Not By Works

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calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
7,164
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lawton ok
Maybe you can look the words honesty and integrity up along with obey the rules.....when one pushes obedience yet is deceptively here while breaking the rules....it leaves no room for credibility......and GIFTS IS PLURAL AND Call equates to any call....there is neither Jew nor Gentile under the new covenant...the two have become one and we have been GRAFTED IN UNDER THEIR BANNER....man you really have no understanding hey!
@calibob
How you been?
Why are you shocked??
Because there's no what? reaction. Do you not realize faith is a work in itself and reinforced by the Holy Spirit!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
19,388
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Why don't you like talking about trees and vines when referring to John 15:1-6??

Let's stop thinking about trees and start thinking honestly and quote what the bible says?

Yes. James said:

FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.

No UNTIL....YOU are adding that in and it's called embellishing.

If you say you have FAITH,,,
but have NO WORKS,,,
YOU HAVE NO FAITH.

THIS is what James is saying.
I already previously discussed John 15:1-6 with you in a different post, but apparently everything that I explained to you must have gone right over your head.

I have quoted what the Bible says and I find it strange that you accuse me of embellishing what James is teaching when you just basically said the same thing that I already said.

*If someone says-claims they have faith but they have no works (lack resulting evidential works) then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,119
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Does not active faith require work? I mean true faith is a work in progress. It's not easy to believe in the unseen. Hebrews 11; 1 & 2 says->
1) "Now faith is the assurance of what we hope for and the certainty of what we do not see. 2This is why the ancients were commended.…"
That sounds like work to me!
Can you see the air you breathe? Do you believe it is real?

Faith is a spiritual gift given in measure to every man except Christ.....how can it be a work? And hiw it is difficult to believe in God.....? EVERYTHING TESTIFIES THAT GOD IS REAL AND THIS IS ALL REAL......no man is without excuse because that which is invisible CAN BE SEEN BY THAT WHICH IS MADE...........
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Because there's no what? reaction. Do you not realize faith is a work in itself and reinforced by the Holy Spirit!
Faith is a work?
How could that be??
Faith is the free gift in Ephesians 2:8-9

Do you think that belief is a work?
I hear some say that belief is a work.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
I already previously discussed John 15:1-6 with you in a different post, but apparently everything I explained to you must have gone right over your head.

I have quoted what the Bible says and I find it strange that you accuse me of embellishing what James is teaching when you just basically said the same thing that I already said.

*If someone says-claims they have faith but they have no works (lack resulting evidential works) then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.
First of all the bible speaks of FAITH.....not faith or authentic faith.
FAITH IS FAITH.

Second of all ... there's a difference between exegeting scripture and adding to it.
The way you explain James 2 is embellishing. ( a good word @dcontroversal uses).

Third... nothing you say to me could go OVER MY HEAD.
And I resent that you think you're superior to me in biblical knowledge and I'd appreciate some respect from you as I also have respected Your intelligence.
Because I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU
does NOT mean I do not understand you.

Thanks.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
7,164
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lawton ok
I agree. True faith is a work in progress...
It's a life-long journey.

But we DO have to have something to show for it.
Like Jesus said....Love God,,,your neighbor,,,and yourself.
Doesn't this have good deeds in the mix?
Just being nice to people could be a good deed.

2 Timothy 2:21​
Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.
Sorry; Love dosn't seem like work to me it comes with the Holt Spirit. If it didn't something wrong.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
19,388
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First of all the bible speaks of FAITH.....not faith or authentic faith.
FAITH IS FAITH.

Second of all ... there's a difference between exegeting scripture and adding to it.
The way you explain James 2 is embellishing. ( a good word @dcontroversal uses).

Third... nothing you say to me could go OVER MY HEAD.
And I resent that you think you're superior to me in biblical knowledge and I'd appreciate some respect from you as I also have respected Your intelligence.
Because I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU
does NOT mean I do not understand you.

Thanks.
James talks about dead faith, which is not authentic faith in Christ that saves.

You have asked me to explain something to you before because you did not understand and just recently, you said - “Could you explain the difference? I'm pretty good at English and I don't see it.”
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,919
832
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James talks about dead faith, which is not authentic faith in Christ that saves.

You have asked me to explain something to you before because you did not understand and just recently, you said - “Could you explain the difference? I'm pretty good at English and I don't see it.”
Trivial faith bereft heart commitment made by equally trivial disciples who Jesus spoke of and rejected.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
19,388
7,573
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Trivial faith bereft heart commitment made by equally trivial disciples who Jesus spoke of and rejected.
There are genuine Christians and there are “nominal” Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
3,989
1,820
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NO ONE has the authority to judge another's soul....
as SOME on this thread enjoy doing...
as if they were God.
Wrong.

If that were true, we would have to abandon discernment and spreading the gospel.

I can judge that Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Shintoists, Mormons, Taoists, etc., and those who believe we maintain our salvation via works are lost and hell bound.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
7,164
4,839
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lawton ok
Can you see the air you breathe? Do you believe it is real?

Faith is a spiritual gift given in measure to every man except Christ.....how can it be a work? And hiw it is difficult to believe in God.....? EVERYTHING TESTIFIES THAT GOD IS REAL AND THIS IS ALL REAL......no man is without excuse because that which is invisible CAN BE SEEN BY THAT WHICH IS MADE...........
First of all the bible speaks of FAITH.....not faith or authentic faith.
FAITH IS FAITH.

Second of all ... there's a difference between exegeting scripture and adding to it.
The way you explain James 2 is embellishing. ( a good word @dcontroversal uses).

Third... nothing you say to me could go OVER MY HEAD.
And I resent that you think you're superior to me in biblical knowledge and I'd appreciate some respect from you as I also have respected Your intelligence.
Because I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU
does NOT mean I do not understand you.

Thanks.
Did faith before evidence not require some convincing. Did it not require a level of acceptance on our part. Is believing what seems impossible require some level of work on our part? Has any of us never questioned or doubted what we were taught? Is not the American version of Sant Clause or the Easter Bunny a lie? We figured it out for ourselves. Why do we believe in Jesus? We figured out it's true. That took work in our heads and hearts.

I can feel the wind and see the leaves and branches move so I believe that air exists. God to the ungodly is much less tangible. It didn't require work with our hands or speech but it did in our hearts and minds head. Since we were saved the work is finished. It is not losable because the work to get it was finished. Saved by Grace would no be saved it would be earned otherwise.

That's enough dialectics rom me for today. :geek::rolleyes:
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,919
832
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You may want to read your last two posts again.....No. 662, 663

NO ONE has the authority to judge another's soul....
as SOME on this thread enjoy doing...
as if they were God.
2 Cor 2:16
To those who are perishing, we are a dreadful smell of death and doom. But to those who are being saved, we are a life-giving perfume.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
158
43
Authentic faith does not remain “alone” - (barren of works) yet we are still saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

We are saved the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ ALONE for salvation. *Not to be confused with an “empty profession of faith/dead faith” that remains “alone” - barren of works.* (James 2:14-20)
Which means that Faith WITHOUT works is DEAD as in,

...I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF MY GOD. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD; OBEY IT, and REPENT. But IF YOU DO NOT WAKE UP, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Revelation 3:1-3

...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for him, Philippians 1:29

...It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, HE WHO REJECTS THIS INSTRUCTION DOES NOT REJECT MAN BUT GOD, who gives you his Holy Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8

...For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: “Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.” Ephesians 5:8-14

...And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to WAKE UP from your slumber, because OUR SALVATION IS NEARER NOW THAN WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVED. Romans 13:11

...See to it that you DO NOT REFUSE HIM who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him WHO WARNED THEM on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him WHO WARNS US FROM HEAVEN?

Don't reject or refuse His warnings...

...Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and THE WHOLE WORLD HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO GOD. Romans 3:19

Are you ACCOUNTABLE to God?

Again...DO NOT REFUSE THE WARNINGS.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
7,164
4,839
113
65
lawton ok
Faith is definitely not a work.
Did it not take study, prayer and convincing? Did you just wake up miraculously believing in Jesus? I didn't. After the fact is different. It's no longer hard to believe, the work was finished when I came to believe. Getting there took work for me!
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,153
469
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HBG. Pa. USA
Wrong.

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." (1 John 5:13)
Also, Romans 8:16: "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God"
All of which is very subjective.
Most choose the broad path; are listening to the wrong spirit.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,119
17,460
113
Did faith before evidence not require some convincing. Did it not require a level of acceptance on our part. Is believing what seems impossible require some level of work on our part? Has any of us never questioned or doubted what we were taught? Is not the American version of Sant Clause or the Easter Bunny a lie? We figured it out for ourselves. Why do we believe in Jesus? We figured out it's true. That took work in our heads and hearts.

I can feel the wind and see the leaves and branches move so I believe that air exists. God to the ungodly is much less tangible. It didn't require work with our hands or speech but it did in our hearts and minds head. Since we were saved the work is finished. It is not losable because the work to get it was finished. Saved by Grace would no be saved it would be earned otherwise.

That's enough dialectics rom me for today. :geek::rolleyes:
Sorry bro I cannot make the stretch...God is clear...day unto day and night unto night sets for knowledge and God states clearly that the invisible testifies and can be seen....it is also clear that faith is a gift, dealt to man in measure and I have never seen that faith is a work on our part in over 33 years of intensive study and over 45 years of being a believer....

In the grace you are, having been saved out of faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast....that not of yourselves is directed at the faith that saves......See Galatians chapter 2....we are Justified by the Faith OF CHRIST..OF OR FROM INDICATE SOURCE