Not By Works

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May 12, 2017
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thats it exactly pluck put the eye and cut off the hand teach us how serious and dangerous sin actually is. that part has never changed its been death from the start. thats the main issue with the false grace religion. it nullifies the life found in the gospel, and the power of the Holy spirit to give us the strength to actually walk in the right things, and repent of the evil we all have walked in, in the past.

its really following the false teachers that spread the gog rather than believing and following Jesus Christ. even if one reads and believes that a person needs to follow pauls words only as so many do, it still requires repentance from sin and walking in the things of God instead. it requires us to give our lives to God rather than saying grace and going on living for what we want. many of the ideas that come from the gog sort of lay the blame for what we do, on Gods failure to provide us with the tools and abilities to walk and live the Life.

some would say " its just christ living through me all his work" or things such as that, so then what about when a person lies, cheats, scams, commits adultery or holds grudges? is it then still " christ living in us?" the Bible is a lesson book, meant to Learn, and apply to Life its not a mystical belief its Just the Plain truth from God. Jesus was never unclear about sin nor were His apostles nor the prophets before, nor the Law of moses, Nor was God the Father in the Garden. its our choice to Live, or die. Hes given all He is going to give already in Jesus. through Him we have an offer of eternal Life. gotta learn and believe and actually do the things He teaches us to do, through the spirit in the Word.
actually nope it does not....it teaches how serious and dangerous it is to tempt someone to SIN.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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there's lots of different reasons that each of us give 'likes' at different times -
the reasons are varied; even if we don't agree in everything with each other,
sometimes it's just because we have seen some one take a step in the right direction,
or we see that they have a new understanding that they didn't have before, or maybe
suddenly we see them humble themselves or show Love where we didn't see it before or
many be we see a new strength in them as they share what they have learned from another....

I don't study the reasons, but only hope it is because a listener/reader has found an
appreciation for understanding even a part of something someone has posted from their heart,
and is kind enough to show it...

seldom will true 'unity' be found here, but Jesus' Love in us should always be manifested,
even if it means to sometimes keep silent when not in agreement...
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Must be nice to make a complete doctrine out of one verse alone...

The verses you use here to admonish and declare is all about about sinless perfection and loss of salvation is flat 100% wrong....

You are telling us that Matt 18.8-9 is about crucifying the flesh and controlling sin, right?

You should ask forgiveness of everyone here for such an egregious spirit of error in interpretation of this passage.

Lets look at the whole thought and include all the verses and teach you what it really means, instead of you blathering on about and taking liberty with scripture.

Matt 18.1-6

At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” [SUP]2 [/SUP]And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, [SUP]3 [/SUP]and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; [SUP]6 [/SUP]but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Ok so our first indication of what Jesus is saying here is found in Vs 6- He is not talking about sinners or disciples here, so he is not talking about following him, or crucifying the flesh...He is talking about the consequence of those that tempt baby believers to stumble or SIN

Matt 18.7-9

[SUP]7 [/SUP]“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!

[SUP]8 [/SUP]“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.


These verses show us again he is not talking about sinners or disciples, he is again telling us the consequence of those who lay down stumbling blocks[temptations] to baby believers. He is telling us those that lay down things that tempt baby believers to SIN are in a very bad place and if you are caught tempting baby believers to SIN, it would be better for you to cut, pluck and throw, then go to hell for tempting baby believers to SIN/stumble

This is metaphoric and comparative language, not command language..Jesus used command language when he was telling them something they needed to do like repent , confess or follow.

Matt 18.10-14
[SUP]10 [/SUP]“See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven. [SUP]11 [/SUP][For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.] [SUP]12 [/SUP]“What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? [SUP]13 [/SUP]If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. [SUP]14 [/SUP]So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.


The thought and lesson of Matt 18.1-14 comes to a close with these verses, it is clearly not an admonition for sinners to repent, disciples to follow me and crucify the flesh, or even salvation so what is it?

The rest of chapter 18 deals with discipline, prayer and forgiveness...So what was Matt 18.1-4 all about then...The answer is found in Matt 19.

Jesus once again is tested by the pharisees and he schools them all over again...

Jesus was telling his disciples and us in Matt 18.1-14, that religion and those in the name of religion are damned, since they continually cause a new follower, believer of Jesus to stumble, fall, SIN.

There is no suggestion in Vs 1-14 that this has anything to do with crucifying the flesh or keeping Sin under control.
This is about as good an interpretation of these passages as I've seen. Nice job.

There are tons of Christians, some that claim to be mature, that really get this passage wrong.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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there's lots of different reasons that each of us give 'likes' at different times -
the reasons are varied; even if we don't agree in everything with each other,
sometimes it's just because we have seen some one take a step in the right direction,
or we see that they have a new understanding that they didn't have before, or maybe
suddenly we see them humble themselves or show Love where we didn't see it before or
may be we see a new strength in them as they share what they have learned from another....

I don't study the reasons, but only hope it is because a listener/reader has found an
appreciation for understanding even a part of something someone has posted from their heart,
and is kind enough to show it...

seldom will true 'unity' be found here, but Jesus' Love in us should always be manifested,
even if it means to sometimes keep silent when not in agreement...
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Odd phrase. So Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

So John is saying, if we sin, and do not confess our sins they are not forgiven and
we are not cleansed. But this sentiment is wrong if sins are all forgiven after the cross.

He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Col 1:13-14

God has delivered us from darkness, where there is not forgiveness of sins, to
the Kingdom of Christ, where there is forgiveness of sins.

So again, this would be irrelevant if both the kingdom of darkness and the kingdom
of light both had sins forgiven.

And we only have forgiveness of sins, if we walk in the Spirit, ie righteously, else
we are defiling the very promise we are under.
I suppose it depends on how one looks the passage in John.

there is stuff out there stating it was written to the Gnostics given the opening verses.
There is stuff out there saying if we don't confess all sin then it will not be forgiven.
There is stuff out there saying that we don't need to confess it in order to be forgiven.
There is stuff out there that says confession is the same as repentance.

In fact the words for repentance and confession are different.

I look at this way.

To confess is to agree before God, I didn't get that right, I messed up here.
Please help me here, it's not something I want in my life, which to me is repentance.
I thank him that I am forgiven and have been cleansed from my sin.
I then ask for protection from condemnation as Satan will surely try to codemn me.

Notice though that I'm saying I need help please help me.
To me that's a sign of a genuine believer.
If one didn't give 2 hoots they would confess it, even if they did God knows the heart and there no such thing as a free meal ticket when it comes to God.

The whole first chapter of 1 John 1 can be confusing.

1 John 1:5-10
Fellowship with Him and One Another
This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

I find it difficult how a genuine believer can or believe we have no sin or will not sin.
If that's the case Jesus did not die for them.
Jesus died for sinners and intercedes on our behalf when we sin.

Just my simple thoughts.
 
May 12, 2017
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This is about as good an interpretation of these passages as I've seen. Nice job.

There are tons of Christians, some that claim to be mature, that really get this passage wrong.
Thanks Penn---You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PennEd again.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
113
there's lots of different reasons that each of us give 'likes' at different times -
the reasons are varied; even if we don't agree in everything with each other,
sometimes it's just because we have seen some one take a step in the right direction,
or we see that they have a new understanding that they didn't have before, or maybe
suddenly we see them humble themselves or show Love where we didn't see it before or
may be we see a new strength in them as they share what they have learned from another....

I don't study the reasons, but only hope it is because a listener/reader has found an
appreciation for understanding even a part of something someone has posted from their heart,
and is kind enough to show it...

seldom will true 'unity' be found here, but Jesus' Love in us should always be manifested,
even if it means to sometimes keep silent when not in agreement...
Good post.

Its interesting I think.
You talk about unity, if memory serves me there wasn't much unity amongst the disciples when Jesus walked with them.
"Who do you love the most, will he never die?
We see disunity from Acts through. Disagreements.
Paul goes at Peter.
Even Peter said some of the stuff Paul preaches is hard to understand.

But even Peter says

2 Peter 3:16-18
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

Some things are hard to understand and we may not get this side of eternity.

One thing we should all make sure off though is not to detract from the Gospel of Jesus.

Whoever believes in me will not perish and I will not lose any of you who the Father has given me.
If we truly believe then we want to be like Jesus.
If we wander off the path, walk in a period of sin he will seek us out and correct us, chasten us.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Ariel,

Gal 5.24 says-[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires

What does this mean to you?
1 John 2:16 ►
For everything in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--comes not from the Father but from the world.

Galatians 5
19Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21envy,d drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who doe such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

*****

I believe it means that we feed the good fruit of walking with the spirit and we cut out the flesh like pride, contention and envy.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Jim, it is not wrong to be gripped by different emotions, they are just part of the human
experience. The problem comes when we take them seriously and do something because
of them.

We are not defined by what we feel, that is us reacting, we are defined by the actions
that flow from us, which is our response, chosen and deliberate. Too few have learnt the
difference between the two.
peter im well known here ive been a member for 5 6 years maybe.. ive seen it all

ive seen it all done the the battles of law love peace and order... i am what ya call armoured buddy God bless... Quickfire
 
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Ariel82

Guest
We aren't defined by our emotions or our actions...we are defined by who God says we are.

We will be judged by our emotions, thoughts and actions and either be found good and pure or in need of chasten and correction. God gives us a choice...judge ourselves and correct our behavior or have Him check us.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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You've been here for 5 or 6 years? Then why does your join date say March 2016?



peter im well known here ive been a member for 5 6 years maybe.. ive seen it all

ive seen it all done the the battles of law love peace and order... i am what ya call armoured buddy God bless... Quickfire
 
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Ariel82

Guest
0706171624.jpg

Saw this in the train station and wanted to share. Lol.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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This is about as good an interpretation of these passages as I've seen. Nice job.

There are tons of Christians, some that claim to be mature, that really get this passage wrong.
[SUP]and there is children trying to be mature, yet are still children.

[/SUP] [SUP]3 [/SUP]and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. .14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!"16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,1Romans 8: Life in the Spiritand said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.Matt 18.

21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.Galatians 3."8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspringRomans 9: God's Sovereign Choice
 
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Jan 27, 2013
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[SUP]and there is children trying to be mature, yet are still children.
[/SUP] [SUP]3 [/SUP]and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Matt 18[SUP]
3 [/SUP]and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. .14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!"16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,1Romans 8: Life in the Spiritand said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.Matt 18.

21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.Galatians 3."8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspringRomans 9: God's Sovereign Choice





Originally Posted by PennEd

This is about as good an interpretation of these passages as I've seen. Nice job.

There are tons of Christians, some that claim to be mature, that really get this passage wrong.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Matt 18.1-6

At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” [SUP]2[/SUP]And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, [SUP]3[/SUP]and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me;[SUP]6 [/SUP]but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
 
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Jan 27, 2013
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it would not post the verse i made my point from .....................................................................................................etc sorry it did, i spaced it out more etc
 
Jan 27, 2013
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"8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspringRomans 9: God's Sovereign Choice
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
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A works based LIE......SIN does not send ONE PERSON to HELL......UNBELIEF in the finished work of CHRIST is what sends one to hell.....you better wise up man.......your false gospel falls way short of meeting God's requirement.........!
Amen bro. People gotta take a stand for the FINISHED work of Jesus.

Its funny how when Jesus gets tough (cut out your eye, cut off your hand etc) everyone wants to get all "its metaphorical" yet when he says you're going to hell, that's actual. (People more concerned with their flesh than their spirit I guess)