Not By Works

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Jan 12, 2019
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I'm not convinced - To me James is still claiming to keep the law as he majors on it and in Acts he's demanding Paul purify according to the law.
There is a reason why he is known as James the Just. The Jews around him regarded him as one that is very zealous for the Law throughout his life.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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DO YOU BELIEVE JAMES 2:10 was inspired?

WE DO LITERALLY.

AND JAMES 2:14 is what HAPPENS AFTER YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED PAST TENSE.
But why did James said faith is worthless if there is no works? Can that worthless faith save anyone?
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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Which verse from James you got that from?
The whole of the letter, I wouldn't build an understanding or conclusion on one verse alone. It is important to understand what's being said in context.

You said yesterday you believe the book of James is inspired, no?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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The whole of the letter, I wouldn't build an understanding or conclusion on one verse alone. It is important to understand what's being said in context.

You said yesterday you believe the book of James is inspired, no?
So you are reading Paul into James then. Alright then, people here are fond of doing that.

Poor James, he needed us 21st century readers to explain to everyone what he really meant, using Paul's gospel of grace.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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The whole of the letter, I wouldn't build an understanding or conclusion on one verse alone. It is important to understand what's being said in context.

You said yesterday you believe the book of James is inspired, no?
For me, yes the book of James is inspired by the HS. He was writing doctrinal instructions to the Jews to keep during the time of Jacob's trouble, or the Tribulation.

I respect James by not trying to change his intended audience to the Gentiles and not making him say what he didn't mean to say (Galatians 2:9, Acts 21:25))
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
The whole of the letter, I wouldn't build an understanding or conclusion on one verse alone. It is important to understand what's being said in context.

You said yesterday you believe the book of James is inspired, no?
So true.. .. context, purpose and audience, who were believers. :)
 
Jan 12, 2019
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What do you mean by this assumption you've made about me?
I asked you to state which part of James tells a reader that he believed that one can be "justified by Christ's imputed righteousness by grace through faith" apart from works, and you gave a cop-out reply.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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But why did James said faith is worthless if there is no works? Can that worthless faith save anyone?

BECAUSE THE EVIDENCE CAN BE SEEN IF YOU REALLY WERE SAVED, THE MOMENT YOU FIRST GENUINELY BELIEVED,
IN THE AGAPE LOVING DEEDS YOU DO FOR HIM AND OTHERS.

All the years of stirring up CONTRADICTIONS, and I think this is the VERY FIRST TIME YOU HAVE EVEN THOUGHT OF THAT.

Matthew 7:18-20 (KJV)
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


ARE YOUR EYES OPEN NOW ? ? ? Works or DEEDS have NEVER BEEN PART OF SALVATION, However the FRUIT OF GENUINE SALVATION, absolutely WILL PRODUCE, IS AGAPE LOVING DEEDS and WORKS. A FRUIT TREE WILL PRODUCE FRUIT about 2 years after that SEED SPROUTS. But after that YOU WILL SEE HARVEST OF FRUIT that TREE of having BEEN SAVED will PRODUCE. NO AGAPE LOVE, IS PROOF THAT PERSON HAS NEVER BEEN BORN AGAIN.

I have told you this a NUMBER OF TIMES BEFORE, but HOPEFULLY You can NOW UNDERSTAND.

OBEDIENCE IS NOT PART OF SALVATION, WHICH IS A FREE GIFT FROM GOD, HOWEVER, OBEDIENCE IS PART OF THE AGAPE LOVE, THAT HE SOWED INTO OUR HEARTS (HUMAN SPIRIT).
 
Jan 12, 2019
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BECAUSE THE EVIDENCE CAN BE SEEN IF YOU REALLY WERE SAVED, THE MOMENT YOU FIRST GENUINELY BELIEVED,
IN THE AGAPE LOVING DEEDS YOU DO FOR HIM AND OTHERS.

All the years of stirring up CONTRADICTIONS, and I think this is the VERY FIRST TIME YOU HAVE EVEN THOUGHT OF THAT.

Matthew 7:18-20 (KJV)
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


ARE YOUR EYES OPEN NOW ? ? ? Works or DEEDS have NEVER BEEN PART OF SALVATION, However the FRUIT OF GENUINE SALVATION, absolutely WILL PRODUCE, IS AGAPE LOVING DEEDS and WORKS. A FRUIT TREE WILL PRODUCE FRUIT about 2 years after that SEED SPROUTS. But after that YOU WILL SEE HARVEST OF FRUIT that TREE of having BEEN SAVED will PRODUCE. NO AGAPE LOVE, IS PROOF THAT PERSON HAS NEVER BEEN BORN AGAIN.

I have told you this a NUMBER OF TIMES BEFORE, but HOPEFULLY You can NOW UNDERSTAND.

OBEDIENCE IS NOT PART OF SALVATION, WHICH IS A FREE GIFT FROM GOD, HOWEVER, OBEDIENCE IS PART OF THE AGAPE LOVE, THAT HE SOWED INTO OUR HEARTS (HUMAN SPIRIT).
Who needs to see that evidence in the first place?
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Its sad to see how many think Paul and James contradict one another. Theologically inept.
 
Apr 3, 2019
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For me, yes the book of James is inspired by the HS. He was writing doctrinal instructions to the Jews to keep during the time of Jacob's trouble, or the Tribulation.

I respect James by not trying to change his intended audience to the Gentiles and not making him say what he didn't mean to say (Galatians 2:9, Acts 21:25))
Just a minute. On the one hand you have James keeping the law as his gospel and persuading the Jews to follow the law, how then does his letter be for a future generation of Jews when hes applying it to his current generation?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Just a minute. On the one hand you have James keeping the law as his gospel and persuading the Jews to follow the law, how then does his letter be for a future generation of Jews when hes applying it to his current generation?
James, like all the Jews who believed at the time when he wrote that letter which was before the Jerusalem council at Act 15, was expecting the Tribulation to come very soon. Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, prophesied that in Acts 2, using Joel. That was why all the Jews were surrendering their money and other possessions to a common pool in Acts 4:32.

Thus, he was not aware of the mystery grace dispensation that Paul would later revealed in his epistles (Ephesians 3:9), which would interrupt that prophetic timetable.

He wrote his letter based on that understanding, urging the Jews to stand fast in the testing that God will send to them very soon (James 1:2-5).

Of course, we now know that that Tribulation was postponed to an unknown future date. I believed that was why the HS placed his letter, even though it was the very first NT book ever written, after Paul's epistles to the Body of Christ.
 
Apr 3, 2019
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James, like all the Jews who believed at the time when he wrote that letter which was before the Jerusalem council at Act 15, was expecting the Tribulation to come very soon. Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, prophesied that in Acts 2, using Joel. That was why all the Jews were surrendering their money and other possessions to a common pool in Acts 4:32.
This is an assumption and reading into the text the reason for having money/goods in common. You have Peter quoting Joel and misleading those listening to them.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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This is an assumption and reading into the text the reason for having money/goods in common. You have Peter quoting Joel and misleading those listening to them.
Peter quoted Joel about the day of the lord, where the skies will turn red like blood.

if you don’t think that was about the tribulation, we can agree to disagree
 
Apr 3, 2019
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Peter quoted Joel about the day of the lord, where the skies will turn red like blood.

if you don’t think that was about the tribulation, we can agree to disagree
It was about the tribulation, that's why he quoted the full text rather than stopping at the pouring out of the HS. He knew it would be in his generation.