Not By Works

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blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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NO ONE here has stated that they don't sin, and don't repent.. That is merely YOUR assumption, which is wrong as usual..


i spoke to work colleauge today on the phone we where joikng about and i asked him are you a saint coz he mentioned something about God.

he just laughed and said im a sinner.. that was it without so much batting an eyelid.. well i thought at least your honest..

unlike some in this thread who can do no wrong and dont repent.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Christ died for ALL sin. That includes future sin. He knows we will slip up and sin from time to time.. So I don't get why you say that's taking the cross a step too far. :confused:
yeah we do slip up thats true but we also get slipped up by people chucking banana skins on the pavement..
 
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Ariel82

Guest
So up for auction: straw man 4: Fire proof Insurance Man, aka free ticket to Heaven guy

With this you can label anyone trying to teach the Biblical doctrin of grace, a greesy free gracer who doesn't care about godliness. He doesn't have to be born again or be lead by the Holy Spirit, all he has to be is to speak the magic words and he can earn the title "nominal Christian" we also have the accompanying patch for "carnal Christian"

His motto is "sin all you like, cuz i punched my ticket on that black train!" it's okay..if you look at it sidewise.,,it doesn't. Say HELL....come on now...we got two of the letters right, good enough?

Now this one is great buy for folks who want to cuz folks to build upon other foundation besides Christ.

You just slap it on anyone attempting to teach Biblical grace or the true message and start torching it.

Guaranteed to burn for hours and aggravate anyone with an ounce of spiritual discernment.
So we see PeterJens making a good bid for straw Man number 4...any other takers?
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Seariously i agree that we can slip up... But thats not hardly a sin is it lets be honest... (reality check.)

Now if i was saying my future sins was forgiven and all i did all day was swear like a foul mouthed impatient person who doesnt know his left from his right... would you say im looney ?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
The problem here is about prejudging arguments and logic.
It is like saying a vegetarian is one because they hate killing animals.
Until you talk to them you do not know.

Now I have had conversations with people who say sin is something they live with
everyday and come out with examples of things that could easily be resolved, yet
they neither express the desire to resolve them or see a need.

That is by its nature abiding in sin.
When the question of walking righteously is raised it becomes sinless perfection.
Now this is just propoganda and denial of the true heart and the true motives.

If I am commited to run a marathon but do not even run 1 mile, I am not being
honest. People will lie, cheat, deny, hide, obscure about things they love, just like
an alcoholic when challenged about their level of drinking. You are either a sober
alcoholic or you have not stopped. There is is no halfway house.

With sin you are either commited to walk in righteousness or you are compromised.

Now when people talk about lying so quickly, one has to be very careful. This is a
high stakes game and sin and pride are the hardest thing in our lives to break.

And worse still our hearts will deceive us, and paint us as ok, even when our behaviour
says something very different.

There are only those fighting the fight and those who are not.
Do you hunger and thirst for righteousness, then you have grasped God and Christ.

"But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well."
Matt 6:33

Please listen. The first step is - seeking, not arriving. You will never arrive if you do not seek.
And those who attack seekers are 100% not interested in arriving.

Walking with Christ is walking in His holiness, purity and love. Now if this makes you feel sick
and ill, nerdy, soppy, wimpish, something you would never do, I have to ask you, do you know
Christ and the cross. I do not mean in it in a judgemental way, but in an honest way, this is our
God. Have you ever loved another sacrificially and walked in their shoes?

Many claim the name of Jesus, yet have not begun to know the Lord.
Beginning this walk is starting to know where you are, and then finding where you want to
get to. Sometimes walking away is walking towards Jesus, because you have to find yourself
before you can find reality.

Each ones walk is different, and the same arguments are put forward for widely different
reasons. It is why it often gets confusing. It is why patience and waiting to know people
makes a big difference. And there are some wonderful, gifted people here, who bless and
encourage others. I would hope I can help encourage them on in Christ and they me.

God bless you
All this to say what Peter?

You seek to live a holy life and you feel like folks are attacking YOU because they do NOT seek to live holy lives?

let me break it down for you.

Folks don't like how you make strawmen and paste their face on them and pretend that they believe something they don't.

Just like you don't like it when they so it to you....yet in your very next post you make a "let's tell the murderer it's okay to murder his family, fake strawmen"

This (your favorit hobby of making strawmen and burnning them) is why folks just tune you out some days.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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All this to say what Peter?

You seek to live a holy life and you feel like folks are attacking YOU because they do NOT seek to live holy lives?

let me break it down for you.

Folks don't like how you make strawmen and paste their face on them and pretend that they believe something they don't.

Just like you don't like it when they so it to you....yet in your very next post you make a "let's tell the murderer it's okay to murder his family, fake strawmen"

This (your favorit hobby of making strawmen and burnning them) is why folks just tune you out some days.
I have not named anyone nor would I.
I am making a simple point that applies to me as much as anyone

If you do not hear Christ calling us to hunger and thirst for righteousness, then I have
to ask, have you read the sermon on the mount? Do you know what it means?

Now this is God speaking, not me. So your defence is to say I am personalising it,
and making it about people here. This is the response of sinner to God and His word.

When God speaks, it is like the speaker is talking just to them about their situation.
The question always is, are you going to do something about it?

You can attack the speaker, ie reject Gods word, or ask the Lord to help you resolve
the problem.

Non Ariel, if you agreed with me, God is calling us to hunger and thirst for righteousness,
why are you raising any questions and not just saying amen, brother, let us walk on.

It is really this simple. The heart is wicked and deceitfull above all things. It will always
turn us against messages that challenge us to change and walk in Gods ways and expose
sin and failure which it desires to keep hidden. I know this in myself and used to seek out
people who could help me grow and show me issues I needed to know about.

So I can say nothing else. God bless you and Praise the Lord for His word.

Let us honour our King, and desire to walk deeper and more fully in His ways, Amen.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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NO ONE here has stated that they don't sin, and don't repent.. That is merely YOUR assumption, which is wrong as usual..
Blue. Imagine if I am a litter bug. I say of yes I litter, it is terrible, just cannot help myself.

I am walking down the road, each a sweety, and I just have to dump the wrapper in the street.
Yes I know it is wrong and I should not do it, it just slips out on to the street, I am so wrong,
hahahaha.

Now apart from taking no responsibility for ones own actions, doing something that mitigates
or stops the behaviour, there is nothing here that actually shows repentance.

Repentance is saying the behaviour is abhorant, disgusting, revolting, something one does not
want to be associated with ever again, horses could not dray one back there. It is actions that
bring shame and sorrow, a broken heart, a time of great sadness and regret. That is repentance.

And sin is something that is destructive, intended, damaging, selfish, destroys something someone
else values. It is not a passing thought, or a desire to do something or go somewhere and you change
your mind. There are real consequences that are evil that come from the action.

So much of what people call sin, is just a way of excusing sin by saying it is so over whelming, there
is nothing they can do, it is just who they are, their weakness and limits. It is like a moth to a flame,
to two are going to meet, slavery and addiction, bang.

Odd Christ, Paul, Peter and the rest do not take about sin like this, instead the opposite.
It is something they are now free from and live in the world of love and acceptance in Christ.

Let me list some of the issues people have. Swearing. How you deal with shock and frustrations.
Anger. How you deal with evil and negligence of others. Stealing. How you trust God and look
for ways in love to resolve the issues you have got. These are all resolvable issues, that people
face everyday. In Christ we have the victory. Are you willing to take it?
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
I already have Christ. So I also have His victory. :) BUT I AM still a sinner who flubs up sometimes. We all do it, even you. :) The difference is, some people don't own up to their sin, and ask forgiveness and resolve to do better. I do. :)


Blue. Imagine if I am a litter bug. I say of yes I litter, it is terrible, just cannot help myself.

I am walking down the road, each a sweety, and I just have to dump the wrapper in the street.
Yes I know it is wrong and I should not do it, it just slips out on to the street, I am so wrong,
hahahaha.

Now apart from taking no responsibility for ones own actions, doing something that mitigates
or stops the behaviour, there is nothing here that actually shows repentance.

Repentance is saying the behaviour is abhorant, disgusting, revolting, something one does not
want to be associated with ever again, horses could not dray one back there. It is actions that
bring shame and sorrow, a broken heart, a time of great sadness and regret. That is repentance.

And sin is something that is destructive, intended, damaging, selfish, destroys something someone
else values. It is not a passing thought, or a desire to do something or go somewhere and you change
your mind. There are real consequences that are evil that come from the action.

So much of what people call sin, is just a way of excusing sin by saying it is so over whelming, there
is nothing they can do, it is just who they are, their weakness and limits. It is like a moth to a flame,
to two are going to meet, slavery and addiction, bang.

Odd Christ, Paul, Peter and the rest do not take about sin like this, instead the opposite.
It is something they are now free from and live in the world of love and acceptance in Christ.

Let me list some of the issues people have. Swearing. How you deal with shock and frustrations.
Anger. How you deal with evil and negligence of others. Stealing. How you trust God and look
for ways in love to resolve the issues you have got. These are all resolvable issues, that people
face everyday. In Christ we have the victory. Are you willing to take it?
 
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whatisreal

Guest
The word repent is what is needed to be defined. You repent of unbelief to believe and be saved. Then we repent as our reasonable service, but we still have free will to yield or not yield.
 
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willybob

Guest
NOTHING we do here on earth, will keep us saved.

EXCEPT for having faith and belief in Jesus.

We CANNOT lose salvation, ever. UNLESS we deny God outright, as Peter did when He denied knowing Jesus.

So all the works you've done your entire life, will not save you nor keep you saved.

JESUS SAVES.

WORKS DON'T.

not keeping covenant through obedience from the heart is denying God out right..
 
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willybob

Guest
would you agree maybe you misspoke here?

it is always grace thats keeps us saved

but those who have no works of the Holy spirit

arent saved and their lack of these works reveal that

but dont disqualify them because the lack thereof shows their faith was dead

therefor never accepted grace

(again not using authority here just asking a question)
What do you perceive grace to be? ....and accept Jesus is found anywhere in the text... however receive the ingrafted word and obey Jesus is..Therefore receiving Jesus is biblical, of which means obedience from the heart out of sincerity, the 4th condition of the heart found in the parable of the sower...Therefore its God that finds us acceptable,ie (the worthy) not the other way around..seems you have some confusion of words, hope this helps, be blessed and dig deep building your house on the Rock of truth, the world is flooded to the mountain tops with lies out of the mouth of the dragon and his false prophets..
 
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willybob

Guest
With respect, are you agreeing or disagreeing with the post that you quote?
just looking for clarification, in that their are many confused doctrines floating around in these last days...then they say everyone somehow messes up, I hope they mean sins of ignorance ,still growing in virtuous wisdom, mistakes because none are perfect in knowledge and completely free from ignorance, and not the rebellious vile sins of the flesh that Paul said would disqualify one from the kingdom...
 
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willybob

Guest
The word repent is what is needed to be defined. You repent of unbelief to believe and be saved. Then we repent as our reasonable service, but we still have free will to yield or not yield.
true, and unbelief is biblicaly defined as willful rebellion against the word of God...Paul warns of this in 1 Cor 10. and uses the disobedient Hebrews in Exodus/Numbers/Deut. as an example who died because of unbelief...They certainly believed there was a God, even the devils believe from that respect, but they obeyed not and died in the wilderness..
 
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willybob

Guest
The Comforter, the Spirit of Grace, is sent to those that obey God's commandments...John 14-15.16
 
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willybob

Guest
NNM

The idea of dirty rags is in
Isaiah 64:6


It's referring to RIGHTEOUSNESS, not our works.

OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS is as dirty rags before the Lord.
This is because of ourselves we have NO righteousness.

There is none righteous, no not one.
Romans 1:18
Romans 3:10

We have no righteousness of our own - we cannot be perfect enough for God.
RIGHTEOUSNESS IS IMPUTED TO US BY CHRIST.
Hebrews 12:22-24

Our WORKS are NOT as filthy rags.
God requires good works, as you yourself have said.
Did you give up mmd (or whatever you said)
Is this not a good work?

Don't get works mixed up with righteousness.
Greetings Fran

When Paul was speaking none righteosu he open his declaration with "it is written"

Romans 3

There is none good not one)? What is Paul referencing from the OT?

Every single PASSAGE Paul was quoting from in the old testament speaking of the wicked who were CONTRASTED against the righteous..

Romans 3
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. 5 But if our unrighteousness (the Jews as a nation, Isaiah 64) commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) 6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? 8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. 9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; (the Jewish nation and the Gentile nations, not individuals per say) An example of this is found in Isaiah 64. Whereas the righteous prophet Isaiah was speaking to a wicked and perverse nation, Israel. In that all of her righteousness was as filthy rags fading away in their iniquities).

10 As it is written, (Paul is drawing from the OT) There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

In examining Paul's declarations to the Romans in chapter 3, let's use two OT examples, Joseph and Hanna, and see if their works are being referenced by Paul. Or could it be that Paul is speaking about other kinds of people? Possibly the wicked and not the righteous? Joseph and Hanna are but two of the many righteous men/women in the OT, I contend that Paul is not speaking of the righteous in verses 10-18 in Romans 3. But rather Paul is referencing the wicked in Psalms 14, 53, 5, 140, 10, 36 and Proverbs 1-16, 16-8, and Isaiah 59-7,8

Psalms 14-1, the wicked who say there is no God. Psalms 53-1 the wicked who are corrupt and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. None of the wicked do good. Not in any of these verses in which Paul quotes from is he referring to the righteous. Like all chapters, and in both of these occasions, the righteous are always separated from the wicked. Would these OT quotes be speaking about the likes of Joseph, or Hanna etc? Absolutely not! These two Psalms are speaking about the fools who believe not God and the wicked that obey not God. If both Psalms are examined carefully we can find the wicked spoken of in contrast to the righteous. So, in drawing from these two Psalms, Paul is most defiantly speaking of the unrighteous, not the righteous. Therefore types like Joseph and Hanna cannot be who Paul is referencing when he says "There is none righteous, no, not one".

Romans 3- 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

Psalm 53-3, 5-9, 140-3 in NONE of the quotes by Paul is David speaking of the righteous. But rather the wicked, when they are conceived of Satan, that go astray, venturing out from his influential womb (Mystery Babylon, his church), doing his bidding and speaking his lies, (when he speaks a lie he speaketh of "his own" John 8-44).Does this sound like Joseph and Hanna? Nay, may God forbid such slanders upon the righteous and worthy! They use this false teaching to promote the Luther/Calvin lie of total depravity. I ask: Can we place Joseph and Hanna in this same category too? No!!!

but two of the many righteous men/women in the OT, I contend that Paul is not speaking of the righteous in verses 10-18 in Romans 3. But rather Paul is referencing the wicked in Psalms 14, 53, 5, 140, 10, 36 and Proverbs 1-16, 16-8, and Isaiah 59-7,8

Psalms 14-1, the wicked who say there is no God. Psalms 53-1 the wicked who are corrupt and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. None of the wicked do good. Not in any of these verses in which Paul quotes from is he referring to the righteous. Like all chapters, and in both of these occasions, the righteous are always separated from the wicked. Would these OT quotes be speaking about the likes of Joseph, or Hanna etc? Absolutely not! These two Psalms are speaking about the fools who believe not God and the wicked that obey not God. If both Psalms are examined carefully we can find the wicked spoken of in contrast to the righteous. So, in drawing from these two Psalms, Paul is most defiantly speaking of the unrighteous, not the righteous. Therefore types like Joseph and Hanna cannot be who Paul is referencing when he says "There is none righteous, no, not one".
Romans 3- 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

Psalm 53-3, 5-9, 140-3 in NONE of the quotes by Paul is David speaking of the righteous. But rather the wicked, when they are conceived of Satan, that go astray, venturing out from his influential womb (Mystery Babylon, his church), doing his bidding and speaking his lies, (when he speaks a lie he speaketh of "his own" John 8-44).Does this sound like Joseph and Hanna? Nay, may God forbid such slanders upon the righteous and worthy! They use this false teaching to promote the Luther/Calvin lie of total depravity. I ask: Can we place Joseph and Hanna in this same category too? No!!!

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:


Psalm 10-7 In this chapter it speaks of the wicked in their pride that persecute the righteous with curses of bitterness out of their mouths of which the apostle James warns against in chapter 3. Do we ever find Joseph and Hanna speaking such things? No!

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known:

Here Paul is drawing in generalities from Proverbs 1-16, 16-8, and Isaiah 59-7,8. In all three chapters it is speaking of a heart that devises evil schemes and the wicked deeds that they madly scurry after. Their feet rush into battle. This sounds more like the wicked deeds of King Saul, and not Joseph and Hanna.

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Psalm 36-1 David has a message from God in his heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked because there is no fear of God before their eyes. Did Joseph and Hanna have the fear of the Lord? Yes!!!
 
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Ariel82

Guest
With respect, are you agreeing or disagreeing with the post that you quote?
He believes you can lose salvation if you do not have "obedience from the heart" because he calls that "denying God outright"

Also he has said

the world is flooded to the mountain tops with lies out of the mouth of the dragon and his false prophets
So yeah.....

Just sit back and watch the flood?
 
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willybob

Guest
Fran, sorry for the double paste in my last post, I was copying from a study I did and didn't realize I double copied some portions...