Not By Works

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CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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Doesn't the Bible teach that sin isn't part of the Christian life? How do we determine how much sin in the life of a OSAS believer is acceptable in God's sight?
Sin is not acceptable period; however, God’s grace is enough for his children. No Christian will be perfected until face to face with Jesus.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,165
317
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sinless perfectionism in this life is not possible.

telling yourself you do not sin is a lie. and that is s sin.
The reason why OSAS people believe as such is because they don't make the Biblical distinction between a just man falling seven times and rising up again versus a professing Christian who climbs down into sin and won't leave.

They don't understand the difference between a lost presumptuous believer who covers his habitual sin with a cloak of OSAS, thinking that he will prosper, and one who receives mercy because he confesses and forsakes his sin.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,165
317
83
Sin is not acceptable period; however, God’s grace is enough for his children. No Christian will be perfected until face to face with Jesus.
There's no grace proffered to the presumptuous person who professes Christianity...the one who habitually commits deliberate known sin and silences the Holy Spirit's attempts to "cleanse us from all unrighteousness".
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,165
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Please refrain from being condescending to me. You sir do not own the only key to God nor Love. You either do not "understand" Seal" by the HS or you are to busy "judging" those who believe in the Power of the Blood of Jesus Christ to wash away our sins, past, present, future. You seem to lack understanding of the power of the Holy Spirit to keep what Jesus has bought and paid for unto eternity. Look first at the plank in your own eye before you try and remove the plank in anyone else's eye. The worse "pollution" in this world are those to judge others without looking within themselves. Every single remark you made above about "salvation and its permanency" believing people is just your opinion and not scriptural.
You said I didn't understand salvation, which is pretty condescending of you, right or wrong?

The reason I didn't complain is because I'm not a snowflake.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,165
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How many people do you know who are in the OSAS CROWD HAVE SAID ITS A LICENSE TO SIN?...Put up or shut up with your rhetoric.
That's exactly what OSAS teaches...that salvation gives you a license to sin because sin in no way affects your eternal destiny. The Bible is clear that those who cease to abide in the Vine become branches cast into the fire...that the end is worse than the beginning for those who return to the filth of the world from which they'd previously escaped....that it is impossible for them to repent who fall away after having partaken of the Holy Spirit and the goodness of God.

OSAS is a false idea which allows people to presume they can obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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That's exactly what OSAS teaches...that salvation gives you a license to sin because sin in no way affects your eternal destiny. The Bible is clear that those who cease to abide in the Vine become branches cast into the fire...that the end is worse than the beginning for those who return to the filth of the world from which they'd previously escaped....that it is impossible for them to repent who fall away after having partaken of the Holy Spirit and the goodness of God.

OSAS is a false idea which allows people to presume they can obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.
Sin does effect your eternal,destiny

you can live your whole life and never sin, but stumble in the smallest of all sins and your guilty

when we all stand in front of,gods we will all,stand guilty because all have sinned and fall,short of Gods standard,

you will not be graded on a curve, you will be guilty,

the only thing that will seperate you from the person Next to you will be your response to gods grace

did you do as the tax collector and cry out for Gods mercy in brokenness, or did you pump your chest praising god your not like the sinner?

did you recieve in faith. Or reject in unbelief and works

the onewho had faith is not condemned because he believed in Christ,

the one you lived in unbelief is condemned already because his faith was not in Christ.

the sin issue was nailed to the cross

stop denying and excusing your own sin while judging everyone else’s and recieve the gift of eternal life, while putting aside your believe in conditional life
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,806
4,574
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The reason why OSAS people believe as such is because they don't make the Biblical distinction between a just man falling seven times and rising up again versus a professing Christian who climbs down into sin and won't leave.

They don't understand the difference between a lost presumptuous believer who covers his habitual sin with a cloak of OSAS, thinking that he will prosper, and one who receives mercy because he confesses and forsakes his sin.

2 people struggle with drug addiction . both accept Christ as Lord and Savior.

one never gets high again. the other one goes through years of falling on and off the sober wagon.

who is saved between the two?

both of them if they truly accepted Christ as savior.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,831
1,166
113
There's no grace proffered to the presumptuous person who professes Christianity...the one who habitually commits deliberate known sin and silences the Holy Spirit's attempts to "cleanse us from all unrighteousness".
What is a “ presumptuous person who professes Christianity” as you understand it?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,089
4,119
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2 people struggle with drug addiction . both accept Christ as Lord and Savior.

one never gets high again. the other one goes through years of falling on and off the sober wagon.

who is saved between the two?

both of them if they truly accepted Christ as savior.

Now you have portrayed that hypothetical situation, without KNOWING WHAT THE LORD's WILL IS, OR the Heart of the individual is.

If the one with ongoing falling off the wagon, because he lacked TRUST in the LORD, then I have reason to believe IF HE LACKED TRUST IN THE LORD, then it is possible he settled for something less than TRUE Saving Faith.

On the other hand, MAYBE the LORD has a plan for him to rescue other addicts, and then it would be a benefit for him to experience falling back into the drugs. So that when the LORD truly gave him the victory, he would be better prepared to witness to hardcore Addicts. The BEST WITNESS, is always someone who has walked a mile in the SHOES of a addict, and received deliverance FROM THE LORD, not someone who has NEVER BEEN where the addict is.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,831
1,166
113
Now you have portrayed that hypothetical situation, without KNOWING WHAT THE LORD's WILL IS, OR the Heart of the individual is.

If the one with ongoing falling off the wagon, because he lacked TRUST in the LORD, then I have reason to believe IF HE LACKED TRUST IN THE LORD, then it is possible he settled for something less than TRUE Saving Faith.

On the other hand, MAYBE the LORD has a plan for him to rescue other addicts, and then it would be a benefit for him to experience falling back into the drugs. So that when the LORD truly gave him the victory, he would be better prepared to witness to hardcore Addicts. The BEST WITNESS, is always someone who has walked a mile in the SHOES of a addict, and received deliverance FROM THE LORD, not someone who has NEVER BEEN where the addict is.
In the case of someone not having true saving faith, I would not count that as truly receiving Jesus as Savior. However it may also be that one believes but also doubts. As we walk with the Lord, our faith and trust can grow in him.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,861
3,796
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That's exactly what OSAS teaches...that salvation gives you a license to sin because sin in no way affects your eternal destiny. The Bible is clear that those who cease to abide in the Vine become branches cast into the fire...that the end is worse than the beginning for those who return to the filth of the world from which they'd previously escaped....that it is impossible for them to repent who fall away after having partaken of the Holy Spirit and the goodness of God.

OSAS is a false idea which allows people to presume they can obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.
I disagree with what you are saying. We know Paul addressed using the grace of God as a license to sin in Romans. To preach contrary to that is wrong and abhorrent.

What are your thoughts concerning eternal security.
Is it different from the understanding that you have concerning OSAS?
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,547
2,011
113
North Carolina
You said I didn't understand salvation, which is pretty condescending of you, right or wrong?

The reason I didn't complain is because I'm not a snowflake.

You do not understand eternal salvation if you believe you can lose it. That's a statement. You were condescending in your whole paragraphed response to me. As for being a snowflake, you have no idea how strong I am.
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,165
317
83
Sin does effect your eternal,destiny

you can live your whole life and never sin, but stumble in the smallest of all sins and your guilty

when we all stand in front of,gods we will all,stand guilty because all have sinned and fall,short of Gods standard,

you will not be graded on a curve, you will be guilty,

the only thing that will seperate you from the person Next to you will be your response to gods grace

did you do as the tax collector and cry out for Gods mercy in brokenness, or did you pump your chest praising god your not like the sinner?

did you recieve in faith. Or reject in unbelief and works

the onewho had faith is not condemned because he believed in Christ,

the one you lived in unbelief is condemned already because his faith was not in Christ.

the sin issue was nailed to the cross

stop denying and excusing your own sin while judging everyone else’s and recieve the gift of eternal life, while putting aside your believe in conditional life
How in the world can a righteous person stand guilty before God if He regards him righteous IN THE HERE AND NOW?

Prophecy says the Judgment of the righteous happens BEFORE Jesus comes (Dan 7) and is why JESUS HIMSELF SAYS that “Behold, I come quickly and My reward is WITH ME to give to every man...”

Now, how in the world can He say His rewards for us are “WITH ME”, unless He has first determined what they are already, right or wrong?
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,916
16,574
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How in the world can a righteous person stand guilty before God if He regards him righteous IN THE HERE AND NOW?

Prophecy says the Judgment of the righteous happens BEFORE Jesus comes (Dan 7) and is why JESUS HIMSELF SAYS that “Behold, I come quickly and My reward is WITH ME to give to every man...”

Now, how in the world can He say His rewards for us are “WITH ME”, unless He has first determined what they are already, right or wrong?
I am talking about you as a person co paired to all mankind, apart from the grace of God

ypur claim we can be saved and not get to heaven, that’s your argument, that we can somehow sin ourself out,

I am telling you the fact, that that person who you claims sinned himself out of salvation. Is just as guilty as you, not make re not less

you want to puff yourself up, when you should be humbly bowing on your knees
 
Mar 14, 2011
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In the case of someone not having true saving faith, I would not count that as truly receiving Jesus as Savior. However it may also be that one believes but also doubts. As we walk with the Lord, our faith and trust can grow in him.
As the man said to Jesus, I believe, help me in my unbelief.

Jesus still healed his child because he had faith, maybe it was mustard seed faith, but it was faith enough
 
Feb 28, 2016
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hub and I always love to look at the Good Samaritan = LOVE =
one of the points of the story is that the 'religious guys' do NOT do GOOD WORKS...
but the despised one was the 'righteous one'...
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,165
317
83
2 people struggle with drug addiction . both accept Christ as Lord and Savior.

one never gets high again. the other one goes through years of falling on and off the sober wagon.

who is saved between the two?
both of them if they truly accepted Christ as savior.
You are correct.

Now, let's say after years of loving God with all his heart, soul, and might, and his neighbor as himself, he turns back to a life of drugs and decides presumptuously that God's love will cover his sin which he desires more than pleasing God by obedience to His commandment to "not kill"...will God do that for him, or will he end up in the Lake of Fire?
 

Phoneman-777

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2019
2,165
317
83
What is a “ presumptuous person who professes Christianity” as you understand it?
He is one who professes Christ as his Lord and Savior, yet:
  • commits deliberate, known, habitual sin...
  • tells the Holy Spirit to get lost every time He attempts to lead him out of his deliberate, known, habitual sin...
  • has no intention of ever repenting from his deliberate, known, habitual sin...
  • and then claims his sin is covered by the blood of Jesus...
...is a presumptuous sinner, no matter now much of a saint his vain words claim him to be. King David said, "Keep back Thy servant from presumptuous sins. Let them not have dominion over me. Then shall I be upright, and shall be innocent of the Great Transgression."

The absolute worse thing a person can do is to perpetually claim, "I'm going to go ahead and indulge this sin and God's mercy will grant me forgiveness later." It's the "Great Transgression".
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,806
4,574
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You are correct.

Now, let's say after years of loving God with all his heart, soul, and might, and his neighbor as himself, he turns back to a life of drugs and decides presumptuously that God's love will cover his sin which he desires more than pleasing God by obedience to His commandment to "not kill"...will God do that for him, or will he end up in the Lake of Fire?
then that person was not a true believer.

and, by the way, i am NOT osas.

one can decide to make Christ Lord, and then one day change that decision.

but, that probably means that person was never a true believer.