Orthodox Christianity

[pwrnJC]

SoliDeo....

When your journey here on earth has ended...GOD will not ask you "DID you honor the woman I chose to give birth to my SON, JESUS?" GOD will say "I was just looking into the Lamb's book of LIFE and was wondering if YOUR name was in it, covered by My Son's blood.....here..let ME have a closer look...!"

You can light all the candles in the world, bow, cross your chest, keep statues of annointed saints around your house, a rosarie close to you and more...but guess what....they will perish along with the stained glass windows, the confessional booths, and dogma surrounding your 'orthodoxy'. What matters is your personal relationship to JESUS CHRIST, what HE has done for you..how YOU have shared HIM with others, and the praises that go up to HIM so HIS blessings can come down. Kissing the Pope's ring is NOT a pre-requisite to a bonafied mansion in heaven.

 

[crossnote]

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
(Eph 1:1)


Gee, in nearly all of Paul's Epistles he calls the believers 'saints' even the troublesome Corinthian believers. Sure seem to be a lot of saints tromping around

 

[Ahwatukee]

No.
People, meaning the Church assigns that designation to certain individuals who have lived exemplary lives In Christ.

Greetings Cassian,

First of all, men do not assign saint-hood to other men. Two, by claiming that saint-hood is designated to those who
live exemplary lives would be to infer good works equals saint-hood. When a person receives Christ, they become
a saint from that moment on through faith and not by works. In regards to prayer, the following was given by Jesus:

"This, then, is how you should pray:
“ ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation,but deliver us from the evil one."

"But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (Matt.6:6)

"We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you" (Col.1:3)

"I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better." (Eph.1:17)

"Since you call on a Father who judges each person's work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear."
(1 Pet.1:17)

"Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." (Matt.26:39)

Jesus prayed to the Father only and every example is the apostles praying to God the Father. You will not find any examples like this praying to dead saints nor to angels nor to Mary. Praying to anyone else but the Father in the name of his Son is following after the traditions of men. In this case, it is following after Roman Catholic dogma. In Revelation, that the prayers of the great tribulation saints are being offered up by the four living beings and the twenty four elders does not constitute praying to saints who have died and now in heaven. We can pray to God the Father in the name of our Lord for our living brothers and sisters here and they for us, but we are not pray to those saints who have passed on for intercession, for they cannot speak to God on our behalf. That's Jesus office.

All prayer should be directed to God the Father in the name of his Son, Yeshua Hamashiach.
My prayer for you is that you would come away from the traditions of men.

Blessings in Christ

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Only for people incapable of amazement this is disturbing.

Do you not realize that she bore in herself the One whose essence no one can touch? That she breast fed the One that fed manna to his creatures? That she took care of the One that looks after His creatures?

How could you not bless her and be happy for her?

Luke 11:27-29

Mary was never once referred to as divine by Christ, or any of His apostles, and was treated no differently than any of His followers, and she herself rejoiced in the spirit of her savior.

Why should we consider her to be of divinity? The bible clearly makes her out to be another one of us, the only difference is she was given the role to give birth to Him.

 

[crossnote]

Well, she is blessed. I can't imagine a girl giving 'birth' to God in the flesh, but it happened.

 

[jamie26301]

Yes, they are.

On CC there is a forum called "prayer request". In E.O. we also requests prayers from saints, angels, saint Mary. Because we believe they are the triumphant "part" of the church, while we are the fighting "part" of the same church. We are still struggling with sin, while they are no longer.

I do not pray to saints, but this is one thing about the Roman Catholic and EO churches that I find intriguing, and quite comforting. The idea is not praying in the sense of "worship" but praying in the sense of communicating. Because they are not dead, but alive. Our Father is not the God of the dead. They are alive, and reasoning suggests that they could hear us, and suffer/rejoice with us as members of the same Body.

I take it a step farther and would say that praying to saints needn't be limited to canonized saints - perhaps a devout, but deceased grandmother. When a loved one dies, it's a normal part of grieving to communicate with the deceased for a sense of closure, like at the graveyard or looking upon the casket - and may resurfaced periodically for the rest of their lives. "I wish you were still here - I don't know what to do. What would you do?" No one calls this praying to loved ones, but as I understand it that is what is meant by praying to saints, only in a more disciplined or regular fashion. These churches seem - to me - to be far more in touch with the believers of the past, because they see them as living beings that can still be fellowshipped with in spirit (prayer), not a bunch of people that died a long time ago up in heaven somewhere. The idea of the Body of Christ spans across the centuries, and I really don't find much respect or love for the saints of old in Protestant churches. It's a pity.

I'm not addressing the way in which this prayer is gone about, but let's keep in mind that the same words, or practices, do not have the same meaning or implications across the whole Church. I have never heard a Catholic accuse a Protestant of worshiping the preacher because they kneel before him praying at an altar call... yet, because a Catholic knells, it is labeled worship. There is seldom honest effort to understand one perspective or the other.

I understand the accusation of a Catholic that Protestants worship a book (what God said, and man's rendering of those words, rather than God Himself). But I know better than to consider this a blanket criticism of Protestantism - not all Protestants are Sola Scritpura, and even the ones who are don't all worship the Bible.

 

[Cassian]

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Scripture tells us who are the saints: everyone who has received Jesus Christ by faith is a saint.

First, your text does not even address the topic of saints. Also, that all believers are called saints is NOT what the topic is about. Although that might be your confusion and misunderstanding.

 

[Magenta]

The dead know nothing. Look it up, it is in your Bible.

 

[pwrnJC]

Replying to Paul calling fellow CHRISTIANS as 'SAINTS" is cool. However, Paul never conducted a service where he or any of his fellow CHRIST followers decided to CANONIZE someone. They never quarreled over who and who would NOT be a SAINT. Who or who would NOT be listed as someone to dump your prayers upon and call in case of certain situations. JESUS CHRIST never advocated that His followers are to designate certain qualities of certain CHRISTIANS and pay homage to them. In short, JESUS never said "THOU must honor my MOM and pay respect to my APOSTLES to gain heaven".

 

[crossnote]

I understand the accusation of a Catholic that Protestants worship a book (what God said, and man's rendering of those words, rather than God Himself). But I know better than to consider this a blanket criticism of Protestantism - not all Protestants are Sola Scritpura, and even the ones who are don't all worship the Bible.

All true Protestants hold to Sola Scriptura meaning that Scripture is our final authority.
Those Words of Scripture reveal God to us and are confirmed by the Holy Spirit in the born again believer.

 

[Cassian]

All one has to do is read John 1:14 to figure that out without all the ecumenical gymnastics.

And yet there are many sola scripturists, and denominations that do not hold to that theological fact. Some use the term but have an altogether different concept of the Incarnation. Even the RCC has changed the meaning.

 

[Magenta]

First, your text does not even address the topic of saints. Also, that all believers are called saints is NOT what the topic is about. Although that might be your confusion and misunderstanding.

Of course it does, but I can hardly be surprised by your lack of understanding.

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

 

[Cassian]

SoliDeo....

When your journey here on earth has ended...GOD will not ask you "DID you honor the woman I chose to give birth to my SON, JESUS?" GOD will say "I was just looking into the Lamb's book of LIFE and was wondering if YOUR name was in it, covered by My Son's blood.....here..let ME have a closer look...!"

You can light all the candles in the world, bow, cross your chest, keep statues of annointed saints around your house, a rosarie close to you and more...but guess what....they will perish along with the stained glass windows, the confessional booths, and dogma surrounding your 'orthodoxy'. What matters is your personal relationship to JESUS CHRIST, what HE has done for you..how YOU have shared HIM with others, and the praises that go up to HIM so HIS blessings can come down. Kissing the Pope's ring is NOT a pre-requisite to a bonafied mansion in heaven.

The question was regarding Orthodoxy and not the RCC.

 

[Cassian]

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
(Eph 1:1)


Gee, in nearly all of Paul's Epistles he calls the believers 'saints' even the troublesome Corinthian believers. Sure seem to be a lot of saints tromping around

Typical misunderstanding or just ignorance. The question was regarding canonized saints. There is a difference.

 

[Magenta]

I don't know if you noticed but just using the name "Christian" does not make one a Christian.

Calling oneself "Orthodox" does not make one Christian, either.

 

[jamie26301]

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
Scripture tells us who are the saints: everyone who has received Jesus Christ by faith is a saint.

I agree that only God sees the heart, and ultimately only God can judge one righteous or not. But wouldn't you agree that honoring people who have been visibly faithful to God is a bonding of believers, even if some of them sleep? Does a believer's influence just fall off the face of the earth because they pass on?

 

[Magenta]

I agree that only God sees the heart, and ultimately only God can judge one righteous or not. But wouldn't you agree that honoring people who have been visibly faithful to God is a bonding of believers, even if some of them sleep? Does a believer's influence just fall off the face of the earth because they pass on?

I like your avatar

Since we are supposedly discussing Scripture (even though one person bats it around like a badminton birdie, one minute essentially saying it is not good enough to use as an authority and the next citing it as an authority), I wonder that you can ask such a question since the Bible was, after all, written by saints who no longer walk this world. I have posted many Scriptures to support my view. Did you see any of them? Does that not mean anything to you?

 

[jamie26301]

The dead know nothing. Look it up, it is in your Bible.

Yes, quite aware, and the context relates not to the actual topic of the Body of Christ.

 

[crossnote]

Typical misunderstanding or just ignorance. The question was regarding canonized saints. There is a difference.

Canonized saints is simply a made up classification contributing to the works righteousness system of both Rome and the East. Not Scriptural.

 

[jamie26301]

I like your avatar

Thank you.

Since we are supposedly discussing Scripture (even though one person bats it around like a badminton birdie, one minute essentially saying it is not good enough to use as an authority and the next citing it as an authority),

That's unavoidable, as the Bible can't address every detail or even every controversy in life - with direct instruction, that is.

I wonder that you can ask such a question since the Bible was, after all, written by saints who no longer walk this world. I have posted many Scriptures to support my view. Did you see any of them? Does that not mean anything to you?

The context I quoted from you was dealing with honoring saints. Do you meditate on the actual lives of the writers of Scripture? If you knew them better, had more sources on them, would you honor them? (By honor, I simply mean to show recognition as someone of who has left a godly mark on the world. A poem about them, a mention of their name while leading a prayer, etc Putting extra effort into saying "I did not personally know this believer, but as my sister/brother in Christ I admire this or that")