Not By Works

[Phoneman-777]

Therein lies your error . This is a huge presupposition you have that will colour your entire understanding of the bible. I don't say that lightly. //The ONLY ( Emphasis mine ) change Acts 2 brought was Holy Spirit power to spread the Gospel and edify the church - it had ZERO effect on how we accept, retain, or lose salvation, // This has to to date the saddest comment . Wow !! I'm not sure where to begin with that.

What's sad is how Dispensationalists slice and dice the Scripture to make it say what they want. You guys are exactly who Peter warned us about: unlearned and unstable wresting.

You can't seem to recognize that when it comes to salvation, the only Biblical differences revolved around outward expression: the inward experience has ever been the same.

Noticed how monogamous marriage ceremonies around the world differ from the wonderful to the weird to the downright bizarre, but the inward commitment is still the same? "forsaking all others, till death to us part".

 

[throughfaith]

There IS NO distinction!

In the body of Christ, yes . Which was not happening until Acts 2 .

 

[throughfaith]

What's sad is how Dispensationalists slice and dice the Scripture to make it say what they want. You guys are exactly who Peter warned us about: unlearned and unstable wresting.

You can't seem to recognize that when it comes to salvation, the only Biblical differences revolved around outward expression: the inward experience has ever been the same.

Noticed how monogamous marriage ceremonies around the world differ from the wonderful to the weird to the downright bizarre, but the inward commitment is still the same? "forsaking all others, till death to us part".

Was the Death ,burial and resurrection Just as casual as you described the giving of the Holy spirit in Acts 2 ? Or did things change?

 

[Phoneman-777]

No . The body of christ was not known until its revealed to Paul. Yes I know there's some wacky churches that do teach foot washing as part of salvation. The ' Church ' is not the ' disciples.

So, why do all churches have Communion?

 

[throughfaith]

What's sad is how Dispensationalists slice and dice the Scripture to make it say what they want. You guys are exactly who Peter warned us about: unlearned and unstable wresting.

You can't seem to recognize that when it comes to salvation, the only Biblical differences revolved around outward expression: the inward experience has ever been the same.

Noticed how monogamous marriage ceremonies around the world differ from the wonderful to the weird to the downright bizarre, but the inward commitment is still the same? "forsaking all others, till death to us part".

Peter warned people would not understand Paul's teachings . You seem to not notice Paul's teachings . Your still before the cross . God did not speaking in the four Gospels contrary to certain denominations .

 

[throughfaith]

So, why do all churches have Communion?

Because Paul teaches it in Corinthians. Foot washing is absent.

 

[throughfaith]

Peter warned people would not understand Paul's teachings . You seem to not notice Paul's teachings . Your still before the cross . God did not speaking in the four Gospels contrary to certain denominations .

* not stop

 

[Phoneman-777]

Was the Death ,burial and resurrection Just as casual as you described the giving of the Holy spirit in Acts 2 ? Or did things change?

Please, let's get something straight: The "church" was not established at the time of Paul or at the time of Acts 2....it was spiritually established by faith in the coming "Christ, the Son of the living God", understand?

That means the "church" has existed spiritually since Adam, and is why the Israelites were referred to as "the church in the wilderness" though the promise of Jesus' church was yet unfulfilled.

Your problem is exactly what plagues much of Christendom today: man-centered theology. Everything has to happen according to man's participation, interpretation, perspective. Robert Shuller started popularizing this heresy with his "self-esteem" doctrine. Before him, Ribera with his 70th Week Antichrist. I assure you, Christ's church didn't start with our names on membership rolls - but with the Master Carpenter's invitation since time immemorial.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Peter warned people would not understand Paul's teachings . You seem to not notice Paul's teachings . Your still before the cross . God did not speaking in the four Gospels contrary to certain denominations .

I can't believe I'm in a debate with someone who thinks we have the option to abide in the Vine and backs it up with Dispensationalist nonsense.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Because Paul teaches it in Corinthians. Foot washing is absent.

Oh...so Jesus saying it doens't matter...Paul is the authority. Like I said, man-centered theology.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Because Paul teaches it in Corinthians. Foot washing is absent.

Paul said in Romans 8 that we are to be "in the Spirit" and that anyone that doesn't have the Spirit of Christ is "none of his"....in 2 Corinthians 13 he said we are to be "in the faith" continually lest we be "reprobates"...but we're not supposed to conclude that when Christ said "abide in Me", He was only giving instructions to a few people?

Listen, we have to pray for the spirit to have spiritual discernment so that we can spiritually discern that "abide in Me", "be in the faith", and "be in the Spirit" are all talking about the same exact thing: a surrendered, love relationship with Christ as a husband and wife are to each other.

 

[throughfaith]

Please, let's get something straight: The "church" was not established at the time of Paul or at the time of Acts 2....it was spiritually established by faith in the coming "Christ, the Son of the living God", understand?

That means the "church" has existed spiritually since Adam, and is why the Israelites were referred to as "the church in the wilderness" though the promise of Jesus' church was yet unfulfilled.

Your problem is exactly what plagues much of Christendom today: man-centered theology. Everything has to happen according to man's participation, interpretation, perspective. Robert Shuller started popularizing this heresy with his "self-esteem" doctrine. Before him, Ribera with his 70th Week Antichrist. I assure you, Christ's church didn't start with our names on membership rolls - but with the Master Carpenter's invitation since time immemorial.

Yes I've heard of the ' Church began since Adam doctrine ' . However the scriptures say the ' church ' is the body of Christ which happens only by the Holy Spirit baptising us into the body ( Jew / gentile) Which ONLY began after acts 2 .

 

[throughfaith]

Oh...so Jesus saying it doens't matter...Paul is the authority. Like I said, man-centered theology.

Is it a good idea to center your theology prior to the greatest events in the bible. The death, burial, resurrection, the giving of the Holy Spirit, the start of the body of christ ?

 

[throughfaith]

Paul said in Romans 8 that we are to be "in the Spirit" and that anyone that doesn't have the Spirit of Christ is "none of his"....in 2 Corinthians 13 he said we are to be "in the faith" continually lest we be "reprobates"...but we're not supposed to conclude that when Christ said "abide in Me", He was only giving instructions to a few people?

Listen, we have to pray for the spirit to have spiritual discernment so that we can spiritually discern that "abide in Me", "be in the faith", and "be in the Spirit" are all talking about the same exact thing: a surrendered, love relationship with Christ as a husband and wife are to each other.

Is it a good idea to take instruction not directed at you ? Isn't it also a mistake to take such teachings pick out similar sounding phrases and combine them in a wishy washy manner . Isnt God precise? does he stutter ? Eternal security is only a fact in the church age . What happens due to not rightly dividing is some go for the verses when you could lose salvation and apply them to the Church.

 

[gb9]

Sorry, but were you really expecting a word used as a euphemism for a thing to be actually defined as that thing? Let's not be obtuse. It's a euphemism for being a slave to Christ our Master, right or wrong?

The sinner's will is surrendered to Satan to do his bidding as his slave...then the goodness of God leads him to repentance, at which time the sinner withdraws his surrendered will from Satan and surrenders it to Christ, making him a slave to Christ, according to Paul.

i am not being obtuse.

i am calling you out for mis-representing what John 15 says.


you incorrectly state that " abide" means to " surrender".

in John 15, nowhere does the word surrender appear. nowhere.

so, you have mis-represented what John 15 says.
for the 2nd time, i call on you to correct your mistake.

 

[VCO]

BADDEST CAT ON THE PLANET.

 

[Hevosmies]

I can't believe I'm in a debate with someone who thinks we have the option to abide in the Vine and backs it up with Dispensationalist nonsense.

The dispie gimmick if taken to extremes can be potentially very very dangerous. LUCKILY most dispies are level headed guys. Its just a few cultists here and there. Especially the KJVonly guys tend to fall for this one

 

[CherieR]

BADDEST CAT ON THE PLANET.

Beautiful animal 🥰

 

[star]

Trusting in a false doctrine has deadly consequences. Trust in the Word and what His Word says: that belief which doesn't lead to our total, continuous, unconditional surrender is no different that the belief of devils.

We gotta "abide in the Vine" and only in the Vine; we can't divide our time between that and Satan's Holly tree.

I agree about deadly consequences in following false dogma. I will continue to pray you will realize you cannot in your own human abilities keep yourself saved.

 

[star]

My surgery is over and I am doing well. For those of you who sent up prayers, thank you so much. Will know about treatment in a couple of weeks.