Not By Works

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GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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I knew you would come back with my little shout out ....I will admit I did enjoy your fight against Calvinism, carry on I admire your bravado, I have long since given up.
Don't give up.
It could be you and I againstthe calvinists!
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Don't give up.
It could be you and I againstthe calvinists!
LOL

We shall see, they never fail to deliver on the sterotype, but it actually seems a little calmer on that thread than in the past, I'll think on it.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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LOL

We shall see, they never fail to deliver on the sterotype, but it actually seems a little calmer on that thread than in the past, I'll think on it.
I like what they say when they have no answer to a question or post:

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!

Right. They're so intelligent they think God sends persons to hell.
The rest of us are sooooooo stupid for thinking He's a loving God.

thRQKCVSAT.jpg
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I like what they say when they have no answer to a question or post:

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!

Right. They're so intelligent they think God sends persons to hell.
The rest of us are sooooooo stupid for thinking He's a loving God.

View attachment 195693
The rest of us are honest and not here breaking the rules after being banned and then lying about it.......

God made the wicked for the day of destruction....wrap your head atound that truth!!
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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Against my will I believed my mother had died.
Im sorry.

I didnt mean to bring that back into your memory with my question. It was a sincere question. I understand you. I apologize. I hope God gives you strength to go through your loss. I have also lost a ton of people in my life, some to the streets, some to OD, some to just natural causes.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I like what they say when they have no answer to a question or post:

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!

Right. They're so intelligent they think God sends persons to hell.
The rest of us are sooooooo stupid for thinking He's a loving God.

View attachment 195693
Yes this is why...

“If we cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just that it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will. When God is said to visit in mercy or harden whom he will, men are reminded that they are not to seek for any cause beyond his will.” (Institutes, III, xxii, 11)

“Those therefore whom God passes by he reprobates, and that for no other cause but because he is pleased to exclude them...” (Institutes, III, xxiii, 1)

Such a low, low view of God.:(
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Im sorry.

I didnt mean to bring that back into your memory with my question. It was a sincere question. I understand you. I apologize. I hope God gives you strength to go through your loss. I have also lost a ton of people in my life, some to the streets, some to OD, some to just natural causes.
No problem, it was my best example came to my mind.

We can be persuaded of a reality/truth against our will and with our will, but ultimately being persuaded is not an act of our will, we cannot will ourselves to believe.

Paul maintained his independent individual will, God did not force him to believe, but he was ultimately deeply persuaded and God did go to great lengths to persuade him.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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Yes this is why...

“If we cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just that it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will. When God is said to visit in mercy or harden whom he will, men are reminded that they are not to seek for any cause beyond his will.” (Institutes, III, xxii, 11)

“Those therefore whom God passes by he reprobates, and that for no other cause but because he is pleased to exclude them...” (Institutes, III, xxiii, 1)

Such a low, low view of God.:(
Yes,,,I agree.
1. They have a deep misconception about God's very character.
2. They believe they're far superior to us because they can ACCEPT this type of God,,,and we, the weak ones, are so weak that we cannot.
3. How could anyone be a calvinist after reading the institutes??

You know them better than I do...
You should be on that thread.

Almost 1:30 am here.
Good Night.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
They believe they're far superior to us because they can ACCEPT this type of God,,,and we, the weak ones, are so weak that we cannot.
Wow....Very true, I never really saw it this before but it explains a lot but not in good way. :(
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
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Law abiding, comman keeping and religious works or hoop jumping saves no one genius....nor does it keep them saved.....Eternal life, everlasting life, faith, saved and justified by faith are ALL GIFTS of God that are irrevocable and given freely by grace through faith....your Catholic vanilla twist religious dogma will be found entrenched in the many GROUPING.....

FAITH PLUS ANYTHING FOR OR TO KEEP = false gospel, no power and hell to pay!!
...My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for MAN'S ANGER DOES NOT BRING ABOUT THE RIGHTEOUS LIFE THAT GOD DESIRES. Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and HUMBLY ACCEPT THE WORD planted in you, which can save you. DO NOT MERELY LISTEN to the word, and so deceive yourselves. DO WHAT IT SAYS. James 1:19-22

...TEACHING THEM TO OBEY "EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU..." Matthew 28:18-20

What are you teaching?

...I WILL NOT VENTURE to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD BY WHAT I HAVE SAID AND DONE— Romans 15:18

Btw, where's the Scripture that says "SALVATION WAS IRREVOCABLY GIVEN?
 
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...My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for MAN'S ANGER DOES NOT BRING ABOUT THE RIGHTEOUS LIFE THAT GOD DESIRES. Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and HUMBLY ACCEPT THE WORD planted in you, which can save you. DO NOT MERELY LISTEN to the word, and so deceive yourselves. DO WHAT IT SAYS. James 1:19-22

...TEACHING THEM TO OBEY "EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU..." Matthew 28:18-20

What are you teaching?

...I WILL NOT VENTURE to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD BY WHAT I HAVE SAID AND DONE— Romans 15:18

Btw, where's the Scripture that says "SALVATION WAS IRREVOCABLY GIVEN?
Everyone should pay attention to your dishonesty and lies instead.....quote me where I even come close to implying the drivel you peddle Seoche.....and eternal or everlasting as applied to the GIFT OF LIFE AND FAITH does not mean temporal, genius..........
 
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I want to remind everyone this thread is about how one is biblically saved eternally by grace through faith....it is not about the process of ongoing sanctification....those who tie obeying some set of rules or law keeping to the actual process of biblical salvation are deceived and missing the scope of this thread...those that twist what we say into a "live as you please life" are lying through their teeth.....no one has said this or even implied this deception.....!
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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I want to remind everyone this thread is about how one is biblically saved eternally by grace through faith....it is not about the process of ongoing sanctification....those who tie obeying some set of rules or law keeping to the actual process of biblical salvation are deceived and missing the scope of this thread...those that twist what we say into a "live as you please life" are lying through their teeth.....no one has said this or even implied this deception.....!
Morning D...
It is a wonderful comfort knowing that our LORD is the anchor to our soul...
Through all the winds and waters of life that batter us , we are secure in Him...
The anchor of our soul is held in His hands as we walk the narrow path , although we sway sometimes , the anchor will not let us go...
What a wonderful Almighty God we serve , great is His Faithfulness...xox...
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Morning D...
It is a wonderful comfort knowing that our LORD is the anchor to our soul...
Through all the winds and waters of life that batter us , we are secure in Him...
The anchor of our soul is held in His hands as we walk the narrow path , although we sway sometimes , the anchor will not let us go...
What a wonderful Almighty God we serve , great is His Faithfulness...xox...
Amen Rose....keep swinging sister..love your imput.....
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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I want to remind everyone this thread is about how one is biblically saved eternally by grace through faith....it is not about the process of ongoing sanctification....those who tie obeying some set of rules or law keeping to the actual process of biblical salvation are deceived and missing the scope of this thread...those that twist what we say into a "live as you please life" are lying through their teeth.....no one has said this or even implied this deception.....!
dcon, How honest are you?
If you claim we should live a particular way and not as you please, what is this way?
And in theological terms you need to define this as God defines it.

Paul and the apostles were specific about morality. Love fulfils the law.
Do not be impure but live a holy life.

What about the principles in the sermon on the mount, defining Christs attitude and
life? These are foundational to building upon the rock. But maybe not for you?

Faith is a great thing, believing in Jesus, but this belief is about transformation.
Without transformation, spiritual rebirth, there is no salvation.

So I detect you claim to have faith, but in what and the way is unclear in your writings.
So how honest are you, my friend, or are you what you claim others to be?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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dcon, How honest are you?
If you claim we should live a particular way and not as you please, what is this way?
And in theological terms you need to define this as God defines it.

Paul and the apostles were specific about morality. Love fulfils the law.
Do not be impure but live a holy life.

What about the principles in the sermon on the mount, defining Christs attitude and
life? These are foundational to building upon the rock. But maybe not for you?

Faith is a great thing, believing in Jesus, but this belief is about transformation.
Without transformation, spiritual rebirth, there is no salvation.

So I detect you claim to have faith, but in what and the way is unclear in your writings.
So how honest are you, my friend, or are you what you claim others to be?
More honest than those who have been banned and back under new names pal....and if you cannot see where I stand by all that I have written you are either blind or cannot understand English........
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
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Depends on who you ask. But the way you phrased your question leads me to believe you are going to argue that: "Obedience doesnt necessarily follow, since humans have free will." If im right:

Then you should be consistent in your view. If you believe in free will, you can will your way into salvation, you should be able to will your way out too.
My point being, if sinning were a factor in the retention of salvation - how much sinning would cause you to lose it?

If all sins were forgiven and attributed to Christ, and in return we are imputed His righteousness, how can we be condemned for the sin of failure to be obedient, with the resulting loss of salvation? Are all sins paid for except that sin?

And if failure to be obedient will cost the believer their salvation, then salvation is neither a gift, nor is grace unmerited.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that HUMAN PRIDE will not allow works-salvationists to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 3:19; 11:17,18; 16:31; 20:21). Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
I want to remind everyone this thread is about how one is biblically saved eternally by grace through faith....it is not about the process of ongoing sanctification....those who tie obeying some set of rules or law keeping to the actual process of biblical salvation are deceived and missing the scope of this thread...those that twist what we say into a "live as you please life" are lying through their teeth.....no one has said this or even implied this deception.....!
That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that HUMAN PRIDE will not allow works-salvationists to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 3:19; 11:17,18; 16:31; 20:21). Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.
...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. THIS OLD COMMAND IS THE MESSAGE YOU HAVE HEARD. Yet I am writing you a new command; IT'S TRUTH IS SEEN IN HIM AND YOU, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining. Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble. But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, BECAUSE THE DARKNESS HAS BLINDED HIM. 1 John 2:3-11

...NOW TO YOU WHO BELIEVE, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone,” and, “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” THEY STUMBLE BECAUSE THEY DISOBEY THE MESSAGE—which is also what they were destined for. But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
1 Peter 2:7-9

...I WILL NOT VENTURE TO SPEAK OF ANYTHING except what Christ has accomplished THROUGH ME in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD by what I have said and done—
Romans 15:18

And Paul advises us to follow his example just as he follows Christ's example. (1 Corinthians 11:1)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,189
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...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
I already explained this to you in post #91,552. - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-4578#post-3871879

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already have come to know Him/already saved - demonstrative evidence) if we keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. The Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" (Strong's #5083) which means to guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. It does not mean sinless, perfect obedience 100% of the time, as sinless perfectionists teach. 1 John 2:4 - The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

*Do you believe that you perfectly obey ALL the commandments of the Lord? :unsure:
*Do you also believe that you will be saved based on the merits of obeying ALL the commandments of the Lord? :unsure:

1 John 2:6 - the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked. (NASB) Perverting the gospel by teaching salvation by works is not walking in the same manner as Jesus walked. :cautious:

Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. THIS OLD COMMAND IS THE MESSAGE YOU HAVE HEARD. Yet I am writing you a new command; IT'S TRUTH IS SEEN IN HIM AND YOU, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining. Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble. But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, BECAUSE THE DARKNESS HAS BLINDED HIM. 1 John 2:3-11
1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. *Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. *Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. *Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that walks in darkness, hates his brother is connected to children of the devil.

You need to stop confusing DESCRIPTIVE passages of scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of scripture. The end result is salvation by works/works righteousness/perversion of the gospel.

...NOW TO YOU WHO BELIEVE, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone,” and, “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” THEY STUMBLE BECAUSE THEY DISOBEY THE MESSAGE—which is also what they were destined for. But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
1 Peter 2:7-9
Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. (Romans 1:16)

Romans 10:1 - Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who BELIEVES.

1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who BELIEVE.