Not By Works

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theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,117
113
Wow. 5,067 pages in this thread... and only about two pages (maybe) of material, repeated over and over.

I see where some members have eventually gotten off the merry-go-round, but there are always more to hop on it and keep it spinning.
Can you verify that no new thoughts will occur?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Disagree, John is specifically referencing the seed...the seed CANNOT sin....that is the new nature that cannot sin, this is why the new nature practices righteousness.

Remember the false doctrine John was arguing against...that is the key.
I agree...we are born of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED........seed that CANNOT be corrupted is exactly that........the spirit that has been born again from above does NOT SIN.....and that is why our salvation is SECURE in Christ.........
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,368
113
Wow. 5,067 pages in this thread... and only about two pages (maybe) of material, repeated over and over.

I see where some members have eventually gotten off the merry-go-round, but there are always more to hop on it and keep it spinning.
Wrong answer.....we cover many subjects in this thread....and the fact you say what you said above proves you have not read the thread.........
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,117
4,129
113
Nope it is not, I do not accept Lordship salvation teaching it is a false doctrine

Do you even KNOW what LORDSHIP SALVATION ACTUALLY MEANS ? ? ?

IT means You are not SAVED until you received HIM AS LORD, meaning MASTER, of your LIFE.


John 1:12-13 (NASB)
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. [Born Again]

RECEIVED HIM AS WHAT ? ? ?

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,

But a genuine CONFESSION of JESUS IS MY LORD, means it must be true in your Heart [human spirit], before you can say it as a CONFESSION.

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

IT IS NOT works righteousness, because NO ONE, and CONFESS Jesus as LORD except by the HOLY SPIRIT, it is a work of the HOLY SPIRIT.

1 Corinthians 12:3 (HCSB)
3 Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

That is SALVATION, but OBEDIENCE is a Product of LOVE, that comes AFTER SALVATION.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 John 2:5-6 (HCSB)
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly in him the love of God is perfected. This is how we know we are in Him:
6 The one who says he remains in Him should walk just as He walked.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 If you love Me [that is Born Again], you will keep My commands.


NOW THAT IS WHAT "LORDSHIP SALVATION" ACTUALLY MEANS, IN A NUTSHELL.

WOULD YOU BE SO KIND AS TO POINT OUT WHAT PART OF THOSE VERSES THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH AND FALSELY LABELED FALSELY DOCTRINE.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
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I agree...we are born of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED........seed that CANNOT be corrupted is exactly that........the spirit that has been born again from above does NOT SIN.....and that is why our salvation is SECURE in Christ.........
You must still put to death the deeds of the flesh, and walk according to the Spirit. Make no provision for the flesh to fulfill it's lusts, those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with it's affections and lusts, if we live after the flesh, we will die, but if we put to death the deeds of the flesh by the Spirit, we will live,
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
875
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Do you even KNOW what LORDSHIP SALVATION ACTUALLY MEANS ? ? ?

IT means You are not SAVED until you received HIM AS LORD, meaning MASTER, of your LIFE.


John 1:12-13 (NASB)
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. [Born Again]

RECEIVED HIM AS WHAT ? ? ?

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,

But a genuine CONFESSION of JESUS IS MY LORD, means it must be true in your Heart [human spirit], before you can say it as a CONFESSION.

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

IT IS NOT works righteousness, because NO ONE, and CONFESS Jesus as LORD except by the HOLY SPIRIT, it is a work of the HOLY SPIRIT.

1 Corinthians 12:3 (HCSB)
3 Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

That is SALVATION, but OBEDIENCE is a Product of LOVE, that comes AFTER SALVATION.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 John 2:5-6 (HCSB)
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly in him the love of God is perfected. This is how we know we are in Him:
6 The one who says he remains in Him should walk just as He walked.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 If you love Me [that is Born Again], you will keep My commands.


NOW THAT IS WHAT "LORDSHIP SALVATION" ACTUALLY MEANS, IN A NUTSHELL.

WOULD YOU BE SO KIND AS TO POINT OUT WHAT PART OF THOSE VERSES THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH AND FALSELY LABELED FALSELY DOCTRINE.
not to mention we are bought with a price and no longer our own, which is the very definition of being under a LORD.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I agree...we are born of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED........seed that CANNOT be corrupted is exactly that........the spirit that has been born again from above does NOT SIN.....and that is why our salvation is SECURE in Christ.........
I was thinking about this haha...and I realized that stating that we can determine our salvation by our deeds which is back door salvation by works.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
875
113
I agree...we are born of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED........seed that CANNOT be corrupted is exactly that........the spirit that has been born again from above does NOT SIN.....and that is why our salvation is SECURE in Christ.........
The text does not say the incorruptible seed cannot sin, (though that is true) what it says is the one who is born of God cannot sin (present, continual, progressive tense) because God's seed remains in him, therefore he cannot sin. (present, continual tense verb)

Eternally grateful's interpretation was the best given.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Do you even KNOW what LORDSHIP SALVATION ACTUALLY MEANS ? ? ?

IT means You are not SAVED until you received HIM AS LORD, meaning MASTER, of your LIFE.


John 1:12-13 (NASB)
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. [Born Again]

RECEIVED HIM AS WHAT ? ? ?

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,

But a genuine CONFESSION of JESUS IS MY LORD, means it must be true in your Heart [human spirit], before you can say it as a CONFESSION.

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

IT IS NOT works righteousness, because NO ONE, and CONFESS Jesus as LORD except by the HOLY SPIRIT, it is a work of the HOLY SPIRIT.

1 Corinthians 12:3 (HCSB)
3 Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

That is SALVATION, but OBEDIENCE is a Product of LOVE, that comes AFTER SALVATION.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 John 2:5-6 (HCSB)
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly in him the love of God is perfected. This is how we know we are in Him:
6 The one who says he remains in Him should walk just as He walked.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 If you love Me [that is Born Again], you will keep My commands.


NOW THAT IS WHAT "LORDSHIP SALVATION" ACTUALLY MEANS, IN A NUTSHELL.

WOULD YOU BE SO KIND AS TO POINT OUT WHAT PART OF THOSE VERSES THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH AND FALSELY LABELED FALSELY DOCTRINE.
Mr. VCO I can regular font just fine btw and I am try to be diligent and read what I respond to although sometimes I rush and do mess up......but I really want to tell that this is not the Gospel

IT means You are not SAVED until you received HIM AS LORD, meaning MASTER, of your LIFE.



The Gospel is laying down our own works of righteousness that can never save and believing in Christ Jesus who made the payment for our sins on the cross for us and accepting His free gift of salvation....In Ephesians there is no addendum about making Him Lord, He is Lord.

Making him master of your life is not salvation....that almost sounds Catholic actually
 
Dec 27, 2018
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I was thinking about this haha...and I realized that stating that we can determine our salvation by our deeds which is back door salvation by works.
Who says that we can determine our salvation by our deeds. Not the "perserverance" doctrine. In fact, what we state is exactly the OPPOSITE, that salvation changes and conditions the way we walk, not our walk determining our salvation.

Again, the text does not say the seed cannot sin, (though that is true). What the text is saying is that the one who is born of God does not practice sin, because the seed remains in Him.

1 john 3:9- Whosoever is born of God (believer) doth not commit sin; for his seed (new nature) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

IF you say the first pronoun, whoever is born of God, is the seed, then you have the seed remaining in the seed. You are interpreting it thusly..." whoever is born of God (seed) cannot sin for his seed remains in him (seed) and he cannot sin.

The first pronoun whoever is the believer. so is the second and the third. Because the seed remains in the believer, not in itself.

Simple exegesis
 
Dec 27, 2018
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875
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Mr. VCO I can regular font just fine btw and I am try to be diligent and read what I respond to although sometimes I rush and do mess up......but I really want to tell that this is not the Gospel

IT means You are not SAVED until you received HIM AS LORD, meaning MASTER, of your LIFE.



The Gospel is laying down our own works of righteousness that can never save and believing in Christ Jesus who made the payment for our sins on the cross for us and accepting His free gift of salvation....In Ephesians there is no addendum about making Him Lord, He is Lord.

Making him master of your life is not salvation....that almost sounds Catholic actually
You cannot be saved without Christ being your Lord, because, being redeemed, you are bought with a price, you are no longer your own, but belong to another, even Christ If you belong to another, that one who you belong to is your Lord. Paul is using slavery (doulos) language here.

You are bought with a price, and you belong to Christ, and He owns you, you are not your own. Therefore, it clearly follows that Christ is your Lord if you are saved, whether you know it or not.

IN FACT, Christ is Lord of ALL, even though people do not realize it or accept it.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
875
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You cannot be saved without Christ being your Lord, because, being redeemed, you are bought with a price, you are no longer your own, but belong to another, even Christ If you belong to another, that one who you belong to is your Lord. Paul is using slavery (doulos) language here.

You are bought with a price, and you belong to Christ, and He owns you, you are not your own. Therefore, it clearly follows that Christ is your Lord if you are saved, whether you know it or not.

IN FACT, Christ is Lord of ALL, even though people do not realize it or accept it.
Jesus Christ is LORD. Saying that is nothing more than a CONFESSION of the TRUTH. :)

Signing out for now.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I agree...we are born of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED........seed that CANNOT be corrupted is exactly that........the spirit that has been born again from above does NOT SIN.....and that is why our salvation is SECURE in Christ.........
I have read this three times.....Amen and Amen....so uplifting!!!

We need another life, that is what happens when we are born again....exactly what Jesus told Nicodemus.

This is what Paul teaches over and over again

We are to reckon ourselves dead to sin - not through our own power, not through our own 'good' living, but by the merit of the Lord Jesus. Remember - all of our 'goodness' is as filthy rags. He accepts only the spotless righteousness of the Lord Jesus! So do not attempt to cultivate the 'good' qualities you have. Yield all to Jesus. Feed the spirit-man on the things of the Spirit and you will become a full grown spiritual person and receive a full reward (II John 8). Expect nothing of the flesh and depend entirely on Jesus.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
You cannot be saved without Christ being your Lord, because, being redeemed, you are bought with a price, you are no longer your own, but belong to another, even Christ If you belong to another, that one who you belong to is your Lord. Paul is using slavery (doulos) language here.

You are bought with a price, and you belong to Christ, and He owns you, you are not your own. Therefore, it clearly follows that Christ is your Lord if you are saved, whether you know it or not.

IN FACT, Christ is Lord of ALL, even though people do not realize it or accept it.

The price was paid at the cross by Jesus

To state we owe God our lives for salvation is not right...it is a free gift of grace.

It is all of God....we cannot pay Him back
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Who says that we can determine our salvation by our deeds. Not the "perserverance" doctrine. In fact, what we state is exactly the OPPOSITE, that salvation changes and conditions the way we walk, not our walk determining our salvation.

Again, the text does not say the seed cannot sin, (though that is true). What the text is saying is that the one who is born of God does not practice sin, because the seed remains in Him.

1 john 3:9- Whosoever is born of God (believer) doth not commit sin; for his seed (new nature) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

IF you say the first pronoun, whoever is born of God, is the seed, then you have the seed remaining in the seed. You are interpreting it thusly..." whoever is born of God (seed) cannot sin for his seed remains in him (seed) and he cannot sin.

The first pronoun whoever is the believer. so is the second and the third. Because the seed remains in the believer, not in itself.

Simple exegesis
Right so give me the metric for this "practice sin" like I said is lying every day count?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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The price was paid at the cross by Jesus

To state we owe God our lives for salvation is not right...it is a free gift of grace.

It is all of God....we cannot pay Him back
It is ALL Christ or it is fraudulent........any gospel that interjects self, works, earned merit, finished off or topped off by what we do, religious hoop jumping, self, assistance on our part etc....if as false as they come, not of God, of the devil and contrary to the truth!!
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
We are to reckon ourselves dead to sin - not through our own power, not through our own 'good' living, but by the merit of the Lord Jesus. Remember - all of our 'goodness' is as filthy rags. He accepts only the spotless righteousness of the Lord Jesus! So do not attempt to cultivate the 'good' qualities you have. Yield all to Jesus. Feed the spirit-man on the things of the Spirit and you will become a full grown spiritual person and receive a full reward (II John 8). Expect nothing of the flesh and depend entirely on Jesus.
These are not my words...but I cannot source them ....anyway I absolutely agree with it!!!

Set yourself free in Christ:)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I had to look to see who you were responding to....thank the CC "gods" for ignore..............no pun intended and for sure sarcasm found in the word "gods"
....I thank the computer programming gods as well.... Ignore is very helpful indeed..if it were not available I would not stick around that is for sure.
 

corazondeldei

Active member
Apr 17, 2019
151
33
28
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I agree...we are born of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED........seed that CANNOT be corrupted is exactly that........the spirit that has been born again from above does NOT SIN.....and that is why our salvation is SECURE in Christ.........
The seed is incorruptible but you are not.

NIV1984 1 Corinthians 15:49-58
And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.