Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Are we still sinners after grace saved us?

I do not believe in sinless perfection at all, after my conversion I am not a sinner saved by grace anymore, am I?

How are we conformed into his image after being saved by grace? what is God's part and man's part in conforming to the image of Christ?

I like to think Gods job is to love us unconditionally, and out job is to take that love and learn to love others, the way god loved us, and the way Jesus gave an example in his walk.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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In the Book of acts, baptism was not done in the name of the father, son and Holy Spirit, but in the name of Jesus Christ only. Some say the other is an interpolation. I don't know for sure, but Baptism means we identify with Christ in his death and resurrection. The Holy Spirit didn't die and rise from the dead for my sin nor did the father, but Jesus did. But every church including mine do baptism in the name of the father, son and Holy Spirit. I don't want to start a division over it, but I am just saying.
I get what you are saying. I don't know fully for sure either.
But as you said baptism means we identify with Christ and what he has done.

I think for me though

John 10:30
I and My Father are one.”

And when Jesus said he had to go back to the Father so the Holy Spirit must come.
So I assume the Holy Spirit was with Father as well (not sure I have explained that well)

No division I think.

Maybe just semantics
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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1 John 5:16

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.


James 2:10

“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”



if even commiting 1 sin....
youre guilty of all

how could any sin a "brother" (not neighbor) commits
not be a sin unto death


honest question

not here to argue

ignore me if im not making sense
I have a question about that too. What sin would it be? Unbelief?
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
I will ignore the every book in Bible statement since that is just out there....no basis in fact.

But if we can explain clearly to you what salvation is (being born again a singular event) and why it cannot be lost according to scripture why is is you cannot explain how it is not gained?

How perfect do I have to be?
How much faith do I have to have?
How much belief will save me?

You keep pointing out the sinner (whatever that means ) and the person who leaves the faith.

I want to know on the positive side how much one has to do to be saved?

If there is no set number then our salvation is eternal and not based on human merit. You see?

If there is a set number then tell us exactly what it is?

Your position of conditional salvation requires an answer for it to be true?

How can God leave us so unsure of where the bough breaks. Remember Jesus has died for all sins past, present and future so tell me the number please?



I agree with who is right MMD.

And you and those who believe in eternal security are wrong all around.
Leaving aside the bible, it's plain common sense.

If I return to a life of sin, how could I still be saved?
A life of sin and the Holy Spirit cannot live together in the same space.
As is evidenced in 1 Corinthians, Romans, Mathew, James, Peter, EVERY BOOK IN THE BIBLE.

Eternal Security has come about only in the past few hundred years. Christianity has been around for over 2,000 years.

Does this tell you nothing? You suppose ALL THE THEOLOGIANS before Calvin WERE WRONG?

This idea of not our salvation may comfort you, but it's INCORRECT.

§check out all the IF's in the N.T. the next time you go through it. There are PLENTY. This is a conditionl word, as you well know.

How do you get passed that?
Because you've gone from one extreme to the other.

When the RCC is wrong, it's wrong.
In this case IT AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF PROTESTANT CHURCHES, are correct. Salvation CAN be lost.
it's good that Christians know this so that they think twice before abandoning God.

If they listen to YOU, they abandon God and lose their salvation since salvation is only IN FAITH.
What if they die? You have their soul on YOUR conscience.
 
May 12, 2017
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I like to think Gods job is to love us unconditionally, and out job is to take that love and learn to love others, the way god loved us, and the way Jesus gave an example in his walk.
We also have the obligation to renew or minds to the Word of God [Romans 12]
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
peace, all good bro...next time I will just exit stage left...:cool:


ariel, DC and my other friends, you have my permission to hold me accountable to this, I agree with Megiddo.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Reported. One again your name calling is for the birds peter

I opened the quote and it took me to an article.

So I must ask, why did you not also post all the times Grace777 said he did not agree with that part of the article. Your being deceptive peter.

That is sin..
I have to say, truth does not seem to matter to you.
So my friend, it does not matter. I can only make the points I make,
if the reader dismisses them, it is always there choice.

God bless you.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Are we still sinners after grace saved us?

I do not believe in sinless perfection at all, after my conversion I am not a sinner saved by grace anymore, am I?

How are we conformed into his image after being saved by grace? what is God's part and man's part in conforming to the image of Christ?
Identity is a very misunderstood truth in the body of Christ. We aren't sinners saved by grace after conversion. We are Spirit. Saints in the kingdom, made worthy by the Son.

A new genesis. Says it in the greek. Needs taught.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Bill,
I think he is referring to Acts 19.4.
That may be the case but we need to look at verse 5 as well

Acts 19:4-5


Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

I was trying to distinguish the point made was baptised in the Holy Spirit and then saying repentance baptism.

It confused me and seemed a bit muddied
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
We also have the obligation to renew or minds to the Word of God [Romans 12]
Yes, and to get ourself in fellowship to have others help us, God never intended lone wolf christians, even Paul made sure he had people around him, that's three points, let's find others, this would be a good thread!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I have to say, truth does not seem to matter to you.
So my friend, it does not matter. I can only make the points I make,
if the reader dismisses them, it is always there choice.

God bless you.

As usual, every point you try to make when you think can be pointed back to you.

It was not me who withheld all the posts where Grace777 said he believ s God convicts of sin, it was you. That's dishonest.
 
May 12, 2017
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That may be the case but we need to look at verse 5 as well

Acts 19:4-5


Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

I was trying to distinguish the point made was baptised in the Holy Spirit and then saying repentance baptism.

It confused me and seemed a bit muddied
Sorry Bill, I was not tracking fully and now understand what you were after, my bad...sorry
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
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Amen! Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).
What does living a life in Christ; thus, living life as Jesus lived it, have anything to do with the passage you render as proof, no one can live in the Liberty, God, thru Jesus Christ on a Cross, affords us to be able to live letting patience finish His workmanship in us ?

In this passage: (1 John 1:8-10) John describes and condemns two further mistaken ways of thought.

1). There is the man who says that he has no sin. That may mean either of two things.

It may describe the man who says that he has no responsibility for his sin. It is easy enough to find defenses behind which to seek to hide. We may blame our sins on our heredity, on our environment, on our temperament, on our physical condition. We may claim that someone misled us and that we were led astray. It is characteristic of us all that we seek to shuffle out of the responsibility for sin.

Or it may describe the man who claims that he can sin and take no harm.

It is John's insistence that, when a man has sinned, excuses and self-justifications are irrelevant. The only thing which will meet the situation is humble and penitent confession to God and, if need be, to men.

Then John says a surprising thing. He says that we can depend on God in his righteousness to forgive us if we confess our sins. On the face of it, we might well have thought that God in his righteousness would have been much more likely to condemn than to forgive. But the point is that God, because he is righteous, never breaks his word; and Scripture is full of the promise of mercy to the man who comes to him with a regretful heart. God has promised that he will never despise the contrite heart and he will not break his word. If we humbly and sorrowfully confess our sins, he will forgive. The very fact of making excuses and seeking for self-justification debars us from forgiveness, because it debars us from the action of feeling and showing sorrow and regret for having done wrong; the very fact of humble confession opens the door to forgiveness, for the man with the penitent heart can claim the promises of God.


2). There is the man who says that he has not in fact sinned. That attitude is not nearly so uncommon as we might think. Any number of people do not really believe that they have sinned and rather resent being called sinners. Their mistake is that they think of sin as the kind of thing which gets into the newspapers. They forget that sin is hamartia (in the Greek) which literally means a missing of the target. To fail to be as good a father, mother, wife, husband, son, daughter, workman, person as we might be is to sin; and that includes us all.


In any event the man who says that he has not sinned is in effect doing nothing less than calling God a liar, for God has said that all have sinned.


So John condemns the man who claims that he is so far advanced in knowledge and in the spiritual life that sin for him has ceased to matter; he condemns the man who evades the responsibility for his sin or who holds that sin has no effect upon him; he condemns the man who has never even realized that he is a sinner.

The essence of the Christian life is first to realize our sin; but then also to go to God for that forgiveness which can wipe out the past and for that cleansing which can make the future new. Of course we have the power to cast out sins, what in the world are you talking about? Or should I say, what world are you talking about? It is this world Our God, whom is the source of moral authority, is talking about!
 
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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Johns baptism was of the Jews way. They baptized many times. Some sects on a daily basis.

John was preaching against hypocrisy. Was a turn to God message of repentance. And they did believe they were born again. I don't quite understand how, but is what I read.

So the new way is Spirit baptism.
 
May 12, 2017
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Yes, and to get ourself in fellowship to have others help us, God never intended lone wolf christians, even Paul made sure he had people around him, that's three points, let's find others, this would be a good thread!
true....every Paul needs a Barnabas, Titus and Timothy....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I find it a bit mean that you should keep telling everyone that peter jens is the only person you have banned here or blocked . ?????

Youve been telling everyone for months now..


Can i ask you a question ,,,,,,,,, is it fair that newcomers to the site should get of to a bad start with peter because of your disagreement with him ?
I think everyone on here can see his posts and mine and determine for themselves and I could easily ask the same thing concerning all the negative things that both of you have said concerning me, EG, Ariel etc......

SO....what is good for the goose is good for the gander.....!
 
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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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It's interesting how virtually everyone who reads this passage in the church today can't see the part that says "who do not walk according to the flesh". Why is that? Is it because we have been trained to skip right over it by this 'just believe' doctrine over taking the church?
What's interesting is how people confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture (do not walk according to the flesh - Romans 8:1) with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture (believes in Him - John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31 etc..). Those "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" is descriptive language of those who are in Christ. ​Believers walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit not in order to get in Christ, but because they are in Christ.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
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What's interesting is how people confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture (do not walk according to the flesh - Romans 8:1) with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture (believes in Him - John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31 etc..). Those "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" is descriptive language of those who are in Christ. ​Believers walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit not in order to get in Christ, but because they are in Christ.
....and therefore can walk as Christ lived. Scripture is not deceptive, it is just not understood by some; those who do not look at it thru righteousness.....Hence, "according to the spirit."
 
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Feb 24, 2015
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As usual, every point you try to make when you think can be pointed back to you.
It was not me who withheld all the posts where Grace777 said he believ s God convicts of sin, it was you. That's dishonest.
Thank you for your observations, and your complements, very helpful.

Not sure how I can withhold something that is not in my power to deny access to.
If people what to see what g7 said it is up to them.

Now my point was a simple one. One cannot make a statement about everybody
and what they think unless you are God.

It appears you believe you can, so you must be a god in your own eyes. I have a
more limited view, and am spotting an inflated ego at work and a poor attempt to
ridicule someones position. I think your position manages to ridicule itself quite well.

And to prove your point, as you appear to want to defend it, you would have so show
everyones thoughts who have been on cc. By the way that is actually impossible.

So it makes me laugh you want to defend such a position. But it is your choice to express
whatever you want, and I hope you realise it is mine to point out its absurdity. The bigger
joke is you want to defend it, because to admit my point seems beyond you.

The sky is blue.

I really like that phrase, it works so well in these situations :cool: