Not By Works

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Feb 5, 2019
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I don’t see where you answered my questions.



“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15



If you worship other gods, is that loving God or hating God?
  1. Loving God
  2. Hating God


If I murder my neighbor, is that loving my neighbor or hating them?

  1. Loving my neighbor
  2. Hating my neighbor


If I steal from my brother is that loving him?

  1. Loving my brother
  2. Hating my brother





JPT
sorry i did not know i was talking to someone at sunday school . please forgive me.

for not answering you again. but please read what i have already written ,
ask god to help you see, using the rhema.
thank you
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Thanks for the warning! (y)
Just to advise you that the site may not be a good one....
I don't use the net for learning....
But what the site STATES is all true and accepted by biblical scholars.
It's very important to know that these three chapters in Romans are speaking about God's promises to the Jews and NOT about personal salvation.

Only calvinists, of course, do not accept this.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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To be grace filled is to be Spirit filled.


Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29
JPT
Amen! As the text you quoted testifies! However!
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:26,27

What truth?

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
(Heb 10:14-16 KJV)
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM (John 3:15,16,18) *This is not limited to the Jews.

Romans 9:30 - What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. Jews only huh? :unsure:

Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Jews only huh?:unsure:

Romans 11:25 - For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins." 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience. Jews only huh? :unsure:

*Does Romans 5:15-18; 6:23; 8:30 and Ephesians 2:8 also only apply to Jews? NO.

I'm not a 5 point Calvinist and I already understand about Romans.
You think you do Dan.
Read those articles again.
It's not that it's ABOUT the Jews or to the Jews.
It's about God's promises to them.
They refused Jesus as Messiah.
Did God fail?

This is more what it's about.

ONLY CALVINISTS do not accept all those links I posted.

But, take it or leave it.
We like to stay in our comfort zone, don't we?
I like to move out of it and learn.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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Oh, wow Have you read the title of this thread? It's the same Idea, it is about not by works. Refuting saved be works doctrines.

And I am saying The only work required is accepting the Lord. It's not the work we do. Things like love, charity, kindness, patience you know 1 st Corinth 13 6... till the end. It's not the work we do it's the work of the Holy Spirit within us that causes the changes listed. It's great if we can do more it feels like a blessing to me. It wouldn't feel the same if I thought of it as a chore! I get to work for the Lord because it's not required.

The people the letters weren't exposed to the Gospel mentality. In other words; They had lived most of their lives before hearing about right and wrong. Corinth was in Greece not Israel. They mostly didn't know the Old Testament so Paul could have given them a sound lesson about following the Law PAUL WAS SAUL OF TARSES. He was a Pharisee! He was an accuser of Christians, and he knew the law backwards and forwards. He could have preached the law at them but he skipped that sermon and taught them to have faith, Love the Lord first then love your neighbor and your self equally. Rule #3 read rules 1 & over. If you love me follow my commands came from John immediately after saying Love God first then and care about others and yourself. 1st Cor 13 is a list of the fruits that are shown as the Holy Spirit manifests within our lives.

Our works are dung.
On this type of language, I have noticed different groups use the same words to mean slightly
different things and then dispute with others what they are saying.

So Christ within me stirs me to love an elderly widow. I reach out and support them.
Another would say, "no you were trying to prove you were good, so you did an act for reward.
I avoid such doubt and do not do the act unless the "Spirit" tells me or else it is just the flesh."

It turns out if you have a cold heart, and the Lord has not warmed you and you have not opened
up to the cross, then a cold heart will only reach out to prove something, because the reaching out
would never be a reflection of love that is not there.

So often the language and theology or interpretation is just reflecting the reality within, and not
actually real theology without. And so the arguments that result are not logical or truth, but
derived from different heart conditions and experiences. And I say this for His people, because those
with cold hearts have no choice, they are what they are.

I have learnt more from exploring this questions than anywhere else, because the vehmence of some
is eye opening. When you understand you can wrap a hard heart in the gospel, and rip people apart
while appearing to speak His word, things become a lot clearer, and the attacks irrelevant.
God bless you.
 
Feb 5, 2019
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Just to advise you that the site may not be a good one....
I don't use the net for learning....
But what the site STATES is all true and accepted by biblical scholars.
It's very important to know that these three chapters in Romans are speaking about God's promises to the Jews and NOT about personal salvation.

Only calvinists, of course, do not accept this.
sorry, could not help my self
but dose any one not ask the calvinist, he make big words like omnipresent ,omnipotent,omniscience, tulp, etc

yet could not understand do not kill, lol

yet god is every ware . you got to blind eye to a dictionary. lol

no offence intended, just things the rhema point out etc
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,991
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HBG. Pa. USA
What we think is true at times is.What is True is not.
Truth is not subjective - no matter what you think.
But what we think is true at times is subjective. What is True is not.
Some think they are saved and are not. A mere "intellectual" assent to the Holy Writ and a profession of it; if not from the Spirit through our heart, is nothing but a lie.
Many think they are of the Spirit and are not.

He is LOVE and as HE is so are we in this World.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Where did the word "human" come from? :unsure: God said, "Let us make man in our image." Is God human?

God created man with three parts, Body, Soul and Spirit. We were designed to be in a relationship with God - connected to Him by body, soul and spirit.

Human and humanity sounds like a fallen state to me - mortal and corrupt.
Hi L,
I don't understand your point...
It sounds like you're saying God is human and that's the only way we could be human since we're made in HIS image!

I know this is not what you mean.
Adam was human even before the fall...
We're just a different being than God is.

When God said "let us make man in our image" He gave man some of His attributes.
He gave us the ability to love,
The ability to be creative,
The ability to have a family, (like God also has a family)
He gave us the ability to be social and to interact with others....

This is what is meant by making us like Him.

After the fall man did become mortal and the relationship with God was corrupted....
also the relationship with other persons,,,with nature,,,and with himself.

Man acquired the sin nature and tends toward sin.
This is my understanding.
 
Feb 5, 2019
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rhema being a word
Rhema (ῥῆμα in Greek) literally means an "utterance" or "thing said" in Greek. It is a word that signifies the action of utterance. In philosophy, it was used by both Plato and Aristotle to refer to propositions or sentences.


god speaking directly to you,
if you dont have the holy spirit, then all you will have is the written word, ie ( the bible only become a history book of god and the people he work with, )etc


if you have the holy spirit paul is telling you to step up to

1 Corinthians 12 New International Version (NIV)
Concerning Spiritual Gifts

and learn to hear or work toward a spiritual gift etc
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,196
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blind eye to a dictionary
“Words are your words. You invented the words, and you made a dictionary and you gave me the dictionary and you said, ‘These are what the words mean.’ Well, this is what they mean to you, but to someone else, they have got a different dictionary.”

Who knows the quote!?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Did faith before evidence not require some convincing. Did it not require a level of acceptance on our part. Is believing what seems impossible require some level of work on our part? Has any of us never questioned or doubted what we were taught? Is not the American version of Sant Clause or the Easter Bunny a lie? We figured it out for ourselves. Why do we believe in Jesus? We figured out it's true. That took work in our heads and hearts.

I can feel the wind and see the leaves and branches move so I believe that air exists. God to the ungodly is much less tangible. It didn't require work with our hands or speech but it did in our hearts and minds head. Since we were saved the work is finished. It is not losable because the work to get it was finished. Saved by Grace would no be saved it would be earned otherwise.

That's enough dialectics rom me for today. :geek::rolleyes:
We all come to know God in our own way....
However that way is,,,,I think we're just to be thankful that we know God and pray for those who do not.
Jesus knew that not everyone would accept Him....this is why the Way is Narrow....not many find it.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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James talks about dead faith, which is not authentic faith in Christ that saves.

You have asked me to explain something to you before because you did not understand and just recently, you said - “Could you explain the difference? I'm pretty good at English and I don't see it.”
LOL

I said that the two sentences are making the same statement...
and if you don't think so,,,,,to explain HOW they are different....since they are NOT.

When I ask you to explain something it's to find out what YOU think about it.
I don't come here to learn from anyone here....I've learned from good sources.
However, one could always learn something new....but this is not why I ask.

So now maybe you understand and will keep this in mind.

And James is talking about FAITH....he was with Jesus throughout His ministry and understands what FAITH is.

James said FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.
NO WORKS.......NO FAITH.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
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sorry, could not help my self
but dose any one not ask the calvinist, he make big words like omnipresent ,omnipotent,omniscience, tulp, etc

yet could not understand do not kill, lol

yet god is every ware . you got to blind eye to a dictionary. lol

no offence intended, just things the rhema point out etc
I'm not sure what you mean by the above....

What I was saying is that the theology of calvinism, or reformed, believes that Romans 9, 10 and 11 is speaking about individual persons and they use these verses to show how God has mercy on whom He will have Mercy, how He "chose" Jacob over Esau even though Esau was the firs-born, and how the potter could make the clay vessel however he desires to and the clay vessel cannot complain.

This is NOT what Romand 9, 10 and 11 is speaking about.
It's speaking about the history between God and the Jews, from Abraham on...
It's speaking about corporate salvation and not individual salvation.

If you read the links I posted,,,,you'll learn what scholars say those chapters mean....
no need to listen to me! I'm not a scholar. But I do like to learn all I can.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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sorry, could not help my self
but dose any one not ask the calvinist, he make big words like omnipresent ,omnipotent,omniscience, tulp, etc

yet could not understand do not kill, lol

yet god is every ware . you got to blind eye to a dictionary. lol

no offence intended, just things the rhema point out etc
Show me one calvinist who does not understand do not kill.


You should repent of this post!
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,035
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But what we think is true at times is subjective. What is True is not.
Some think they are saved and are not. A mere "intellectual" assent to the Holy Writ and a profession of it; if not from the Spirit through our heart, is nothing but a lie.
Many think they are of the Spirit and are not.

He is LOVE and as HE is so are we in this World.
Sabbath? yes? no? maybe?

been waiting for weeks for you to clarify your stance on Sabbath keeping, you have yet to do so.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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sorry i did not know i was talking to someone at sunday school . please forgive me.

for not answering you again. but please read what i have already written ,
ask god to help you see, using the rhema.
thank you

I have read what you have written.


“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15



If you worship other gods, is that loving God or hating God?
  1. Loving God
  2. Hating God


If I murder my neighbor, is that loving my neighbor or hating them?

  1. Loving my neighbor
  2. Hating my neighbor


If I steal from my brother is that loving him?

  1. Loving my brother
  2. Hating my brother





JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,806
473
83
Sabbath? yes? no? maybe?

been waiting for weeks for you to clarify your stance on Sabbath keeping, you have yet to do so.

The Sabbath today as it was before the law of Moses was added, is for man to rest.


The weekly Sabbath points us to the rest to come, when Christ returns and the faithful will reign with Him for a thousand years in resurrected bodies that will not die anymore and all our enemies are removed.



JPT
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
And James is talking about FAITH....he was with Jesus throughout His ministry and understands what FAITH is.
Agree, the scripture does not use modifiers like we read so often in the literature, genuine faith, real faith, spurious faith.

You are on the right track....only of you could continue on:)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,035
2,898
113
The Sabbath today as it was before the law of Moses was added, is for man to rest.


The weekly Sabbath points us to the rest to come, when Christ returns and the faithful will reign with Him for a thousand years in resurrected bodies that will not die anymore and all our enemies are removed.



JPT
lightbearer thinks one has to keep the Sabbath to be saved.

he used to talk about it, until I began calling him out, then he stopped , and started to deny saying it.

so, it is ongoing thing with him and i