessary for salvation" post? :D:D
Should I find it again.....hehehe