Not By Works

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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Exactly.. trade one false gospel for another.
Is there anybody out there anymore that can present the Gospel correctly.

Surely a sign of the times.... thankfully we know God will always have His remnant!
You know.....the MINORITY states clearly that FAITH alone is what saves a man eternally with NO embellishments
......JESUS said that MANY (plenteous in NUMBER) will come before his throne peddling the same thing that MOST so called Christian religions peddle today....

FAITH plus some self effort.......like works, religious hoop jumping, supposed law keeping etc......THEY WILL NOT MAKE THE CUT because to EMBELLISH = false double cursed gospel with NO POWER and FOOLISH BEWITCHED people buy into such an INEPT false gospel...<--PAUL, GALATIAN letter 1st CENTURY A.D.

And the tragic truth, the very same people ACCUSE us of the same crap they accused PAUL of in the 1st century A.D.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
20,045
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For Dcon to use, when he calls people "hoop jumpers".. :sneaky:

View attachment 208619
HAHAHAHAH or a poodle jumping through a hoop at a dog show........the religious inept belief of some and the false gospels they peddle sickens me because it totally devalues JESUS and enthrones self
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,379
467
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So Heb 12 overrules the fact that they were perfected forever? How does that equate for the reputation of God’s word?

perfected forever still means perfected forever Hebrews did not say they may be perfected, it depends on their willingness to be sanctified, can a believer who has gods spirit return to the point he is worse than he was before he was born again? How is that possible?

who rejects the work,of sanctification? Who can overpower God (those who are being sanctified) ? Who can break the seal of the spirit (Eph 1) Who can save themselves by works of righteousness which we have done (Titus 3). Who can overcome Gods promise to all who have taken the bread from heaven promises that they will never hunger or thirst, live forever, never die, be raised on the last day, and has eternal life) what hope do they have to continue to believe if they do not have eternal life (1 John) I can go on and on about eternal security passages.

why would you want to try to save yourself by your work, and reject gods promises? Just asking.
Your quotes in Blue. My Response in Red.

Hebrews 12v14-15

14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;

What is Grace?

Titus 2

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.



How do you fall short of Gods grace? Look back at Hebrews 12v14-15. Justification (belief in Christ) without the pursuit of holiness/sanctification (Hebrews 12v14) cannot result in seeing the Lord. It’s plain what the word of God says. In black and white. And Grace will not disappoint, to those who pursue holiness, because Grace empowers (Titus 2v11-14), it teaches us to live a sanctified and holy life.

If you pursue holiness, you will have Grace. If you have Grace, and you choose to continue pursuing holiness, you have no trouble.



So Heb 12 overrules the fact that they were perfected forever? How does that equate for the reputation of God’s word?

perfected forever still means perfected forever Hebrews did not say they may be perfected, it depends on their willingness to be sanctified, can a believer who has gods spirit return to the point he is worse than he was before he was born again? How is that possible?


2 Peter 2
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”





who rejects the work,of sanctification? A believer has free will. They are free to accept sanctification (the pursuit of holiness – Hebrews 12v14), or reject it (2 Peter 2v21). Who can overpower God (those who are being sanctified) ? God will not drag you into heaven kicking and screaming against his your will. Who can break the seal of the spirit (Eph 1) If you want to quote Ephesians 1v13-14 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

  • Then you need to know that believing in Jesus and the Gospel of Salvation includes those included in Ephesians 1v4 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,




Who can save themselves by works of righteousness which we have done (Titus 3).

Lets put in the whole section: Titus 3v4-7 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

See the sanctification there in v5? Just after your quoted section in v4.




Who can overcome Gods promise to all who have taken the bread from heaven promises that they will never hunger or thirst, live forever, never die, be raised on the last day, and has eternal life) what hope do they have to continue to believe if they do not have eternal life (1 John) I can go on and on about eternal security passages.

why would you want to try to save yourself by your work, and reject gods promises? Just asking.


You cannot save yourself by Works. I never stated this. You are saved by Faith. However faith includes obedience and holiness otherwise its not true faith.

All of the rest necessarily includes the process of sanctification above. If you don’t partake in holiness, obedience to the will of the Lord, you will fall short. Hebrews 12v14.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
8,440
8,938
113
You know.....the MINORITY states clearly that FAITH alone is what saves a man eternally with NO embellishments
......JESUS said that MANY (plenteous in NUMBER) will come before his throne peddling the same thing that MOST so called Christian religions peddle today....

FAITH plus some self effort.......like works, religious hoop jumping, supposed law keeping etc......THEY WILL NOT MAKE THE CUT because to EMBELLISH = false double cursed gospel with NO POWER and FOOLISH BEWITCHED people buy into such an INEPT false gospel...<--PAUL, GALATIAN letter 1st CENTURY A.D.

And the tragic truth, the very same people ACCUSE us of the same crap they accused PAUL of in the 1st century A.D.

And still they continue.... even as you lay out the truth!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
20,045
113
Jesus talks about blind guides. Here we are 2000 years later and they are present among us.
and still peddling the same religious hoop jumping drivel that Satan inspired in the "GARDEN" 1st century....as well as the same accusations against GRACE that they accused PAUL of.....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
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If thats the case why dont translators put that in the text to convey the idea and meaning behind it?

If what you're saying is true here it REALLY does some damage to the so called "word for word" translation idea and I will start preferring the other translations, IF ONLY I knew to check this from somewhere. You got any place where I could check this in " the greek "?
I study every word from the Greek and Hebrew because the nuances of the words are not easily transferred by the English.....the language makes it clear that SALVATION is eternally given, so is justification.......
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
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The greek word is haparte, literally it means to “miss the mark”

the way it is written in Greek is that it is an ongoing continuous event, ie, habitual or a lifestyle of missing the mark.
Exactly.....a child of God will not live a continual lifestyle of sin, they will sin, fail, fall on occasion and maybe even for a season like the prodigal.....BUT they never LOSE salvation and or their positional sanctification as a son/daughter of GOD
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
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Here's a reality check: the Word of God. How did the Lord respond to Satan? It is written, it is written, it is written. Let it be your reality. It will then be your reality. He called them gods to whom the Word of God came and the Scripture cannot be broken. <gasp>
Here are two reality checks...

1st What you peddle does not come from GOD (I.E. your twisted skewed view of scripture)
2nd If we say that we have no sin, we are devceived and the truth is not in US

John was inspired, you on the other hand.....not even close to the first letter that spells inspired -->I............
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
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I never denied it

however, you have to admit,

There are babes in christ

and mature adults in christ

the amount of obedience will reflect as such,

younalso have to account for prodigal children, who may not even look like christians at the time.
The bible is replete with every level of maturity and or failures in and by believers......

Some vessels of HONOUR and SOME not so HONOURABLE
SOME super faithful yet with sin <--Daniel
SOME unshakeable in faith yet sinners <---David
and everything in between

They cannot grasp this truth
 
Nov 24, 2019
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Virginia
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Here are two reality checks...

1st What you peddle does not come from GOD (I.E. your twisted skewed view of scripture)
2nd If we say that we have no sin, we are devceived and the truth is not in US

John was inspired, you on the other hand.....not even close to the first letter that spells inspired -->I............
We are all born steeped in sin aren’t we? Thank God we don’t have to stay in Egypt.

I love you.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
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No one ever denied this. The only debate among sane Christians is about, WHO GETS THE GLORY:

I maintain my salvation by my works <- Man centered, man gets part of the glory

God keeps me through the power of faith <- God centered, God gets all the glory, Soli deo Gloria.

If you disagree with the part in bold, you are on the WRONG SIDE of the Reformation! Taking the side of Rome!
AND I MUST EMBELLISH.....to believe a GOSPEL that is a faith/works BLEND does NOT SAVE a MAN......
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
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He never said otherwise. Eternally Grateful seems to have good doctrine

I once thought Eternal Security taught liberty to sin. It doesn’t. Not when properly understood. Quite the contrary, when properly understood.

Actually, there’s people in both OSAS and NOSAS that act like we have liberty to do as we please. Believing one can lose their salvation is not the secret to holy heart leading to obedient life. Faith, hope, and love through the Spirit are. Produced by God in us. As we abide in Him

OSAS people who understand OSAS know this. But they are not trusting their ability to be steadfast, rather in the steadfastness of Jesus.
They accused PAUL of the same thing since he preached GRACE and eternal salvation/justification......they literally accused him of preaching a license to sin.....the same drivel they peddle against us to this day.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
8,440
8,938
113
I like this one a lot @dcontroversal :)

The bible is replete with every level of maturity and or failures in and by believers......

Some vessels of HONOUR and SOME not so HONOURABLE
SOME super faithful yet with sin <--Daniel
SOME unshakeable in faith yet sinners <---David
and everything in between

They cannot grasp this truth
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
2,707
3,069
113
59
I chose to put it in AMP , maybe it may help those who are busy helping themselves...

Ephesians 2:4-7 Amplified Bible (AMP)
4 But God, being [so very] rich in mercy, because of His great and wonderful love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were [spiritually] dead and separated from Him because of our sins, He made us [spiritually] alive together with Christ (for by His grace—His undeserved favor and mercy—you have been saved from God’s judgment). 6 And He raised us up together with Him [when we believed], and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, [because we are] in Christ Jesus, 7 [and He did this] so that in the ages to come He might [clearly] show the immeasurable and unsurpassed riches of His grace in [His] kindness toward us in Christ Jesus [by providing for our redemption].

Christ is in heaven , where are we? , hidden in Christ , all the glory to God , we are SAVED by His amazing grace...
...xox...
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
20,045
113
I chose to put it in AMP , maybe it may help those who are busy helping themselves...

Ephesians 2:4-7 Amplified Bible (AMP)
4 But God, being [so very] rich in mercy, because of His great and wonderful love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were [spiritually] dead and separated from Him because of our sins, He made us [spiritually] alive together with Christ (for by His grace—His undeserved favor and mercy—you have been saved from God’s judgment). 6 And He raised us up together with Him [when we believed], and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, [because we are] in Christ Jesus, 7 [and He did this] so that in the ages to come He might [clearly] show the immeasurable and unsurpassed riches of His grace in [His] kindness toward us in Christ Jesus [by providing for our redemption].

Christ is in heaven , where are we? , hidden in Christ , all the glory to God , we are SAVED by His amazing grace...
...xox...
amen rose.........excellent verses and NOTE the latter part.....AGES TO COME -->Immeasurable and UNSURPASSED riches of his GRACE.........OUR BUYBACK <----a one and done deal!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,254
3,719
113
Your quotes in Blue. My Response in Red.

Hebrews 12v14-15

14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;

What is Grace?

Titus 2

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.



How do you fall short of Gods grace? Look back at Hebrews 12v14-15. Justification (belief in Christ) without the pursuit of holiness/sanctification (Hebrews 12v14) cannot result in seeing the Lord. It’s plain what the word of God says. In black and white. And Grace will not disappoint, to those who pursue holiness, because Grace empowers (Titus 2v11-14), it teaches us to live a sanctified and holy life.

If you pursue holiness, you will have Grace. If you have Grace, and you choose to continue pursuing holiness, you have no trouble.



So Heb 12 overrules the fact that they were perfected forever? How does that equate for the reputation of God’s word?

perfected forever still means perfected forever Hebrews did not say they may be perfected, it depends on their willingness to be sanctified, can a believer who has gods spirit return to the point he is worse than he was before he was born again? How is that possible?

2 Peter 2
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”




who rejects the work,of sanctification? A believer has free will. They are free to accept sanctification (the pursuit of holiness – Hebrews 12v14), or reject it (2 Peter 2v21). Who can overpower God (those who are being sanctified) ? God will not drag you into heaven kicking and screaming against his your will. Who can break the seal of the spirit (Eph 1) If you want to quote Ephesians 1v13-14 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

  • Then you need to know that believing in Jesus and the Gospel of Salvation includes those included in Ephesians 1v4 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,




Who can save themselves by works of righteousness which we have done (Titus 3).

Lets put in the whole section: Titus 3v4-7 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

See the sanctification there in v5? Just after your quoted section in v4.



Who can overcome Gods promise to all who have taken the bread from heaven promises that they will never hunger or thirst, live forever, never die, be raised on the last day, and has eternal life) what hope do they have to continue to believe if they do not have eternal life (1 John) I can go on and on about eternal security passages.

why would you want to try to save yourself by your work, and reject gods promises? Just asking.


You cannot save yourself by Works. I never stated this. You are saved by Faith. However faith includes obedience and holiness otherwise its not true faith.

All of the rest necessarily includes the process of sanctification above. If you don’t partake in holiness, obedience to the will of the Lord, you will fall short. Hebrews 12v14.

GRACE is a free GIFT FROM GOD WITHOUT ANY STRINGS ATTACHED. You DO NOT DESERVE IT, YOU CANNOT EARN IT, IT WAS GIVEN TO YOU BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF EARTH, FOR THOSE HE FOREKNEW as HE WROTE OUR NAMES IN THE BOOK OF LIFE.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
20,045
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GRACE is a free GIFT FROM GOD WITHOUT ANY STRINGS ATTACHED. You DO NOT DESERVE IT, YOU CANNOT EARN IT, IT WAS GIVEN TO YOU BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF EARTH, FOR THOSE HE FOREKNEW as HE WROTE OUR NAMES IN THE BOOK OF LIFE.
MANY have a very hard time grasping this truth.....