Not By Works

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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM (John 3:15,16,18) *This is not limited to the Jews.

Romans 9:30 - What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. Jews only huh? :unsure:

Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Jews only huh?:unsure:

Romans 11:25 - For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins." 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience. Jews only huh? :unsure:

*Does Romans 5:15-18; 6:23; 8:30 and Ephesians 2:8 also only apply to Jews? NO.

I'm not a 5 point Calvinist and I already understand about Romans.
There is neither Jew nor Gentile under the new covenant......both are saved eternally by grace through faith no strings attached or religious hoops to jump through.......
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Of course you'd say this because you believe in OSAS.
And I'm sure you could find some commentator that would agree.....

Here's one I found that I agree with and there are many more...

......He called them to the combat; he declared the kind of combat in which they were to engage; he proclaimed the qualifications necessary in the combatants, and the laws of the battle. Withal, he encouraged the combatants, by placing the crowns and palms full in their view.”

The expression, αυτος αδοκιμος γενωμαι, rendered, I myself should be a cast-away, or disapproved, signifies one, who, when tried in the manner described above, was found not to be of the character and station required by the established regulations.


“Besides the previous trial, the judges, after the combat was over, made a most accurate and impartial scrutiny into the manner in which the victors had contended, in order to find whether they had contended νομιμως, (2 Timothy 2:5,) according to the laws of the combat.

. And if, on trial, it appeared that they had failed in the least particular, they were cast. In consequence of this sentence, they were denied the crown, and sometimes beat out of the stadium with disgrace. Such contenders, whether they were cast before or after the combat, were αδοκιμοι, persons not approved. Wherefore, to avoid that disgrace, the apostle, who was a combatant in the Christian race, as well as a herald, was careful to qualify himself for the combat; and in combating, to observe all the laws of the combat, lest, having proclaimed these laws, he should be found not approved himself.

This the apostle said to stir up all, but especially the ministers of the gospel, to the greatest diligence in acquiring habits of self-government and purity, not only that they might secure to themselves the crown of righteousness, but that they might be patterns to their people.” — See Macknight, and West’s Pindar.

It is justly observed here by a late writer, that this single passage may give us a just notion of the Scriptural doctrine of election and reprobation; and clearly shows us, that particular persons are not in Holy Writ represented as elected, absolutely and unconditionally, to eternal life; or predestinated, absolutely and unconditionally, to eternal death:


but that believers in general are elected to enjoy the Christian privileges on earth, which, if they abuse, those very elect persons will become reprobate. St. Paul was certainly an elect person, if ever there was one: and yet he declares it was possible he himself might become a reprobate. Nay, he would actually have become such, if he had not thus kept his body under, even though he had been so long an elect person, a Christian, and an apostle.

source: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_corinthians/9-26.htm




REPROBATE:

morally unprincipled; depraved
2. Christianity
destined or condemned to eternal punishment in hell
noun
3.
an unprincipled, depraved, or damned person
4.
a disreputable or roguish person
the old reprobate
verb (transitive)
5.
to disapprove of; condemn
6.
(of God) to destine, consign, or condemn to eternal punishment in hell



source: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/reprobate
The fact is that God fulfilled His mandate in gifting Paul with perseverance....which Paul willingly received, enduring to the end, of which all Christians likewise partake.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,343
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Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy he saved us...

Our good deeds, or how geood we are have no bearing on our salvation, at every given moment on any given day, we are enslaved to Gods mercy.

To me, thats a good place to be, keeps me from boasting or puffing myself up, and keeps me focused on loving and serving others!
Amen.....grace or works and it is obviously not by works.......

Grace through faith <--only way to be saved eternally

Grace/faith plus works <---to gain, keep, top off, finish etc....hell to pay....false gospel no power double cursed and all that believe it are fools and bewitched
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,343
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The fact is that God fulfilled His mandate in gifting Paul with perseverance....which Paul willingly received, enduring to the end, of which all Christians likewise partake.
The Jesus of the bible begins, finishes and completes the work of faith he began in us.....

Her Jesus needs her help to remain in the faith and stay saved.......she peddles obedience while being disobedient to the rules of this site!
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
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The fact is that God fulfilled His mandate in gifting Paul with perseverance....which Paul willingly received, enduring to the end, of which all Christians likewise partake.
Praise God that most will dwell in His love and be happy to and will not desert Him.

Of course Paul persevered till the end....We know the end of the story.

However, you're not hitting on the point you were making....
It was POSSIBLE for Paul NOT to have made it to the end.
HE, HIMSELF, was a bit worried he might not (for whatever reason).

And you mention the word perseverance.
I hope you don't mean perseverance of the saints...
But I must say that P of the S is the MOST unsecure form of soteriology available for us in which to believe.

Those that believe in P of the S will not know till the END of their lifetime whether or not they have persevered....and thus are truly a lucky chosen one.

Just a side-note....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,343
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Praise God that most will dwell in His love and be happy to and will not desert Him.

Of course Paul persevered till the end....We know the end of the story.

However, you're not hitting on the point you were making....
It was POSSIBLE for Paul NOT to have made it to the end.
HE, HIMSELF, was a bit worried he might not (for whatever reason).

And you mention the word perseverance.
I hope you don't mean perseverance of the saints...
But I must say that P of the S is the MOST unsecure form of soteriology available for us in which to believe.

Those that believe in P of the S will not know till the END of their lifetime whether or not they have persevered....and thus are truly a lucky chosen one.

Just a side-note....
Wrong again......95% of what you post is tainted by your false loseable self maintained salvation.....Hey...how does being disobedient to the rules of this site by coming back after being banned as Fran help your salvation....???
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Wrong again......95% of what you post is tainted by your false loseable self maintained salvation.....Hey...how does being disobedient to the rules of this site by coming back after being banned as Fran help your salvation....???
How does being nasty to another Christian help YOUR salvation?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,343
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How does being nasty to another Christian help YOUR salvation?
How is stating facts being nasty and calling into question the fact that you peddle obedience and yet are not obedient........get your facts straight....!! You are not honest......
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
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sorry but i would like to add

as you can see there is a big difference between laws in old testament, to modern day law of the land in the western parts, etc

would the law of the land put you in jail in 2019, ...............................or chop your hand off (stealing)
Just saw this....
Hands were chopped off in the O.T.???

Could you post the scripture?
I can't remember this....

And regarding law in the O.T.....
You know persons that are following the Laws of Moses?
All 613 of them?

Just the written Torah or also the Oral Torah?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,343
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believe- to think to be true, to place confidence in, to be persuaded of.

obey- to submit what is heard, to change one's conduct to God's standards.
'so, no, they do not mean the same thing.

one ( belief ) produces salvation.

one ( obey ) is done as a RESULT of belief.
Amen......false dogmas galore due to the conflation of words, biblical truths and especially salvation/justification with ongoing sanctification.......
 
Feb 5, 2019
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Since he portion of the POST did not show up, I know you are talking to a person that is on my IGNORE list. I guarantee, he EARNED to right to be on that list.
the sorry part is, can we get on gods ignore list. (gal 5) this is people that study bible inside out, yet have been blinded by there own eyes, and trying to fit in to a certain religion or sect, when to get in to gods presence is simple

my point deepens , being good or bad in our own eyes , being good of bad in gods eyes, being good or bad in someone else eyes.

being good or bad in gods eyes, is not the problem as there is no condemnation to enter his presence for the believer.(singular) as we enter through faith, and in peace and in confidence, knowing we will not be rejected etc

some do not enter because they deep and heavy laden with all different kinds of wrong acts in there life and are shamed by others or them selfs, having a wrong understanding to the bible. have illnesses, try to repent there way clear back in to gods presence. when they never learn a god of love, is called father, and were never on the correct foundation, etc (to name some things)

for example
in a modern world , you can gay, living with a partner outside off marriage, drink beer, etc

yet if they go into some religions or sect churches or homes, they are condemned like jesus was with the pharisees , etc

and end up worse that they first began.

i understand the point of an ignore list, even if you get frustrated at times,

get them on the correct foundations, and god will take care of the rest.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
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How is stating facts being nasty and calling into question the fact that you peddle obedience and yet are not obedient........get your facts straight....!! You are not honest......
Oh my Dcon.

Are you stating that YOU never sin?
You're perfect 24/7?
You believe in sinless perfection?

I thought you DIDN'T believe this crazy concept!
So if you break JUST ONE LAW,,,,you've broken them all !

You've put yourself under the law and have nullified grace.
:eek:
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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the old testment is stolen by war,( 70 ad) new and old testemant were put together by rome, published around 1200 ad-1500ad

only teachers of the law,Pharisee , can read from the torah,
i have already post sothing alone these line in an other post.

jesus and paul are two in the new testament that come to mind
No offence...this is ignorant
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,343
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Oh my Dcon.

Are you stating that YOU never sin?
You're perfect 24/7?
You believe in sinless perfection?

I thought you DIDN'T believe this crazy concept!
So if you break JUST ONE LAW,,,,you've broken them all !

You've put yourself under the law and have nullified grace.
:eek:
See...no honesty on your part and blame shift to throw off your own yoke of dishonesty and peddling to obey when you do not obey....and for the record I have never been banned for anti biblical behaviour and then came back under a new name while breaking the rules of this site to peddle obeying rules to keep salvation...you on the other hand have.......

Get honest Fran and quit doing like you do in this post and quit twisting and or embellishing what we say to throw off your own erroneous yoke!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,343
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We all come to know God in our own way....
However that way is,,,,I think we're just to be thankful that we know God and pray for those who do not.
Jesus knew that not everyone would accept Him....this is why the Way is Narrow....not many find it.
We all "those actually saved" came to know God the exact same way as described in the bible.......there is one door, not 50!!
 
Feb 5, 2019
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how is this ignorant

tell that to the jewish, when there temple was taken down, take your sheep to rome etc

is this date wrong or did you miss my point