Paper Money and Fiat Currency is the Mark of the Beast

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Oct 24, 2019
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I suppose a wealthy person there could prepay for 7 years worth of electricity. Wouldn't that mean that the person would then have an account at the electric company which would be represented in a dollar amount? Or whatever fiat currency is used in Colombia?

No, I'm not yet convinced that the Fiat money system is the mark of the beast. There's this verse which sounds to me like no one can buy or sell outside of the mark of the beast system. But people are buying and selling today outside of the Fiat money system, I think.
Revelation 13: 17. and that no one would be able to buy or to sell, unless he has that mark, the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Trying take gold to any merchant in the United States and see who will accept payment in gold. Maybe you'll find one, but very unlikely. The prophecy has been fulfilled through paper money and fiat currency.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Trying take gold to any merchant in the United States and see who will accept payment in gold. Maybe you'll find one, but very unlikely. The prophecy has been fulfilled through paper money and fiat currency.
I think there are pawn shops in my area that will accept gold as payment for things they sell, like guns.

Do you consider Bitcoin to be part of the Fiat money system? I believe there are things that can be bought currently with Bitcoin.
 
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I think there are pawn shops in my area that will accept gold as payment for things they sell, like guns.

Do you consider Bitcoin to be part of the Fiat money system? I believe there are things that can be bought currently with Bitcoin.
Yes, it's a worse form of fiat currency.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Yes, it's a worse form of fiat currency.
Okay, so no Bitcoin.

But the pawn shop situation? I don't go into pawn shops very often because they kind of give me the creeps.

but through a long chain of events I did happen to be in a pawn shop a few months ago. I believe the guy there had some swords for sale, maybe samurai swords?

Jesus said if you don't have a sword, go buy one.

I suspect that if one offered the pawn shop owner a sufficient amount of easily identifiable gold, like krugerrands or whatever is used today, he would happily hand over a sword.
 
Oct 24, 2019
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Okay, so no Bitcoin.

But the pawn shop situation? I don't go into pawn shops very often because they kind of give me the creeps.

but through a long chain of events I did happen to be in a pawn shop a few months ago. I believe the guy there had some swords for sale, maybe samurai swords?

Jesus said if you don't have a sword, go buy one.

I suspect that if one offered the pawn shop owner a sufficient amount of easily identifiable gold, like krugerrands or whatever is used today, he would happily hand over a sword.
Well it's a pawn shop, of course they'll trade whatever you got.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Well it's a pawn shop, of course they'll trade whatever you got.
Exactly! And if I hand the pawn shop owner some gold coins and she hands me back something of value, that sounds to me like I have bought something.

But the prophecy is no one can buy or sell outside the mark of the beast system. So, it looks to me like that prophecy isn't happening now.
 
Oct 24, 2019
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Exactly! And if I hand the pawn shop owner some gold coins and she hands me back something of value, that sounds to me like I have bought something.

But the prophecy is no one can buy or sell outside the mark of the beast system. So, it looks to me like that prophecy isn't happening now.
There will always be ways around the system, hence the reason I am outside the system. That doesn't negate the truth that it is nearly impossible to buy or sell without paper money and fiat currency. What you have done is look for an isolated example to negate a broader truth that it is very difficult to buy or sell without paper money and fiat currency. It could be compared to a prisoner not getting food for 30 days in a prison, but was only given 1 snack in those 30 days. So, which statement is true, "they are not feeding him" or "they are feeding him"? The truth would be that they are not feeding him, and just because they gave him 1 snack in those 30 days does not negate that broader truth that they are not feeding him. That is you, finding isolated examples to negate the broader truth that it is nearly impossible to buy or sell without paper money and fiat currency.
 

3angelsmsg

Junior Member
Mar 1, 2018
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The bible study interpreting the beasts of Revelation and the beasts of Daniel and how they relate to the mark of the beast can be found here http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2018/12/0...the-mark-of-the-beast-and-the-meaning-of-666/ . I am telling you the truth people, listen, and do not harden your hearts. You only bring condemnation upon yourselves for doing so.
Many christian focus on the mark of the beast. Have you consider first what is the mark or seal of God. Once you understand the genuine thereafter you can easily distinguish between the genuine and the mark of satan?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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All symbols in the book of Revelation are based on the Tanakh. If you know the Tanakh you know everything. Therefore 666 relates to this passage in the Tanakh,

Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was 666 talents of gold,
1 Kings 10:14

Why gold you might ask? Well, my diagram will explain it, and what the true mark of the beast is.

paper money has been around hundreds years, the bible say mark of the beast only around for 7 years
 
Oct 24, 2019
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paper money has been around hundreds years, the bible say mark of the beast only around for 7 years
That is not true. The 7 year tribulation is based on a lie that the 70th week of Daniel was not fulfilled, but it was, the Messiah was killed in the middle of it and so established his covenant with many.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Because unlike him my timeline is based on the understanding that 7,000 years have been appointed for the existence of this, with the last 1,000 years appointed as a millennial shabbath rest for this earth, which corresponds to the 1,000 year rulership of the Messiah mentioned in Revelation, which is the very reason God created in six 6 days, and set apart the 7th day as a shabbath, to foreshadow these times he established for the earth at a grander scale, hence "one day is as a thousand years and a thousand as one day with the Lord". There is a profound deep truth expressed in that simple statement. And because I have this understanding is why I have been able to accurately derive a timeline precisely from Adam until now, which fits with actual historical dates for each segment of time. Are there not two expressions that say, "the proof is in the pudding" and "the numbers don't lie"? Well, my numbers are the proof in the pudding and they do not lie. See for yourself and see that what I am saying is true, http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2018/11/0...-yb-jubilees-and-the-12901335-days-of-daniel/
I would agree numbers don't lie. But God does not reveal the timing of the last day or the number of persons that will be delivered as a sign. He will come when no expects and in the twinkling of the eye we will all as sons of God be changed.

I am not familiar with a millennial shabbath rest established for the earth at a grander scale, hence "one day is as a thousand years and a thousand as one day with the Lord, as a mathematical formula. the word as in that phase signals a parable is in view. The signified language of God

The thousand years like other usages of the word thousand in parables is as if one day was a thousand years. Not one day is a thousand years . Its a metaphor to represent a unknown amount as to whatever in in view. . Not according to a literal time period. We walk by faith the unseen . Jesus said it a evil generation that looks to a sign walking by sight. No sign as to the last day or number of those elected to salvation is given.

And the word sabbath is a non time sensitive word. It simply mean rest.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,789
834
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There will always be ways around the system, hence the reason I am outside the system. That doesn't negate the truth that it is nearly impossible to buy or sell without paper money and fiat currency. What you have done is look for an isolated example to negate a broader truth that it is very difficult to buy or sell without paper money and fiat currency. It could be compared to a prisoner not getting food for 30 days in a prison, but was only given 1 snack in those 30 days. So, which statement is true, "they are not feeding him" or "they are feeding him"? The truth would be that they are not feeding him, and just because they gave him 1 snack in those 30 days does not negate that broader truth that they are not feeding him. That is you, finding isolated examples to negate the broader truth that it is nearly impossible to buy or sell without paper money and fiat currency.
I disagree. I believe I have done much more than find a small exception to the general truth of no buying and selling. I believe I have pointed to a way that a person could buy anything sold at a local Walmart, it would just cost more.

I'll flesh out what I'm thinking a bit more.

Pawn shop owners tend to be wheeler-dealers. Suppose I go into a pawn shop and say that I have these sincerely held religious beliefs that prevent me from using the Fiat money system, but I have these gold coins. He has a puzzled look on his face, but he's listening because he sees the gold coins.

First I will give him a 1 oz coin worth about $1,500 and my Walmart shopping list. The stuff on my shopping list comes to about $1,000.

All he has to do is go buy the stuff at Walmart or even order it online. When he has the items, I will come pick them up.

It should be an easy sell to the pawn shop owner because he is making $500 with no risk and little effort.

The reason why Walmart itself doesn't just accept the gold coin and the reason for the look of puzzlement on the pawn shop owners face is that virtually no one has the religious belief that Fiat money is sinful.

Which brings me to my next question. I have seen on this thread that according to your interpretation of the law of Moses, Fiat money is wrong. Have you discussed that in detail on this thread or somewhere?

Of course there is a second step. Even if the law says that Christians shouldn't use Fiat money, I am not convinced that Christians are to follow the law. I believe we were talking about that on a previous thread. Did you want to respond to my most recent reply to you there?
https://christianchat.com/threads/d...-to-keep-the-law-of-moses.185392/post-4059723
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,710
1,042
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Many christian focus on the mark of the beast. Have you consider first what is the mark or seal of God. Once you understand the genuine thereafter you can easily distinguish between the genuine and the mark of satan?
Yes, it is not a literal mark . Jesus said no signs are given as a outward confirming mark. No confirming sign gifts .

He informs us is a evil generation, natural unconverted man that does seek proof by what the eyes see. All believers die not receiving the promise of their new incorruptible bodies. Hebrew 11:39

1John 2 warns of the many antichrists that were present when the new testament was written. We are given a excellent example of that kind of work in progress with Peter. He was forgiven of his blasphemy. . forbidding Jesus from finishing the work of the Gospel And Peter did not go out from us . Christ could not deny he had paid the wage of Peters sin in whole even though Peter denied Jesus in un-belief (no faith) .

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men .Mathew16:22-23

Another way of saying. You do not walk by faith the unseen eternal things of God but rather by sight after that seen the temporal flesh of men.

The key we are to savor the eternal things of God not seen not the temporal things of men seen. The prescription for rightly dividing parables must be applied or a person will miss the spiritual understanding hid from those who seek after the things seen

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,710
1,042
113
There will always be ways around the system, hence the reason I am outside the system. That doesn't negate the truth that it is nearly impossible to buy or sell without paper money and fiat currency. What you have done is look for an isolated example to negate a broader truth that it is very difficult to buy or sell without paper money and fiat currency. It could be compared to a prisoner not getting food for 30 days in a prison, but was only given 1 snack in those 30 days. So, which statement is true, "they are not feeding him" or "they are feeding him"? The truth would be that they are not feeding him, and just because they gave him 1 snack in those 30 days does not negate that broader truth that they are not feeding him. That is you, finding isolated examples to negate the broader truth that it is nearly impossible to buy or sell without paper money and fiat currency.
2 Corinthians 5:7(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

The buying and selling has to do with spiritual truth. The gospel .We give to Cesar what God has assigned to maintain these bodies of death. Just as we give to God the unseen things of faith. . the acknowledgement of eternal life..

Esau a marked man like that of Cain. Two atheists that saw no value in the unseen things of God(faith) . Esau sold his birth rite for a cup of soup . Cain sold his brothers life to represent his pagan religion. Out of sight out of mind. The first martyr.

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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Dan why are you so friendly to this false teacher?
 
Oct 24, 2019
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I would agree numbers don't lie. But God does not reveal the timing of the last day or the number of persons that will be delivered as a sign. He will come when no expects and in the twinkling of the eye we will all as sons of God be changed.

I am not familiar with a millennial shabbath rest established for the earth at a grander scale, hence "one day is as a thousand years and a thousand as one day with the Lord, as a mathematical formula. the word as in that phase signals a parable is in view. The signified language of God

The thousand years like other usages of the word thousand in parables is as if one day was a thousand years. Not one day is a thousand years . Its a metaphor to represent a unknown amount as to whatever in in view. . Not according to a literal time period. We walk by faith the unseen . Jesus said it a evil generation that looks to a sign walking by sight. No sign as to the last day or number of those elected to salvation is given.

And the word sabbath is a non time sensitive word. It simply mean rest.
There is an appointed time for rest. Just as there was the appointed time of weekly shabbath, there is the appointed time of millennial shabbath. Read my bible study regarding this http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2018/11/0...-yb-jubilees-and-the-12901335-days-of-daniel/
 
Oct 24, 2019
302
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I disagree. I believe I have done much more than find a small exception to the general truth of no buying and selling. I believe I have pointed to a way that a person could buy anything sold at a local Walmart, it would just cost more.

I'll flesh out what I'm thinking a bit more.

Pawn shop owners tend to be wheeler-dealers. Suppose I go into a pawn shop and say that I have these sincerely held religious beliefs that prevent me from using the Fiat money system, but I have these gold coins. He has a puzzled look on his face, but he's listening because he sees the gold coins.

First I will give him a 1 oz coin worth about $1,500 and my Walmart shopping list. The stuff on my shopping list comes to about $1,000.

All he has to do is go buy the stuff at Walmart or even order it online. When he has the items, I will come pick them up.

It should be an easy sell to the pawn shop owner because he is making $500 with no risk and little effort.

The reason why Walmart itself doesn't just accept the gold coin and the reason for the look of puzzlement on the pawn shop owners face is that virtually no one has the religious belief that Fiat money is sinful.

Which brings me to my next question. I have seen on this thread that according to your interpretation of the law of Moses, Fiat money is wrong. Have you discussed that in detail on this thread or somewhere?

Of course there is a second step. Even if the law says that Christians shouldn't use Fiat money, I am not convinced that Christians are to follow the law. I believe we were talking about that on a previous thread. Did you want to respond to my most recent reply to you there?
https://christianchat.com/threads/d...-to-keep-the-law-of-moses.185392/post-4059723
Perhaps you have found a way for believers outside of the financial system to use pawn shops to acquire goods. I doubt a pawn broker would do your walmart grocery shopping though, unless he stands something to gain, and a significant amount albeit. So perhaps you would have to pay him double in gold than the worth of the groceries themselves. There will always be ways around the system. Even in your fantastical interpretation of Revelation with microchips and 666 tattoos, don't you think I could buy or sell with an aunt that loves me that owns a grocery shop that would permit me a payment in gold or silver if I needed to? Would that therefore negate your fantastical interpretation that it would be impossible to buy or sell without microchips and 666 tattoos? Probably not. You have created a fantasy in your mind that prevents you from understanding that it is indeed currently very difficult to buy or sell without paper money and fiat currency. How do I know this? Because I live outside the financial system. There are no merchants here in Medellin that I've consulted with that will accept payments in metals, not even to purchase a water bottle if I wanted to drink. I cannot take a taxi anywhere. I have to rely on my bicycle to get around the city. I cannot have a car, because it requires gasoline and insurance, which involve having paper money and fiat currency. I cannot work, because everything is paid in paper money and fiat currency. I cannot pay monthly bills, because utilities do not accept payments in metals, so I had to prepay for things years in advance. Have you no understanding of how difficult it is to live outside of the financial system? And going back to your example regarding the pawn broker, what happens when you run out of gold, how are you going to work to earn gold if everyone pays in paper money and fiat currency? This is why I gave you the example of the prisoner, because you're hung up on isolated examples to negate the broader truth that it is nearly impossible to buy or sell without paper money and fiat currency. Why do you do this? Because you don't want to believe that paper money and fiat currency is the mark of the beast, so you find ways to discredit the truth.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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834
113
I doubt a pawn broker would do your walmart grocery shopping though, unless he stands something to gain, and a significant amount albeit.
I don't think you would have to pay all that much.

And it doesn't have to be a pawnbroker. You could use a struggling college student or starving artist to act as your middle person.

my point is that it would be very possible to buy and sell today without using Fiat money. The prophecy is that it will not be possible to buy and sell, not that it will be just kind of difficult.