Paper Money and Fiat Currency is the Mark of the Beast

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Oct 24, 2019
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I don't think you would have to pay all that much.

And it doesn't have to be a pawnbroker. You could use a struggling college student or starving artist to act as your middle person.

my point is that it would be very possible to buy and sell today without using Fiat money. The prophecy is that it will not be possible to buy and sell, not that it will be just kind of difficult.
If that is your reason to not believe, so be it. I have heard many excuses and reasons not to believe. You are not the first and will not be the last to reject this truth.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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@gaviriachristian
Did you want to respond to this part of the post?

Which brings me to my next question. I have seen on this thread that according to your interpretation of the law of Moses, Fiat money is wrong. Have you discussed that in detail on this thread or somewhere?

Of course there is a second step. Even if the law says that Christians shouldn't use Fiat money, I am not convinced that Christians are to follow the law. I believe we were talking about that on a previous thread. Did you want to respond to my most recent reply to you there?
https://christianchat.com/threads/d...-to-keep-the-law-of-moses.185392/post-4059723
 
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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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...it is indeed currently very difficult to buy or sell without paper money and fiat currency. How do I know this? Because I live outside the financial system. There are no merchants here in Medellin that I've consulted with that will accept payments in metals, not even to purchase a water bottle if I wanted to drink
I think that's in part because you are not only trying to live without the Fiat money, but trying to do it cheaply.

If you lived close to me, I would happily act as your little man for, say, a 30% cut.

Have you consulted with some of the poor people around you? Possibly a teenager hanging out on a street corner? The deal is that you give them some gold, they sell it, and then you have a kind of account with them so that they can purchase your water bottles or whatever.
 
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I think that's in part because you are not only trying to live without the Fiat money, but trying to do it cheaply.

If you lived close to me, I would happily act as your little man for, say, a 30% cut.

Have you consulted with some of the poor people around you? Possibly a teenager hanging out on a street corner? The deal is that you give them some gold, they sell it, and then you have a kind of account with them so that they can purchase your water bottles or whatever.
That is not permitted, to instruct someone to sell the gold for paper money. If they do so on their own then that is on them, but if I instruct someone to sell the gold for paper money, then that is on me. A person must choose to receive gold as payment for goods and services, and what they decide to do with the gold is on them.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I discuss why paper money is evil in my bible study, which also identifies the beasts of Daniel and Revelation and how they relate to the mark of the beast, http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2018/12/0...the-mark-of-the-beast-and-the-meaning-of-666/ .
Okay, so I'm working my way through the link you posted.

This quote
"...which are central banks in each kingdom on earth, which through many complex layers of banks all trace back to one bank, the Vatican Bank, in Vatican City, in Rome..."

Do you have a reference for that? do you mean they are all connected to the Vatican bank? Or that they are all controlled by the Vatican Bank?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
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I discuss why paper money is evil in my bible study, which also identifies the beasts of Daniel and Revelation and how they relate to the mark of the beast, http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2018/12/0...the-mark-of-the-beast-and-the-meaning-of-666/ .
"...Paper money has no intrinsic value, because it is merely just paper, and its value is what the banks say its value is..."

I disagree. Central banks and governments can affect the value of a currency by changing the amount of available and interest rates for loans, but they cannot actually determine its value. Its value is determined by whatever a person will trade for it, imo.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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If that is your reason to not believe, so be it. I have heard many excuses and reasons not to believe. You are not the first and will not be the last to reject this truth.
I think it's a very good reason to reject that particular interpretation of that passage of scripture.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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1,051
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That is not permitted, to instruct someone to sell the gold for paper money. If they do so on their own then that is on them, but if I instruct someone to sell the gold for paper money, then that is on me. A person must choose to receive gold as payment for goods and services, and what they decide to do with the gold is on them.
Is this something stated in the scriptures?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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I discuss why paper money is evil in my bible study, which also identifies the beasts of Daniel and Revelation and how they relate to the mark of the beast, http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2018/12/0...the-mark-of-the-beast-and-the-meaning-of-666/ .
I haven't read through your entire page, but do you discuss why Bitcoin is also evil, in your view?

I did a search of your site and neither Bitcoin or cryptocurrency produced any results. Do you talk about these things on the site?
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
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I disagree. I believe I have done much more than find a small exception to the general truth of no buying and selling. I believe I have pointed to a way that a person could buy anything sold at a local Walmart, it would just cost more.

I'll flesh out what I'm thinking a bit more.

Pawn shop owners tend to be wheeler-dealers. Suppose I go into a pawn shop and say that I have these sincerely held religious beliefs that prevent me from using the Fiat money system, but I have these gold coins. He has a puzzled look on his face, but he's listening because he sees the gold coins.

First I will give him a 1 oz coin worth about $1,500 and my Walmart shopping list. The stuff on my shopping list comes to about $1,000.

All he has to do is go buy the stuff at Walmart or even order it online. When he has the items, I will come pick them up.

It should be an easy sell to the pawn shop owner because he is making $500 with no risk and little effort.

The reason why Walmart itself doesn't just accept the gold coin and the reason for the look of puzzlement on the pawn shop owners face is that virtually no one has the religious belief that Fiat money is sinful.

Which brings me to my next question. I have seen on this thread that according to your interpretation of the law of Moses, Fiat money is wrong. Have you discussed that in detail on this thread or somewhere?

Of course there is a second step. Even if the law says that Christians shouldn't use Fiat money, I am not convinced that Christians are to follow the law. I believe we were talking about that on a previous thread. Did you want to respond to my most recent reply to you there?

I appreciate your Walmart analogy. Sort of lines up with my feelings on another thread. All your doing is bending the system not living outside of it.

I agree that the usurious nature of the system can be lived outside of but we are in the world not of. Not out of the world. We still have to live in it...our abiding is another matter.
 
Oct 24, 2019
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Okay, so I'm working my way through the link you posted.

This quote
"...which are central banks in each kingdom on earth, which through many complex layers of banks all trace back to one bank, the Vatican Bank, in Vatican City, in Rome..."

Do you have a reference for that? do you mean they are all connected to the Vatican bank? Or that they are all controlled by the Vatican Bank?
Both, hence the reason the prostitute is seated on the beast. She maneuvers the beast like an equestrian maneuvers a horse.
 
Oct 24, 2019
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"...Paper money has no intrinsic value, because it is merely just paper, and its value is what the banks say its value is..."

I disagree. Central banks and governments can affect the value of a currency by changing the amount of available and interest rates for loans, but they cannot actually determine its value. Its value is determined by whatever a person will trade for it, imo.
Indeed there are many factors that affect how the value of paper money is determined, and each nation exerts some level of autonomy in determining the value of their own fiat currencies, but through many complex layers and one thing depending on the other the value of fiat currency globally is ultimately determined by the one place that all central banks trace back to, the Vatican Bank, which is then ruled by one man, the Roman pope. You only need to understand the vision to then understand what is happening behind the scenes without knowing all the technical details of what is actually happening behind the scenes.
 
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I see that you posted many references for payments made in weights of silver.

Is there something in the law of Moses where the use of paper money is commanded against?
What makes paper money evil is not that its paper, for if I gave you a ream of paper in exchange for two bags of wheat I've essentially used paper to buy your wheat, but the perceived imaginary value that paper money and fiat currency is given, which is then devalued over time, to steal. It is a false measure.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Both, hence the reason the prostitute is seated on the beast. She maneuvers the beast like an equestrian maneuvers a horse.
do you have a reference that the central banks of most countries of the world are controlled by the Vatican?
 
Oct 24, 2019
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I think it's a very good reason to reject that particular interpretation of that passage of scripture.
It is not. But soon enough we will see who was right. So you hang on to your paper money and fiat currency, which you think is not evil, and I will continue not possessing it, and we will see who Yeshuah will accept, and who he will reject.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
Indeed there are many factors that affect how the value of paper money is determined, and each nation exerts some level of autonomy in determining the value of their own fiat currencies, but through many complex layers and one thing depending on the other the value of fiat currency globally is ultimately determined by the one place that all central banks trace back to, the Vatican Bank, which is then ruled by one man, the Roman pope. You only need to understand the vision to then understand what is happening behind the scenes without knowing all the technical details of what is actually happening behind the scenes.
On the surface it sounds like a conspiracy theory, so at least some details would be great!
 
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Is this something stated in the scriptures?
Does it need to be? If you are instructing someone to do evil it is accounted as sin against you also even if someone else is doing it. Besides that, I have a list of guidelines for people in the financial system to follow, which are good.
 
Oct 24, 2019
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I haven't read through your entire page, but do you discuss why Bitcoin is also evil, in your view?

I did a search of your site and neither Bitcoin or cryptocurrency produced any results. Do you talk about these things on the site?
If mere paper money is evil why would you not think bitcoin is evil. Have you still no understanding what true money is?
 
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