Not By Works

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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The truth is people always struggle with their lives and as Paul describes

21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.
22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law;
23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the
law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.
24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
Rom 7

Sadly some suggest that we never move beyond this aspiration, and it is a lie and evil to
suggest walking in the Spirit and flowing with the gifts of the Spirit can be a reality.

Such people invent labels and then pursue an agenda to root out deceivers. It is here that
the root of division has been sown. Jesus was very specific. The good seed planted in the
good soil will grow and produce its fruit. The enemy has sown weeds but they will not
defeat or effect the good seed, and rooting it out will damage the good seed.

So if one aspires to fulfil the Holy Spirits at work in our hearts, is deemed evil deception and
worthless, you should know these are reprobates who are talking, who do not know Jesus.

I am crucified with Christ, I have His patience, endurance, love and hope because the Holy
Spirit lives within me. So let no one be deceived, we are to do this

24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.
Heb 10

The false teaching being spread is that self-righteousness is the evil that is defeating the
church, rather than nothing is defeating the church, we are following Jesus and His ways,
full of the Holy Spirit and His love.

The only issue has always been repentance, sorrow, faith and following Jesus. Amen.
oh. I know Jesus . Jesus said the truth shall set you free. so, when I learn and accept the definitions of words, then I am living in truth.

so, when you refuse to accept the meaning of words, and believe the sick lie that Jesus only forgives, and not saves , then you are in bondage to trying to earn your salvation.

join me and many others who trust Christ for salvation, then carry out the life of living as He wants us to.

throw out your churches lies and join us and spread the Gospel- believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,143
628
113
The truth is people always struggle with their lives and as Paul describes

21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.
22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law;
23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the
law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.
24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
Rom 7

Sadly some suggest that we never move beyond this aspiration, and it is a lie and evil to
suggest walking in the Spirit and flowing with the gifts of the Spirit can be a reality.

Such people invent labels and then pursue an agenda to root out deceivers. It is here that
the root of division has been sown. Jesus was very specific. The good seed planted in the
good soil will grow and produce its fruit. The enemy has sown weeds but they will not
defeat or effect the good seed, and rooting it out will damage the good seed.

So if one aspires to fulfil the Holy Spirits at work in our hearts, is deemed evil deception and
worthless, you should know these are reprobates who are talking, who do not know Jesus.

I am crucified with Christ, I have His patience, endurance, love and hope because the Holy
Spirit lives within me. So let no one be deceived, we are to do this

24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.
Heb 10

The false teaching being spread is that self-righteousness is the evil that is defeating the
church, rather than nothing is defeating the church, we are following Jesus and His ways,
full of the Holy Spirit and His love.

The only issue has always been repentance, sorrow, faith and following Jesus. Amen.
I do not necessarily see two sides, one bad and one good in this discussion. I see two sides that may be misunderstanding one another. One side teaches security of the believer which I believe in. The other side teaches obedience after salvation not being optional, but God's will for us, which I also agree with. The error is including one and excluding the other, or thinking that the other guy is excluding the other, when perhaps he or she is not excluding the other side at all.

Just from my perspective. :)
 
Feb 15, 2019
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oh. I know Jesus . Jesus said the truth shall set you free. so, when I learn and accept the definitions of words, then I am living in truth.
so, when you refuse to accept the meaning of words, and believe the sick lie that Jesus only forgives, and not saves , then you are in bondage to trying to earn your salvation.
join me and many others who trust Christ for salvation, then carry out the life of living as He wants us to.
throw out your churches lies and join us and spread the Gospel- believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
Hi gb9,

You use the words "sick lie" "earn your salvation" - You live a very sheltered life.
All you need to do is start to talk to your fellow believers in church and you will discover the variety of
beliefs is vast, and few understand as you suggest.

As you miss-understand my position and those of the Nazarine church, I do not think things can progress.
Paul described the danger of what you are doing in these terms,

14 Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.
2 Timothy 2

It saddens me that to aspire to walk in Jesus's ways, empowered by the Holy Spirit is a sick lie.
But then I can only imagine you feel you have the ability to raise yourself up above the word of God
and judge me, for simply sharing the word of the Lord.

25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Gal 5

16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to
the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
Gal 5

5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--
has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on
those who are disobedient.
7 Therefore do not be partners with them.
Eph 5

7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thess 4

A reprobate does not understand how to live a holy life, so their opposition is to be expected.
God bless you.

I am happy to repeat the word of God to my last breath because it does not change or His ways.
And to Praise His name, brings joy to my heart, each and every day, no matter how many sinners
call His ways evil and a sick lie, earning ones salvation.
 
Feb 15, 2019
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I do not necessarily see two sides, one bad and one good in this discussion. I see two sides that may be misunderstanding one another. One side teaches security of the believer which I believe in. The other side teaches obedience after salvation not being optional, but God's will for us, which I also agree with. The error is including one and excluding the other, or thinking that the other guy is excluding the other, when perhaps he or she is not excluding the other side at all.

Just from my perspective. :)
I agree with you. What I have found is some refuse to accept perspectives, but have created
a virulent antipathy, as exampled by gb9 calling a group "sick lie" "earning salvation"

One believer who actually went to a Nazarine church suggested it should be "stamped out"
And the anger expressed, comes from only one source, unresolved sin and hurt in their hearts.
Often they have no reluctance to declare it is satanic, and only inspired by spiritual deception.
And what triggers this anger. Holiness, righteousness, purity, truth, honesty, walking in the light,
repenting of sin, turning from evil and doing good.

Jesus is simple. Those who do evil deeds hate the light because of their evil deeds.
Until one has resolved everything to date, no individual can really speak the truth. It is so obvious,
from the people I have interacted with. I used an illustration weeks ago about our hearts being a
bucket, full of slop, or the Holy Spirit. Kick it a bit, and what comes out.

If people continue to read Gods word, it will change them, it will reform them, and they will see
things differently.

Ironic reactions. Emotions do not matter, only facts, says the believer shouting as loud as they can
and wanting to wring the neck of the other party. Emotions are governing everything in such an
interaction, because the emotions have risen up so high. But for individuals to realise they are not
what they think they are, is a shock. So my friends, start to listen to who you are, and let the Lord
lead you through. There is always hope, because you are reading this, so God bless you, Amen.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
868
767
93
Thanks MIGO hahahah little sore...neck, right shoulder, arm, elbow, sternum and cut thumb full length.......I was like...wow that hurt HAHAH got right up and went back to work....no time to lay around on the ground in pain HAHAHHAHAHHAHA......probably be stiff tomorrow.....and NO....I did not cuss....HAHAHHAH ;)

Wow, take care of yourself.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,543
2,243
113
I agree with you. What I have found is some refuse to accept perspectives, but have created
a virulent antipathy, as exampled by gb9 calling a group "sick lie" "earning salvation"

One believer who actually went to a Nazarine church suggested it should be "stamped out"
And the anger expressed, comes from only one source, unresolved sin and hurt in their hearts.
Often they have no reluctance to declare it is satanic, and only inspired by spiritual deception.
And what triggers this anger. Holiness, righteousness, purity, truth, honesty, walking in the light,
repenting of sin, turning from evil and doing good.

Jesus is simple. Those who do evil deeds hate the light because of their evil deeds.
Until one has resolved everything to date, no individual can really speak the truth. It is so obvious,
from the people I have interacted with. I used an illustration weeks ago about our hearts being a
bucket, full of slop, or the Holy Spirit. Kick it a bit, and what comes out.

If people continue to read Gods word, it will change them, it will reform them, and they will see
things differently.

Ironic reactions. Emotions do not matter, only facts, says the believer shouting as loud as they can
and wanting to wring the neck of the other party. Emotions are governing everything in such an
interaction, because the emotions have risen up so high. But for individuals to realise they are not
what they think they are, is a shock. So my friends, start to listen to who you are, and let the Lord
lead you through. There is always hope, because you are reading this, so God bless you, Amen.

all right, if I mis-understand your or your church's beliefs, then we can settle it very easily.


the truth is that when one comes to Christ, that person is forgiven and saved the moment they truly believe and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.

agree or disagree??
 
Nov 24, 2013
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Well I believe that justification is based WHOLLY on imputed righteousness, because you have to be justified and born of God before you can even begin to have experiential righteousness

Justification by imputed righteousness with progressive sanctification and preservation as continuing results of the Finished work of Christ
What is experiential righteousness? Would that not be walking upright? I don't see this in the scriptures unless you mean increasing light within?

And this question is just that. Not a challenge. :)
 
Feb 15, 2019
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all right, if I mis-understand your or your church's beliefs, then we can settle it very easily.


the truth is that when one comes to Christ, that person is forgiven and saved the moment they truly believe and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.

agree or disagree??
I agree, as soon as someone start walking with Jesus.
 
Nov 24, 2013
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Here is my reason for the question:

Rom 8:30  But the ones whomG3739 G1161 he predefined,G4309 theseG3778 alsoG2532 he called.G2564 AndG2532 whomG3739 he called,G2564 theseG3778 alsoG2532 he justified.G1344 And whomG3739 G1161 he justified,G1344 theseG3778 alsoG2532 he glorified.G1392

This is the ABP bible. I seem to be able to understand better with this one.

This is past, yet continuing. Here is the Geneva translation note.


He uses the past tense for the present time, as the Hebrews use, who sometimes describe something that is to come by using the past tense, to signify the certainty of it: and he also is referring to God's continual working.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your post, but we already have these each of these positions. We are rendered innocent or justified by being In Him.

So how is this all worked out? By our works? Or by His Spirit working? That's what I am trying to find out here.

I can see that the once saved, always saved has a valid point. Jesus has finished this all for us if we have been called and answered Him. That's the beginning. Now how is this worked out?







 
Nov 24, 2013
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I agree, as soon as someone start walking with Jesus.
If I may...

What I perceive FHS, is that you are judging. I don't mean this as an insult, but we all can easily fall into this if we don't watch.

You aren't to judge yourself either. When we judge, we lose our identity. And our identity is not our self. That I as in I am crucified is translated as ego which is the fallen heart of every human being. When born again, that I is no longer active but is crucified. Yet, our old way of thinking must understand this and be renewed in the truth. So...what is our identity?

Our identity is Jesus and His life. His perfect life that fulfilled the laws of God for each and every man/woman. He did this for us. And this is the good news. We are safe in Him. He has overcome all things for us.

When we don't realize these things, we are subject to being overcome by what is past issues.

The churches failure has been to know and understand the power of the Cross. But, this is changing. So get ready!
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
868
767
93
Just a quick question - are any of you members of any other christian forums? If so, would you share? I know this question should be under another topic but this thread is about the only one I use on this site?
 
Feb 15, 2019
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If I may...

What I perceive FHS, is that you are judging. I don't mean this as an insult, but we all can easily fall into this if we don't watch.

You aren't to judge yourself either. When we judge, we lose our identity. And our identity is not our self. That I as in I am crucified is translated as ego which is the fallen heart of every human being. When born again, that I is no longer active but is crucified. Yet, our old way of thinking must understand this and be renewed in the truth. So...what is our identity?

Our identity is Jesus and His life. His perfect life that fulfilled the laws of God for each and every man/woman. He did this for us. And this is the good news. We are safe in Him. He has overcome all things for us.

When we don't realize these things, we are subject to being overcome by what is past issues.

The churches failure has been to know and understand the power of the Cross. But, this is changing. So get ready!
I am not sure what you mean by judging.
You are saying by realizing our identity, we are no longer overcome by past issues.

What do you mean?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
6,313
2,062
113
all right, if I mis-understand your or your church's beliefs, then we can settle it very easily.


the truth is that when one comes to Christ, that person is forgiven and saved the moment they truly believe and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.

agree or disagree??
I agree, as soon as someone start walking with Jesus.
Basically you do not agree based on your above response to GB.

You come across as saying that someone is saved when they start walking with Jesus and not by their faith in Jesus as accepting him as Lord.

So faith has no bearing on salvation but the works that follow.
If that is the case then one has to identify, quantify and qualify what that walk entails and when it started.

I could be wrong and have misunderstood what you are trying to convey.

The fact is that we are exhorted as believers to walk like Jesus.
Let our light shine, be salt, have a faith that shows up.

But my concern concerning your response is that people can look at the external and disregard the internal, the heart.

So at the end of the day.
Saved by faith or by our walk?
Faith is the constant here but not necessarily that walk.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I have a suggestion for you, GO BACK AND READ ALL OF EVERYONE's posts from the beginning that you suspect we are deceivers teaching disobedience to GOD. YOU WILL FIND OUT THERE ARE ALMOST NO SUCH PEOPLE HERE. THEN COME BACK AND APOLOGIZE.

Obedience is a NATURAL part of OUR GOD GIVEN CHRISTIAN LOVE, Rom. 5:5. PERIOD.

Our Human Spirit is Born Again by the Holy Spirit the moment we genuinely BELIEVE, and the Spirit births spirit, that has Eternal Life in it. Which is SALVATION of the Human Spirit. That Eternal Life, will dominate the Human Mind, motivating us to Strive to walk like JESUS, in OBEDIENCE. THAT GOD GIVEN LOVE, will NATURALLY COME OUT IN THE FORM OF OBEDIENCE. That is Sanctification, and we will not be Perfectly Sanctified until the Resurrection. Most of us HERE Believe that with our whole Heart. Therefore YOU ARE A HOUND DOG BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE, and you need to apologize.
He cannot do that....Seohce, Argueless A.K.A. "C" cannot help but peddle his false accusations......helps his Catholic dogma.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Just a quick question - are any of you members of any other christian forums? If so, would you share? I know this question should be under another topic but this thread is about the only one I use on this site?
Not me....I tried a few and they were a joke.....10 times as many deceivers, workers for, salvation losers....
 
Jul 3, 2015
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Just a quick question - are any of you members of any other christian forums? If so, would you share? I know this question should be under another topic but this thread is about the only one I use on this site?
I do not believe any of the others that still exist can compare to Christian Chat. One I used to look at occasionally (without posting) had intrusive ads interrupting the flow of conversations. Another one I was a member of for years before I found my way here, was hacked some time ago, and it completely messed up their format somehow, and they may also have undergone a platform change which was not an improvement either.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,077
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Apologize for asking questions?

NIV1984 1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

You did not ask questions, YOU HURLED ACCUSATIONS, in my opinion.


Do you even know what BORN AGAIN is exactly?

Do you even know the Difference between Salvation and Sanctification?

How do you KNOW when you are SAVED?


Now there are Three questions, the I do not think you can even come close to answering correctly.
 
Nov 6, 2018
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You did not ask questions, YOU HURLED ACCUSATIONS, in my opinion.


Do you even know what BORN AGAIN is exactly?

Do you even know the Difference between Salvation and Sanctification?

How do you KNOW when you are SAVED?


Now there are Three questions, the I do not think you can even come close to answering correctly.
I'll help that guy out, for the first question, hint: nothing physical, which rule out works

For the second question, I hope s/he was paying attention to my conversation with VCO about this

We talked about it for days already

I even started a thread on this just because how inspiring the clarity of this understanding becomes,

Sanctification is evidence of salvation, but this evidence might not be apparent in infants of babes in Christ

And we should not be too quick to point out lack of visible evidence of sanctification as evidence of not being saved

And this seems like why it is so easy to confuse sanctification as the same as salvation even if they are different

A song to enjoy
question is, was s/he paying attention?
 
Nov 6, 2018
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We PRACTICE RIGHTEOUSNESS, to conform our Human Body to be like CHRIST, or our Human Spirit, and that will take a lifetime.

Anything that We PRACTICE daily, we will become better and better at at.

Psalm 106:3 (NASB)
3 How blessed are those who keep justice, Who practice righteousness at all times!

1 John 2:29 (ESV)
29 If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.


Think about this, we are the one's who PRACTICE RIGHTEOUSNESS.

The Children of the Devil, NEVER have the lifestyle Characteristic of one who PRACTICES RIGHTEOUSNESS.
The answer for question two is laid out here