Prophecy to the dishearted
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Thank you for your kind response.
I agree with all that you have said.
the reason for the segregation is that divisions have crept in, and have been in place for a very long time. It started with the saying, "I am of Paul, or Peter, or James."
I don't believe that drawing attention to false teachers and false prophets is profitable.
I don't believe that Jonathan is trying to mislead people away from Christ. I will not make any judgment on him. I believe that the words he gives are in need of refinement, and that he needs to grow in the gift. I believe that if he is hounded that he could fall into deep deception.
I believe that rather than call another false, that if the Spirit does not witness to our hearts about the word, that we judge the word alone, in private, and if lead by the Spirit, then offer a correction of the word, in meekness and gentleness.
It is not an easy thing to prophecy. It never becomes easy, but in the beginning, it is difficult and it is easy to allow some of our spirit to influence the word given. It takes practice to grow out of this, practice in following the Spirit.
In Christ,
I agree with all that you have said.
the reason for the segregation is that divisions have crept in, and have been in place for a very long time. It started with the saying, "I am of Paul, or Peter, or James."
I don't believe that drawing attention to false teachers and false prophets is profitable.
I don't believe that Jonathan is trying to mislead people away from Christ. I will not make any judgment on him. I believe that the words he gives are in need of refinement, and that he needs to grow in the gift. I believe that if he is hounded that he could fall into deep deception.
I believe that rather than call another false, that if the Spirit does not witness to our hearts about the word, that we judge the word alone, in private, and if lead by the Spirit, then offer a correction of the word, in meekness and gentleness.
It is not an easy thing to prophecy. It never becomes easy, but in the beginning, it is difficult and it is easy to allow some of our spirit to influence the word given. It takes practice to grow out of this, practice in following the Spirit.
In Christ,
M
Jonathan has been told, kindly at first and now, because of his lack of repentance, more forcefully. He needs a revelation of God. He needs prayers, and a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowedge of God.
Jonathan,we are praying for the Spirit of Truth and Light, the Holy Spirit of God to enlighten you!
Maggie
Jonathan,we are praying for the Spirit of Truth and Light, the Holy Spirit of God to enlighten you!
Maggie
I see what you are saying, and understand.
I also believe that Jonathan is sincere in his posts, and I really don't see any error in what he says, but that is not the problem.
Where some of us see the error is Jonathan is sincere, but is he speaking from HIS HEART or FROM GOD?
I think Jonathan wants to believe that he possesses this power, and is passionate in this belief but that does not mean he has it. He speaks with such sincerity, but to many it is transparent to where he is speaking from his own heart and not from God.
None of us hate Jonathan, and we certainly don't want to hurt him even if we do sounds harsh, but believing doesnt mean you have certain gifts. I know I sound very negative and I don't mean to be but I think many people become misguided because they think all you have to do is BELIEVE. I believe in alot. I believe the Lord will come again. I believe God loves me. I believe that I will have a home in heaven.
Is this because a modern day prophet told me this? No. It is because I have the bible. I read it. I study it, and everytime I open the book up I learn something more.
I also believe that Jonathan is sincere in his posts, and I really don't see any error in what he says, but that is not the problem.
Where some of us see the error is Jonathan is sincere, but is he speaking from HIS HEART or FROM GOD?
I think Jonathan wants to believe that he possesses this power, and is passionate in this belief but that does not mean he has it. He speaks with such sincerity, but to many it is transparent to where he is speaking from his own heart and not from God.
None of us hate Jonathan, and we certainly don't want to hurt him even if we do sounds harsh, but believing doesnt mean you have certain gifts. I know I sound very negative and I don't mean to be but I think many people become misguided because they think all you have to do is BELIEVE. I believe in alot. I believe the Lord will come again. I believe God loves me. I believe that I will have a home in heaven.
Is this because a modern day prophet told me this? No. It is because I have the bible. I read it. I study it, and everytime I open the book up I learn something more.
Exactly. But if the ministers and teachers of the congregations are selected by a plurality of elders, who themselves meet the qualifications set forth in 1 Timothy for elders, then they will have the authority to remove or reprove those who teach falsely, as defined by teaching unbiblical truths. Even more importantly, if the members of the congregation are educated as to the will of God, as found in the bible, and they are living lives in accordance with that will, then they will be receptive to the voice of Holy Spirit, and discerning when choosing elders and deacons. They will also recognize when teachers are teaching that which is incorrect, and will be able to take them aside and indicate to them their error, using proper scriptures, and in a loving and kind way.
This sad situation with VW points out the need for fellowship in a bible believing church. VW's disdain for Christian fellowship is perhaps his undoing. I don't know about the rest of you, but I am reinvigorated when I partake of the Lord's supper each Sunday. This act of fellowship with Christ, and with His Church, which is composed of all believers of all congregations, forces me to examine myself, and my relationship with Christ, and other believers. I come away, feeling that because of my relationship with Christ, that my sins are forgiven. What a wonderful feeling that is! This of course is not the only time I spend with Jesus, but it is time that is set aside for that purpose only.
Hebrews 10:25 Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another--and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
As fellow Christians, we support and uplift each other. We also hold each other accountable. For some reason, we find it easier to live as we should, when we are held accountable by others. This responsibility to hold each other accountable is bothersome to many. We are taught in this society to "mind our own business". As I stated earlier, Mat. 7:1 has become a mantra to many. I have no problem with my brothers and sisters holding me accountable, for I know that they do so in love, and not condemnation.
It is not easy to hold someone accountable in an electronic medium such as this. Because we really don't know each other in a way that is possible when attending worship services together, it is easy to be misunderstood. And because of the nature of a debate medium, where the goal if often to "prove" one as right or wrong, it is easy to be seen as condemning, rather than edifying. This is especially true when we "get caught up in the moment", and say things out of anger or hurtful feelings. However, we must hold those who would teach, on whatever medium, accountable for false doctrine, as defined by the Scriptures.
Let us pray that God will lead VW to a Christian assembly somewhere, where he will find the fellowship he needs to find his way back to the truth.
In Jesus name we pray
This sad situation with VW points out the need for fellowship in a bible believing church. VW's disdain for Christian fellowship is perhaps his undoing. I don't know about the rest of you, but I am reinvigorated when I partake of the Lord's supper each Sunday. This act of fellowship with Christ, and with His Church, which is composed of all believers of all congregations, forces me to examine myself, and my relationship with Christ, and other believers. I come away, feeling that because of my relationship with Christ, that my sins are forgiven. What a wonderful feeling that is! This of course is not the only time I spend with Jesus, but it is time that is set aside for that purpose only.
Hebrews 10:25 Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another--and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
As fellow Christians, we support and uplift each other. We also hold each other accountable. For some reason, we find it easier to live as we should, when we are held accountable by others. This responsibility to hold each other accountable is bothersome to many. We are taught in this society to "mind our own business". As I stated earlier, Mat. 7:1 has become a mantra to many. I have no problem with my brothers and sisters holding me accountable, for I know that they do so in love, and not condemnation.
It is not easy to hold someone accountable in an electronic medium such as this. Because we really don't know each other in a way that is possible when attending worship services together, it is easy to be misunderstood. And because of the nature of a debate medium, where the goal if often to "prove" one as right or wrong, it is easy to be seen as condemning, rather than edifying. This is especially true when we "get caught up in the moment", and say things out of anger or hurtful feelings. However, we must hold those who would teach, on whatever medium, accountable for false doctrine, as defined by the Scriptures.
Let us pray that God will lead VW to a Christian assembly somewhere, where he will find the fellowship he needs to find his way back to the truth.
In Jesus name we pray
DAVE!!!!!! Im glad you are here!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!
this is my happy face
this is my happy face
I like happy, smiling faces!
I've been so busy, I haven't had much time to post in here. I do read what you and others are posting though. You have lived up to your word, you do indeed "hold your own". Keep up the good work!
It is difficult to deal with these things. If it was easy, then it would not be worth much.
It is written that the Spirit brings life. I never understood what this truly meant until I was confronted in my beliefs.
There is error in the words that Jonathan utters. But there is also some truth. I trust God to correct His servants. I ask Him to correct me. Why? Because I realize that I am not wise enough to judge myself. My judgment is not just or true. I believe that only God's judgment is completely true, and that His judgment is alone untainted by lack of understanding.
This could have been handled much better. If his words were demonic, then a strong rebuke is called for. If he is just unlearned or unpracticed, even lacking in discretion, then a gentle rebuke is what is needed. ("You are a false prophet" is not a gentle rebuke. This charge has been leveled at me many times, and it is a very serious charge indeed, for if a person is a false prophet, then they are not of the fold and are not of Christ and have become His enemy.)
It is very difficult to be called as a bond-servant of Jesus today. There are very few congregations which will recognize a prophet, and even fewer that will take on the daunting task of training up a prophet. And it does, as Maggie said, take years to learn to hear and speak as a prophet. The first and hardest lesson is that the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet. This has much more significance than most ever realize.
Discretion is the proof of maturity and coming into the office of prophet. Still, in days such as these, there will be very little agreement with the words a prophet must speak. (a prophet hears words which must be spoken, but he also hears words which must not be spoken. Experience in following the Holy Spirit is the guide to this. A young prophet almost never know which is which, which word should be shared and which should not be shared.)
The problem we have with prophets is not going away. In fact, it will grow in the next few years to be much greater than it is now. Those who follow Jesus mist learn one thing above all others; they must learn to recognize His voice, so that they can follow Him.
In Christ
It is written that the Spirit brings life. I never understood what this truly meant until I was confronted in my beliefs.
There is error in the words that Jonathan utters. But there is also some truth. I trust God to correct His servants. I ask Him to correct me. Why? Because I realize that I am not wise enough to judge myself. My judgment is not just or true. I believe that only God's judgment is completely true, and that His judgment is alone untainted by lack of understanding.
This could have been handled much better. If his words were demonic, then a strong rebuke is called for. If he is just unlearned or unpracticed, even lacking in discretion, then a gentle rebuke is what is needed. ("You are a false prophet" is not a gentle rebuke. This charge has been leveled at me many times, and it is a very serious charge indeed, for if a person is a false prophet, then they are not of the fold and are not of Christ and have become His enemy.)
It is very difficult to be called as a bond-servant of Jesus today. There are very few congregations which will recognize a prophet, and even fewer that will take on the daunting task of training up a prophet. And it does, as Maggie said, take years to learn to hear and speak as a prophet. The first and hardest lesson is that the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet. This has much more significance than most ever realize.
Discretion is the proof of maturity and coming into the office of prophet. Still, in days such as these, there will be very little agreement with the words a prophet must speak. (a prophet hears words which must be spoken, but he also hears words which must not be spoken. Experience in following the Holy Spirit is the guide to this. A young prophet almost never know which is which, which word should be shared and which should not be shared.)
The problem we have with prophets is not going away. In fact, it will grow in the next few years to be much greater than it is now. Those who follow Jesus mist learn one thing above all others; they must learn to recognize His voice, so that they can follow Him.
In Christ
You said it. There is error in what Jonathan utters. A true prophet will not contradict the word of God. I also have to correct myself. I said I didnt see much error in his posts, but I also had not read some of his Prophecies. Some are filled with hate and anger. I don't know where in the bible a single prophet spoke with hate and anger. Yet Jonathan said it wasn't his words, but Gods. We all know God is a loving God. He will not speak with hate.
Hi Elizabeth,
Two things about what you posted. God is not just a loving God, (I don't remember a scripture that characterizes Him in such a fashion,) but God is love. The difference is subtle, but very significant.
Secondly, (and this is a difficult request, I know,) read, just read and not study the prophets. Daniel and Ezekiel and Jeremiah and so on, just reading like it is a book. As you read these words which are from God's heart, when you have finished with the last one, then remember that Paul got the doctrines he taught from here.
The first place the Holy Spirit took me to read in the bible to teach me about God and His heart was Lamenations. (I was still broken hearted by the vision of the cross that He had shown me, and this vision just broke me even more.) I went from there to read in His light every prophecy in the bible, just reading and absorbing.
We say that God is a loving God, but we really don't understand what that means. It certainly does not mean that He never says anything harsh or angry. (I would never characterize God as mean, because that attribute belongs to humans and the devil alone.) God most certainly does get angry. Almost right from the beginning of Romans Paul explains how the anger of God burns against the unrighteousness and wickedness of men. it is a constant theme throughout the new testament that God will punish sinners. All sinners.
Paul's doctrine is not simple to explain, but it is very simple to live. He taught that all are sinners, period. And that all sinners must die, as the just result of their sin. Bit when we see the righteousness of God, we try to please Him by living a good life, but it is impossible for us, we are sold under sin. But God in His mercy sent Jesus to die our death due us for sin, so that in Jesus we might live. Notice that we still die, only now it is in Jesus' death, not as sinners, but joined with Christ. And the reason for this is so we can be raised with Him to new life, in His resurrection, in His life. The old life is passed away, literally, and we have become new creatures in Jesus.
If we continue to live in the old life then we must die. But to give us the power to live in the new life God has given us the Holy Spirit, and by Him we put to death the deeds of the flesh. But even more we have the Spirit as our guide, to lead us into all righteousness, but most of all as the seal and the proof and the actual fact of our being His children.
I got distracted.
Anyway, read the prophets, just reading and not studying. This is a revelation every Christian should receive.
In Christ
Two things about what you posted. God is not just a loving God, (I don't remember a scripture that characterizes Him in such a fashion,) but God is love. The difference is subtle, but very significant.
Secondly, (and this is a difficult request, I know,) read, just read and not study the prophets. Daniel and Ezekiel and Jeremiah and so on, just reading like it is a book. As you read these words which are from God's heart, when you have finished with the last one, then remember that Paul got the doctrines he taught from here.
The first place the Holy Spirit took me to read in the bible to teach me about God and His heart was Lamenations. (I was still broken hearted by the vision of the cross that He had shown me, and this vision just broke me even more.) I went from there to read in His light every prophecy in the bible, just reading and absorbing.
We say that God is a loving God, but we really don't understand what that means. It certainly does not mean that He never says anything harsh or angry. (I would never characterize God as mean, because that attribute belongs to humans and the devil alone.) God most certainly does get angry. Almost right from the beginning of Romans Paul explains how the anger of God burns against the unrighteousness and wickedness of men. it is a constant theme throughout the new testament that God will punish sinners. All sinners.
Paul's doctrine is not simple to explain, but it is very simple to live. He taught that all are sinners, period. And that all sinners must die, as the just result of their sin. Bit when we see the righteousness of God, we try to please Him by living a good life, but it is impossible for us, we are sold under sin. But God in His mercy sent Jesus to die our death due us for sin, so that in Jesus we might live. Notice that we still die, only now it is in Jesus' death, not as sinners, but joined with Christ. And the reason for this is so we can be raised with Him to new life, in His resurrection, in His life. The old life is passed away, literally, and we have become new creatures in Jesus.
If we continue to live in the old life then we must die. But to give us the power to live in the new life God has given us the Holy Spirit, and by Him we put to death the deeds of the flesh. But even more we have the Spirit as our guide, to lead us into all righteousness, but most of all as the seal and the proof and the actual fact of our being His children.
I got distracted.
Anyway, read the prophets, just reading and not studying. This is a revelation every Christian should receive.
In Christ
The main thing that you block out is that when Christ took our sin upon His body and became sin literally (2Cor 5:21), God poured out His wrath upon His Son on the cross for ALL sin, even the sin of those that would not believe (Is 53:4-10, 2Cor 5:18,19, Jn 12:48). God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their sins and trespasses unto them because they were imputed to His precious body on the cross. God does not impute sin, do you?. If a person dies in their sin without being reconciled to God (Rom 5:10, 2Cor 5:20), it is because they have not been cleansed from the sin that God has paid for and put away through the death, burial and resurrection of His Son.
All those that have not believed upon the Son for salvation will not inherit eternal life because they live in the unrighteousness of their sin and have not received the righteousness of God by faith through Jesus Christ who put away their sin through His blood. Until you get that in your mind and heart through grace and the Holy Spirit, you will continue to have strange thoughts and doctrines that fall short of the finished work of Christ. You want fellowship and communion without the finished work. You want to draw near to the presence of God without the finished work and you want to walk in the Spirit without the finished work. It will not happen and God won't let you or any of us have all that He is without the finished work of Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
Jesus Christ came to bare our sins on His own body and take the blame for our sin. He came not to condemn us for our sin, but through His divine unconditional love He came to take the blame for our guilt. This is the Jesus that came to save sinners and when He put away our sins their in no double jeopardy for sin. We will not be paying or judged for our sins in any form, because we have the blood of Christ that testifies that He paid for them and suffered death on our behalf. That is the gospel we are to preach in all the world to every creature and it has never changed. It is the gospel that has been given to the church that the Holy Spirit testifies to in our heart and guides us into the truth of it, so that we can bare witness and preach it to those that are lost.
All those that have not believed upon the Son for salvation will not inherit eternal life because they live in the unrighteousness of their sin and have not received the righteousness of God by faith through Jesus Christ who put away their sin through His blood. Until you get that in your mind and heart through grace and the Holy Spirit, you will continue to have strange thoughts and doctrines that fall short of the finished work of Christ. You want fellowship and communion without the finished work. You want to draw near to the presence of God without the finished work and you want to walk in the Spirit without the finished work. It will not happen and God won't let you or any of us have all that He is without the finished work of Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
Jesus Christ came to bare our sins on His own body and take the blame for our sin. He came not to condemn us for our sin, but through His divine unconditional love He came to take the blame for our guilt. This is the Jesus that came to save sinners and when He put away our sins their in no double jeopardy for sin. We will not be paying or judged for our sins in any form, because we have the blood of Christ that testifies that He paid for them and suffered death on our behalf. That is the gospel we are to preach in all the world to every creature and it has never changed. It is the gospel that has been given to the church that the Holy Spirit testifies to in our heart and guides us into the truth of it, so that we can bare witness and preach it to those that are lost.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Judgment begins with the house of God.
I used to believe as you do. I believed that way for many years.
Then I saw the cross, I saw Jesus on the cross, FOR MY SINS!
I came to understand that I am not to sin any more, that I am to struggle against sin even to the shedding of blood.
Your gospel leads to sin, unrequited sin, and it leads to death.
I used to believe as you do. I believed that way for many years.
Then I saw the cross, I saw Jesus on the cross, FOR MY SINS!
I came to understand that I am not to sin any more, that I am to struggle against sin even to the shedding of blood.
Your gospel leads to sin, unrequited sin, and it leads to death.
E
God will also not speak in error. if he would that would make him no better than any of the pagan Gods people worship!
People are so desperate to prove there are prophets, they will listen and stick up for one who makes errors. and says he speaks from God. This is a sad state of affairs and we were warned about these people!!
People are so desperate to prove there are prophets, they will listen and stick up for one who makes errors. and says he speaks from God. This is a sad state of affairs and we were warned about these people!!
We were warned about false prophets, not about people who make a mistake. We do not live in the old covenant, where a prophet must be perfectly correct. In the new covenant, the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet.
If there were no prophets at all, then Jesus would have said to beware of prophets.
If there were no prophets at all, then Jesus would have said to beware of prophets.
E
A man who claims to be a prophet. And who claims to be speaking from God, and in that speech where the man is "speaking from God" if a mistake is made. The man is claiming the mistake is from God.
Why are you trying to defend a person who claims "God said this" and at least part of this is error? Can God speak error? According to you he can!! This is not a man's mistake. This is a man claiming God said this. And this is a mistake.
Why are you trying to defend a person who claims "God said this" and at least part of this is error? Can God speak error? According to you he can!! This is not a man's mistake. This is a man claiming God said this. And this is a mistake.
Oh yes I do know what I am saying, because it is in your Bible and it has been written for all to read. You refuse to believe the finished work because you need to be able to justify your strange doctrine and your prophecies about sin and judgment when Christ has already been judged for sin. The truth is, our prophet and Savior Jesus Christ already took care of sin and if we sin we have an advocate, which is Jesus Christ the righteousness one. He bore our sin and put it away and now we are justified, not to live in sin but to be free from sin and its effects and penalty.
We don't want to continue in sin, as you presumptuously claim in your self righteousness disposition that you inherited through your religious adamic nature through the fall. You and all your cohorts on this site that have never learned a thing about the finished work nor are you able to apply it to the members of Christ's body and church. Go live your life as you believe and leave the church to the One that redeemed it with His precious blood. Let Him do as He sees fit to present it as a spotless bride without wrinkle or blemish in every local assembly that gathers themselves together unto Him. He is the head of the church and His Spirit is doing a great work in the lives of every member through grace and truth.
We don't want to continue in sin, as you presumptuously claim in your self righteousness disposition that you inherited through your religious adamic nature through the fall. You and all your cohorts on this site that have never learned a thing about the finished work nor are you able to apply it to the members of Christ's body and church. Go live your life as you believe and leave the church to the One that redeemed it with His precious blood. Let Him do as He sees fit to present it as a spotless bride without wrinkle or blemish in every local assembly that gathers themselves together unto Him. He is the head of the church and His Spirit is doing a great work in the lives of every member through grace and truth.
Aren't you the one that likes to accuse others of circular reasoning. The Lord warned in the same manner when there were prophets concerning Israel. If we have the Spirit, the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Christ (Rev 19:10). When we testify of Christ and the gospel, after He has already come and finished the work, we are confirming what has already been accomplished and fulfilled and it must be believed upon by retroactive faith. That is the witness and testimony of the truth from the Spirit and that is the spirit of prophecy.
When we go and preach the gospel, that is the testimony of Christ and the spirit of prophecy, because we speak forth the words of Christ and the testimony of His life that bore our sins on the cross. That testimony has the power of the Holy Spirit unto salvation by grace through faith. That is the testimony that the Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God that have been ordained to bring that message into all the world. If you really have the Spirit you should understand that and praise God for the glory of His grace. I hope you do.
When we go and preach the gospel, that is the testimony of Christ and the spirit of prophecy, because we speak forth the words of Christ and the testimony of His life that bore our sins on the cross. That testimony has the power of the Holy Spirit unto salvation by grace through faith. That is the testimony that the Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God that have been ordained to bring that message into all the world. If you really have the Spirit you should understand that and praise God for the glory of His grace. I hope you do.