Once saved always saved? Or is salvation conditional on believing and following God's Word?

[eternally-gratefull]

mheh

makes me wanna have another shower

I have not read those things in other threads so while I did not agree with everything he wrote...but at times thought he was kinda off...I did not know how bad off the ideas were

oh don't worry about the slander

if it is slander, we know where it comes from.

this dude has pretty much slandered his way through this thread

I never buy smoothies who smile all the time anyway

you know, as Christians we are called 'living stones' which I think is a beautiful metaphor...we are supposed to rub off the rough edges and fit together

but then we have the sword of the Spirit so we can wield that to extract truth...truth whether bad or good

it's a shame when someone uses that sword by misappropriating the words that are truth and life and uses it to hack off body parts that belong and are still learning to fit in...which is God's work by His Spirit

Yeah agree. Took me awhile to see this

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I guess I should say thank you, And you were correct in your assumptions.
Here is another liar, who preaches law. Yet continues to bear false witness, then laughs like is is something funny. I guess peter loves his sin? Its funny one of his buddies asked anothe rmember if he enjoyed his sin, Peter here gives us an example of what it looks like to enjoy your sin.. Maybe mr gardner needs to ask peter why he enjoys his sin??
For everyone else who reads this slanderous remark let me set the record straight
EG believe TRUE faith works.
So if truth faith works, then the only type of faith there is, is working faith.
But peter thinks I believe otherwise. And for those of you who have followed our converstaions since this person was peter jens. He will call me a liar here too. Failing to admit once again he is a sinner, and blame shifting.
Why is WHY I have him on ignore..

Working faith is not allowed folks, EG has spoken

you are saying this IF you are saying acts of obedience must be added to faith or grace.

Not sure why you can not see this.

Notice there is a difference here

EG believe TRUE faith works.
Working faith is not allowed

Faith for me is simple, if Jesus cannot make us into saints, walking the path it is pointless.
Unbelief means faith with no fruit is eternal life or passive faith, which I reject and so does scripture

20 I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds
Acts 26

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I have the distinct impression you have take the opportunity to strike at people in the 'Not by Works' thread that you argue there with on a regular basis
I don't post in that thread but I sometimes take a look at it
pretty cheap thing to do IMO
apart from that, you are putting words in people's mouths
no I don't have you confused with someone else this time
I'm not going to address these jabs you have made, they are obvious and don't help you out one bit

It is funny, I avoid making fun of people until it get absurd.
Some believe they are the God police and tell people what to do and not do.

So I pocked fun at the assertiveness of a member. And now you expand this too large.
But maybe that is partly your style, I do not know.

God bless you, wherever you are

 

[NotmebutHim]

Over time, I've gotten kinda leery of new member introductions. Because we end up with threads such as this about half the time.

But I have to be a gracious "host" and give everyone a shot..............

 

[Grandpa]

You are not just suffering from Gross conceptual Error you are also doctrinally delusional.

Jesus is the word of God therefore believing and obeying the word of God will lead one to salvation.

That's not necessarily true. As I showed with scripture. But I'll show you some more.
Romans 9:31-32
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

There are different ways to interpret scripture to cause someone to THINK they are obeying the "word" of God when they really aren't.

You cannot preach the gospel of salvation without opening up one's Bible and going through the scriptures.

It's too late to test that one out. But I assume that the Gentiles that were first given the Holy Spirit didn't read the Hebrew Scriptures first.

You cannot deny Mark 16:15-20 and Acts 2:38 for example and think you have Jesus separate from scripture.

I assume that before it was written down in scripture there were people doing it.

It is scripture (the word of God) that convicts a person to repent and then to believe in who Jesus is …

It is a persons own carnal mind that causes them to try and work carnally towards things that are spiritual.

It is the Holy Spirit that shows the difference between the two. Not scripture.

 

[Grandpa]

I do not trust this sentiment from you, unfortunately.
To hold to the gnostic view of spirituality, and then speak about bearing fruit for me is absurd.
In a belief system with a perfect mature spirit, and a lost body or flesh with carnal passions, there
is no progress or resolution.

If one can honestly declare we are one whole being, built and refined by Christ as we walk with
Him, then amen, but this has not been your declared position.
Some talk about lying, deception, delusion, but here is something that does not add up.
I am willing to understand your explanation, but maybe it is beyond your abilities.

I do wonder if the position as the blazing light for the defence of faith, is actually something else
and just confusing a life mission with what truth and love actually are. Is it earning salvation by
fighting the fight, while believing grabbing the golden ticket matters, nothing can change who
does and who doesn't, except these evil enemy are stealing it away, except they cannot.

So much contradiction and confusion, but maybe jetting around the world, pottering in ones
mansions, you got to have a hobby?

Well its really simple to show all of your silliness.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Do you understand what that part in bold means? Can you explain it?

In the light of the above scripture can you explain the implications of this one as well?;

John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


It doesn't matter that some people THINK they are saved when they might not be. That only confuses the issues.

What is TRUTH is that Once a person is Saved they can't be un-saved. There is no such thing as losing salvation. There is no such thing as un-knowing Christ and what He has done and is doing for us and in us.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This post is confused and confusing.

Thanks Dan, You guys cannot see a good work done in the Holy Spirit is an eternal gift of Christ to another individual.

Christian good works are not an eternal gift of Christ. They are simply works of righteousness done by the power of the Spirit.

You do not see we are perfected, pure, holy Gods Kingdom on earth to the praise of His glory. Everything God is doing in us, is wonderful and brings glory to His name.

What makes you think that Dan does not believe this? We are perfect in God's eyes with the perfection of Christ, but in reality we are not sinlessly perfect.

No wonder you devalue His work in your hearts and His experience of the Holy Spirit working in power and authority to bring about His purposes.

There is no Christian who devalues God's work in their hearts and lives. So why make such a remark which is false?

I don't understand why people are at odds with each other about the fundamentals of the Christian faith. We are saved by grace, kept by the power of God, and appointed unto good works.

 

[CharliRenee]

Beautiful testimony sister...
God never left you , He wooed you back to Him and steered you on the straight and narrow , it was His desire that called you to repentance , I love the way you cling to our LORD , even if sometimes we are hanging onto His hem , we are His , and He is ours...
God bless you sister...xox...

Thank you dear Sister. You and your faith are a blessing to many. I too appreciate how you cling to our Lord.

I am so thankful for His patience with me. His loves capacity is so very awe-inspiring to say the least.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Well its really simple to show all of your silliness.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Do you understand what that part in bold means? Can you explain it?

In the light of the above scripture can you explain the implications of this one as well?;

John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


It doesn't matter that some people THINK they are saved when they might not be. That only confuses the issues.

What is TRUTH is that Once a person is Saved they can't be un-saved. There is no such thing as losing salvation. There is no such thing as un-knowing Christ and what He has done and is doing for us and in us.

Hi Grandpa,

What you miss is some fundamentals.
The sheep of Christ listen to his voice, they know Him and follow Him.

So many claim to know Jesus yet openly disobey and refuse to either open their hearts to Him,
or repent of sin or resolve major issues in their life yet claim to be eternally saved.

They have not yet given their lives to Christ and started walking, they are outside still arguing
the cost and saying it is too much. So plucking them out of His hand has not even begun.

And a believer can walk away, and many do. It is strange how some claim this is not the case.
But then it does not matter. Often those who argue about this have hard hearts and love still
has to break in beyond their shell of theology and security.

 

[CharliRenee]

well I was too young for that but I know of it through someone trying to save me even though I was already a believer

I pointed to the wrong picture...as a kid...and voila...I was going to hell.

man I was confused for days! thankfully God straightened me out...in my heart...by His Spirit

I understand you so much better now



I was a kid and didn't really understand this picture and I pointed to it

if a person is a believer, God will have the proper place in their heart even if it takes years

I wonder how many self righteously pointed to the 'right' picture and God saw them pass up an opportunity to actually get it right?

when I look back, I can see my 'interests' being directed by Christ whether I knew it or not

you guys are just so mixed up and so legalistic and judgemental

you are making little yous and not followers of Christ

This is so spot on!!! I can so relate growing up with that self centered faith verses the Christ centered faith.

Yes very helpful spot on images with your words. Thank you.

I do not oppose the civil or kind approach, believe that is God's will for us. I do struggle, however, when it is used passive aggressively. I then question the sincerity. I also do not appreciate it because it gives kindness a distasteful aroma, when it should come from a sincere heart of love. The love He has given us.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

This post is confused and confusing.

Christian good works are not an eternal gift of Christ. They are simply works of righteousness done by the power of the Spirit.

What makes you think that Dan does not believe this? We are perfect in God's eyes with the perfection of Christ, but in reality we are not sinlessly perfect.

There is no Christian who devalues God's work in their hearts and lives. So why make such a remark which is false?

I don't understand why people are at odds with each other about the fundamentals of the Christian faith. We are saved by grace, kept by the power of God, and appointed unto good works.

Hi Nehemiah,

Interesting points. I see good works done by Christ as gems, things with eternal significance.
I see them as the most important thing in history, God working in the world. You can regard them
how you like this is my personal perspective.

Dan expresses his view of good works done by believers constantly as menstrual rags. You cannot
get clearer than that, so I know from reading his posts.

You say no christian devalues the work of Christ in peoples lives.
I have been told Christs work in me is not love by contempt, that I am leading people to hell, that
this is works salvation, deceitful, hypocrisy and worse. So if this is not devaluing Gods work in
me, I do not know what is. You maybe to 100% right, no christian devalues Gods work.
God bless you

 

[FollowHisSteps]

This is so spot on!!! I can so relate growing up with that self centered faith verses the Christ centered faith.

Yes very helpful spot on images with your words. Thank you.

I do not oppose the civil or kind approach, believe that is God's will for us. I do struggle, however, when it is used passive aggressively. I then question the sincerity. I also do not appreciate it because it gives kindness a distasteful aroma, when it should come from a sincere heart of love. The love He has given us.

I get slightly confused here.
The 4 spiritual laws are a simple campus crusade way of presenting the gospel.

Now if someone rejects this as the gospel, and says changing your mind and believing in Jesus with passive
faith is the gospel things have gone sideways for me.

This is like night and day. For someone who does street evangelism, open airs this is like bread and butter faith.
Gnosticism, an eternal perfect spirit that instantly comes when you come to faith, that can never be lost,
with a sinful flesh that will never be purified or holy is not conservative faith, more like "Free Grace" theology.

And put simply I will defend repentance and faith till I die.

So loyalties here are not openly declared or seen, along with wild accusations of who knows Christ and who
does not. But whatever, Praise the Lord, Amen

 

[CharliRenee]

I get slightly confused here.
The 4 spiritual laws are a simple campus crusade way of presenting the gospel.

Now if someone rejects this as the gospel, and says changing your mind and believing in Jesus with passive
faith is the gospel things have gone sideways for me.

This is like night and day. For someone who does street evangelism, open airs this is like bread and butter faith.
Gnosticism, an eternal perfect spirit that instantly comes when you come to faith, that can never be lost,
with a sinful flesh that will never be purified or holy is not conservative faith, more like "Free Grace" theology.

And put simply I will defend repentance and faith till I die.

So loyalties here are not openly declared or seen, along with wild accusations of who knows Christ and who
does not. But whatever, Praise the Lord, Amen

I believe in repentance too. Don't we all, all who are His?

It isn't loyalty to ppl that spured my comment, it is loyalty to my Lord, in His work. I am so grateful. You see, I can be as self centered and self absorbed as anyone, probably more. I am so thankful for His humbling. I need it. I have learned to kiss the waves that bring me to the rock of ages...Spurgeon. I just find His work in me, what He created for us to be, belongs to Him.

I am simple and to be honest don't think I understand what you are pointing to. Why does giving Him all the Glory, why does leaning in and on His promises rather than on our abilities oppose obedience? I believe pointing to Him in all ways does just that. I believe the labor comes when we think we have it all figured out.

Obedience starts with the Great I am, believing and trusting in His power and authority alone. I agree He wants our Love and devotion. He died for it and continues to drive us home.

I am going to walk away now because I think we are repeating ourselves to the point of wasting time. I do not have bad feelings for you. I am not sure I understand what your point is. It seems like so much of this is semantics. If I wanted to please the masses, I'd be much less civil, haha...jk.

Why should we esteem man when the breath of them is in their nostrils. < not sure which verse...job...?

Regardless what anyone thinks of me, My Lord will always be Jesus/Yeshua.

I pray we all seek and find His revealing,

 

[Waggles]

whoever stays lost never were his sheep to begin with, as evidenced by the fact they do not know his voice.

complete nonsense and as well
OSAS make outrageous judgements that those that depart from the faith were never really saved, etc.
You are either saved or you are not saved, especially given the slothful laxity for "being saved" in the BDF.
Believers do fail. Believers do return to the world. Believers can suffer a great loss and become bitter.
Not all sheep remain faithful and in the flock.
A saved person can and many do walk away from their faith.
God may be true and faithful, but humans are not so.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Notice there is a difference here

EG believe TRUE faith works.
Working faith is not allowed

Faith for me is simple, if Jesus cannot make us into saints, walking the path it is pointless.
Unbelief means faith with no fruit is eternal life or passive faith, which I reject and so does scripture

20 I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds
Acts 26

we are already saints in Christ...how many letters does Paul address with the greeting...TO THE SAINTS

do you know? 'we are already saints. sounds like you might have some Catholicism in your background

Jesus has already accomplished all that He ever intended to with the exception of the end of the age...I doubt you understand the term 'end of the age' but for those who do that is what is left for Him to do. and even that is actually accomplished as well

the path may be pointless to an individual who understands salvation as a series of works they must accomplush, but to those who understand their righteousness is in Christ, it is a completely different outlook

if possible, I think you are loosing your capacity to make sense even in the sense in which you think you make it

 

[7seasrekeyed]

It is funny, I avoid making fun of people until it get absurd.
Some believe they are the God police and tell people what to do and not do.

So I pocked fun at the assertiveness of a member. And now you expand this too large.
But maybe that is partly your style, I do not know.

God bless you, wherever you are

poked fun?

tell that to your grandmother

nothing is funny about telling people they have to work for salvation as you do

some posts back you said you were judging whether or not people were worshipping God properly...according to you

God police much?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

This is so spot on!!! I can so relate growing up with that self centered faith verses the Christ centered faith.

Yes very helpful spot on images with your words. Thank you.

I do not oppose the civil or kind approach, believe that is God's will for us. I do struggle, however, when it is used passive aggressively. I then question the sincerity. I also do not appreciate it because it gives kindness a distasteful aroma, when it should come from a sincere heart of love. The love He has given us.

IMO, what is being done by the person in question, is sowing seeds of doubt

attacking the faith of those who trust in Christ

substituting man's religion with a coating of smiling while actually biting

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Keep your hands on the plow boy, and your feet in the row.
if you ever trip that mule is gonna drag ya lest you let go;
and be doomed. Doomed
in the middle of a dirty old field of doomed.
The drinking bucket is down yonder at the end of the row;
Dirty old crow pecking on the bones
sweaty tired hands couldn't hold on.
Sun beating down on the back of your neck
The ringing in your ears is probably a stroke.

I decided I would write a works based salvation song.
It's still in the works. Lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

complete nonsense and as well
OSAS make outrageous judgements that those that depart from the faith were never really saved, etc.
You are either saved or you are not saved, especially given the slothful laxity for "being saved" in the BDF.
Believers do fail. Believers do return to the world. Believers can suffer a great loss and become bitter.
Not all sheep remain faithful and in the flock.
A saved person can and many do walk away from their faith.
God may be true and faithful, but humans are not so.

So you ignore the scripture which says otherwise.

I can not help you if you ignore the word. If jesus said it, believe him!

And johnsaid those who depart where never of us (saved). So if you do not listen to jesus or john?

Yeah, we can’t help you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

we are already saints in Christ...how many letters does Paul address with the greeting...TO THE SAINTS

do you know? 'we are already saints. sounds like you might have some Catholicism in your background

Jesus has already accomplished all that He ever intended to with the exception of the end of the age...I doubt you understand the term 'end of the age' but for those who do that is what is left for Him to do. and even that is actually accomplished as well

the path may be pointless to an individual who understands salvation as a series of works they must accomplush, but to those who understand their righteousness is in Christ, it is a completely different outlook

if possible, I think you are loosing your capacity to make sense even in the sense in which you think you make it

True faith works

False faith (mere belief) does not work. Or if it does. It is self righteous works.

So I believe working faith is automatic. To say it is allowed or not makes no sense. It is natural.

He sticks on a point.. I can not help him understand if he refuses to listen, non of us can..