Not By Works

[BillG]

wow,, just wow.. This is scary,

Paul comes to mind, are you so foolish, having begun in the spirit. do you now think you are perfected in the flesh (works)

just one work is too much.

When th people asked Jesus what work they must do Jesus said it was the work of God. We need to understand what that means, and that means it is not our work.

EG

My understanding was that Jesus said "Its the work of God to believe in the one whom he sent"

John 6:29


Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

If have misunderstood your meaning please let me know.

I do think though that even after coming to faith if we build with stuff that ain't good we are still saved.

 

[JIMBO43]

so lets get this straight the workers against here declare that the saved will only lose rewards for not repenting or not obeying will only lose browny points only ..


But the ones who feel there saved and say i believe works will keep us saved have commited the unforgivable sin..
+

This sound fair ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG

My understanding was that Jesus said "Its the work of God to believe in the one whom he sent"

John 6:29


Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

If have misunderstood your meaning please let me know.

I do think though that even after coming to faith if we build with stuff that ain't good we are still saved.

You have it,

It is the work of God, that we have faith to be saved. (remember these people thought we were made right with God by religious works, including obeying the law)

It is all his work. His work in teaching, His work in convicting, His work in the cross. His work in all aspect. We can not boast of one thing, even our faith, because we did not do anything which garners the fruit of our salvation.

 

[dcontroversal]

so lets get this straight the workers against here declare that the saved will only lose rewards for not repenting or not obeying will only lose browny points only ..


But the ones who feel there saved and say i believe works will keep us saved have commited the unforgivable sin..
+

This sound fair ?

it is not about your two points....it is about which gospel you believe initially........there is only one true gospel....not 2, 3 or 10......all gospels that are contrary to the truth will have NO POWER to save......and that is the point JIMMY...cough cough grasshopper hahah

 

[BillG]

so lets get this straight the workers against here declare that the saved will only lose rewards for not repenting or not obeying will only lose browny points only ..


But the ones who feel there saved and say i believe works will keep us saved have commited the unforgivable sin..
+

This sound fair ?

There is only one unforgivable sin.

Rejecting Jesus

 

[PeterJens]

PS. I do do wrong, that's why I still need a savior..

This statement shows the difference between our knowledge of Christ.
We are not saved because we do wrong, we are saved because we commune with
Christ and in walking with Him we do no wrong.

Our walk is the fruit of our oneness with God, not we need to be failures to need God
or to be dependent on Him. Love is about sharing, serving, giving, so to be with God
is the fulfillment of who we are.

But this is missing from the idea we only need God because we fail.
Do we love our wives because they need us or because we love them as they are and
desire to share our lives with them?

 

[dcontroversal]

This statement shows the difference between our knowledge of Christ.
We are not saved because we do wrong, we are saved because we commune with
Christ and in walking with Him we do no wrong.

Our walk is the fruit of our oneness with God, not we need to be failures to need God
or to be dependent on Him. Love is about sharing, serving, giving, so to be with God
is the fulfillment of who we are.

But this is missing from the idea we only need God because we fail.
Do we love our wives because they need us or because we love them as they are and
desire to share our lives with them?

The bolded proves you believe in a works based sinless perfectionist dogma.........even though you will deny this through and through......

WE, WE, WE....OUR walk.......over one mention of Jesus...............tragic

 

[JIMBO43]

There is only one unforgivable sin.

Rejecting Jesus

am i rejecting him for believing repentance leads to salvation ?

 

[Rosemaryx]

Hi all...I have been following this thread for a while now, and now i would like to tell you what happened to me...God put a desire in my heart, He called me to the cross, i fell down in filthy rags and cried my hear out, and through my shame, guilt and horrid sins Jesus shone His light all over me and washed me clean...He lifted me up and took all my hidden sins from under the rug that where piled high and God gently stirred each one in side of me and i had such urges to confess, repent and be reminded that Jesus died for me and has saved me from death....I have been walking with my Lord Jesus for just under two years now, i can hardly recognize my self, it is only looking back that i see how much my Savior has changed me, i could nothing in my own doing to transform my way of life, if it was down to my trying i would fail each time...At first i was doing things in my own strength and fell flat on my face, disappointed again, but then God showed me through His word that i was relying on myself in my own works and that i could never grow if i kept on doing what i thought was right...Yes we must obey God, and i also know that Jesus died so He could give me life over flowing, but not in my works but through the Holy Spirit, His WILL be done not mine, i can do all things through Him who empowers me, i hope i have this right, because this is the way God is showing me, through GRACE He has given me Faith and He gives me more Faith as i grow...Much love to you all...xox...

 

[LoveGodForever]

You mean you thank God for the resistance to your false gospel which MAY open your eyes one day before it is too late?

yeah.....I think that is it.....

Dear DCON and All,

Just because people share the Words of God, does not mean they are telling a false Gospel unless they put an interpretation to the scriptures which is against God's Word. If someone shares scripture with you and you take it as a personal attack to what you believe then maybe you need to look at exactly what you believe and what the scriptures are saying. I believe as my last post states that.....

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (2Tim 3:16) and that..... "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." (Mark 4:4)

We need to be careful. Accusing others of being lost, having a false gospel and not being from God as this was the view of the professed people of God that persecuted and killed Jesus and the prophets and all of God's people through time.

Jesus says, you shall know them by their fruits for a reason. Just because someone says this, or faith without works is not faith (James 2:20) does not mean that people believe in a works based salvation. It is simply the Word of God being shared that is profitable for doctrine because it is a sign of what real salvation achieves..... salvation from sin.

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief." (1Ti 1:15) because it is here that our eyes are opened and we can see and our ears are opened and we can see.Only those that know they are sick will seek the great Physician for healing....

"And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance (Matt 9:11-13)

I am the chiefest of sinners who Christ has come to save. Salvation is from sin not in it (the fruit). If faith does not do this for you, God's Word says it is not faith. These are God's Word and not my own so are profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. To Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood be the glory forever and ever Amen.

God bless you all

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hi all...I have been following this thread for a while now, and now i would like to tell you what happened to me...God put a desire in my heart, He called me to the cross, i fell down in filthy rags and cried my hear out, and through my shame, guilt and horrid sins Jesus shone His light all over me and washed me clean...He lifted me up and took all my hidden sins from under the rug that where piled high and God gently stirred each one in side of me and i had such urges to confess, repent and be reminded that Jesus died for me and has saved me from death....I have been walking with my Lord Jesus for just under two years now, i can hardly recognize my self, it is only looking back that i see how much my Savior has changed me, i could nothing in my own doing to transform my way of life, if it was down to my trying i would fail each time...At first i was doing things in my own strength and fell flat on my face, disappointed again, but then God showed me through His word that i was relying on myself in my own works and that i could never grow if i kept on doing what i thought was right...Yes we must obey God, and i also know that Jesus died so He could give me life over flowing, but not in my works but through the Holy Spirit, His WILL be done not mine, i can do all things through Him who empowers me, i hope i have this right, because this is the way God is showing me, through GRACE He has given me Faith and He gives me more Faith as i grow...Much love to you all...xox...

God bless you Rosemary, you and I share a similar experience. Only God can change the heart as we have complete dependence on the power of God by faith in His Words. His strength is made perfect in our weakness

 

[Grace777x70]

Hi all...I have been following this thread for a while now, and now i would like to tell you what happened to me...God put a desire in my heart, He called me to the cross, i fell down in filthy rags and cried my hear out, and through my shame, guilt and horrid sins Jesus shone His light all over me and washed me clean...He lifted me up and took all my hidden sins from under the rug that where piled high and God gently stirred each one in side of me and i had such urges to confess, repent and be reminded that Jesus died for me and has saved me from death....I have been walking with my Lord Jesus for just under two years now, i can hardly recognize my self, it is only looking back that i see how much my Savior has changed me, i could nothing in my own doing to transform my way of life, if it was down to my trying i would fail each time...At first i was doing things in my own strength and fell flat on my face, disappointed again, but then God showed me through His word that i was relying on myself in my own works and that i could never grow if i kept on doing what i thought was right...Yes we must obey God, and i also know that Jesus died so He could give me life over flowing, but not in my works but through the Holy Spirit, His WILL be done not mine, i can do all things through Him who empowers me, i hope i have this right, because this is the way God is showing me, through GRACE He has given me Faith and He gives me more Faith as i grow...Much love to you all...xox...

Amen...and you can be secure in the knowledge that your heavenly Father who loves you dearly and the Lord Jesus Christ who bought you with His own blood will never forsake you nor leave you - nor will He ever throw His beloved children in hell.

In "security" brings true "maturity". Bless you!

As you have received Christ your Lord which was all by grace through faith - we also walk in Him. Col. 2:6

 

[JIMBO43]

God bless you Rosemary, you and I share a similar experience. Only God can change the heart as we have complete dependence on the power of God by faith in His Words. His strength is made perfect in our weakness

I f God and only God can change the heart then why woul he let it become unchanged..... ? dc does have his point on this one

 

[dcontroversal]

Dear DCON and All,

Just because people share the Words of God, does not mean they are telling a false Gospel unless they put an interpretation to the scriptures which is against God's Word. If someone shares scripture with you and you take it as a personal attack to what you believe then maybe you need to look at exactly what you believe and what the scriptures are saying. I believe as my last post states that.....

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (2Tim 3:16) and that..... "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." (Mark 4:4)

We need to be careful. Accusing others of being lost, having a false gospel and not being from God as this was the view of the professed people of God that persecuted and killed Jesus and the prophets and all of God's people through time.

Jesus says, you shall know them by their fruits for a reason. Just because someone says this, or faith without works is not faith (James 2:20) does not mean that people believe in a works based salvation. It is simply the Word of God being shared that is profitable for doctrine because it is a sign of what real salvation achieves..... salvation from sin.

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief." (1Ti 1:15) because it is here that our eyes are opened and we can see and our ears are opened and we can see.Only those that know they are sick will seek the great Physician for healing....

"And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance (Matt 9:11-13)

I am the chiefest of sinners who Christ has come to save. Salvation is from sin not in it (the fruit). If faith does not do this for you, God's Word says it is not faith. These are God's Word and not my own so are profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. To Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood be the glory forever and ever Amen.

God bless you all

At the end of the day NO man can accurately judge another man's salvation, but we can judge gospels just as Jesus, Paul, Elijah, John etc......It is not wrong or unbiblical to do such......and the contention in this thread has been the following two main points....

Biblical salvation

BY FAITH dia GRACE UNTO the works prepared for us that we have all acknowledged (ALL JESUS)

or

BY FAITH PLUS WORKS (JESUS plus US and OUR LABOR)

MANY of the same players in this thread have consistently made their position known by verbiage and personal views....

this thread as seen sinless perfectionists, those who push works, those who say faith alone............some are pointed, some subtle and some haphazard.......at the end of the day PAUL judged faith plus works to finish or embellish salvation for salvation as false.....it is by this truth that the café blend of faith plus works has been judged.......

I have no doubt you are a nice guy after all you are Aussie.......but we are instructed to defend the faith and the stake is the eternal souls of men and women....this is life and death (eternal) and I know I am blunt, but will not sit idly by and watch the gospel be embellished with something I know is not added to faith for salvation.....

EVEN JAMES does not teach salvation by faith and WORKS, but states that faith that saves will have evidence (show me your faith)

NO ONE has said that works will not be evidence, but lest we forget...the works of the saved are defined by two groupings..

Works of gold, silver and precious stones
or
Works of wood, hay and stubble

It is faith that saves......and any work, all work and all fruit are the result of the saving faith and salvation that one already possesses in Christ......

 

[dcontroversal]

I f God and only God can change the heart then why woul he let it become unchanged..... ? dc does have his point on this one

AMEN JIM....again it is the work of JESUS in US and he NEVER FAILS....HE said..

I WILL finish what I have started and bring it to completion

JESUS is the beginner and finisher of our faith

NOTHING can separate us from the LOVE OF GOD

I am glad you see the point....just dwell on the fact that it is ALL the work of CHRIST in US......exactly why the bible states ALL glory goes to GOD

 

[JIMBO43]

, all work and all fruit are the result of the saving faith and salvation that one already possesses in Christ......

so you accept some works do save you then ? like the works of the messiah or the father or both ?

 

[Rosemaryx]

The bolded proves you believe in a works based sinless perfectionist dogma.........even though you will deny this through and through......

WE, WE, WE....OUR walk.......over one mention of Jesus...............tragic

PeterJens...You say when we walk with Jesus we can do no wrong, how can this be...I do wrong every day, and i walk with my beloved Jesus every day but i still do wrong, is that not why we need our Savior 24/7, if we did not do wrong then we would be sinless like Jesus and that is not possible...xox...

 

[dcontroversal]

so you accept some works do save you then ? like the works of the messiah or the father or both ?

I accept that we are saved by faith alone and the works or fruit are the result of the ROOT/VINE as in JESUS in us......

 

[Grace777x70]

PeterJens...You say when we walk with Jesus we can do no wrong, how can this be...I do wrong every day, and i walk with my beloved Jesus every day but i still do wrong, is that not why we need our Savior 24/7, if we did not do wrong then we would be sinless like Jesus and that is not possible...xox...

Amen...And through it all - His blood continues to cleanse us. We know in part because of this fleshly body we are still in and we manifest in part Christ that is in our new creation which has been created in righteousness and holiness.

We are learning how to live by the life of Another inside of us - joined as one spirit with the Lord forever.

 

[Ariel82]

Actually, I did grade 12 algebra at 7 and my math is good....if you teach you can lose it then SOMETHING must be done to KEEP IT or EARN IT BACK.....regardless Ariel...that is a WORKS based salvation and PAUL covers this in GALATIANS

Not HARDLY...they are eternally tied together, there is but one gospel......not 2 or more

My point is that there are many different reasons why people don't believe or trust in eternal security...

1. they have a hard time trusting that God really loves them that much.
2. They may have a false gospel
3. They may have a false image of who God really is.

Etc

How we address people ago help them understand eternal security should be based on if

1,they have true saving faith in the true gospel and just immature Christian
2. They need to hear the true gospel beacuse they have a false one.