Prophecy to the dishearted

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am not defending anyone except from being murdered by a bunch of people who sit in judgment when they are no more perfect than the one they judge.
I never claimed to be perfect! I also never claimed to be a prophet, and claimed to be saying the words God spoke to me. And then the words which are supposed to be from God are wrong and in error.

God tells us to judge false prophets. We are doing what we are commanded to do. You sticking up for him is well.. We just know where you come from when you do things like this. God would not defend him. God would judge him also. You don't like it or he does not like it. You both can talk to god (which you should be doing anyway so he can correct your mistakes!
 
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Rosewater

Guest
I think people should keep in mind that prophets are a rare thing, not commonplace. Personally, I am wary of the idea that it is some kind of routine office, making it sound commplace.
 

VW

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Dec 22, 2009
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Aren't you the one that likes to accuse others of circular reasoning. The Lord warned in the same manner when there were prophets concerning Israel. If we have the Spirit, the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Christ (Rev 19:10). When we testify of Christ and the gospel, after He has already come and finished the work, we are confirming what has already been accomplished and fulfilled and it must be believed upon by retroactive faith. That is the witness and testimony of the truth from the Spirit and that is the spirit of prophecy.

When we go and preach the gospel, that is the testimony of Christ and the spirit of prophecy, because we speak forth the words of Christ and the testimony of His life that bore our sins on the cross. That testimony has the power of the Holy Spirit unto salvation by grace through faith. That is the testimony that the Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God that have been ordained to bring that message into all the world. If you really have the Spirit you should understand that and praise God for the glory of His grace. I hope you do.
This is not circular reasoning. If Jesus wanted to warn us against all prophets, then He would have done so. He did not. In fact, He spoke of prophets more than once, and never once said that prophecy would end before His return.

I praise God for the Holy Spirit, who is grace from God. To Him I owe my birth into God's family.

What you need to learn is that you have actually died with Christ Jesus. And that you have come alive in His resurrection. Then you would be one of those who live and believe, rather than one of those who believe and will eventually live, even if you die.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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I never claimed to be perfect! I also never claimed to be a prophet, and claimed to be saying the words God spoke to me. And then the words which are supposed to be from God are wrong and in error.

God tells us to judge false prophets. We are doing what we are commanded to do. You sticking up for him is well.. We just know where you come from when you do things like this. God would not defend him. God would judge him also. You don't like it or he does not like it. You both can talk to god (which you should be doing anyway so he can correct your mistakes!
God does not tell us to judge false prophets, or anyone else. He specifically tells us not to judge anyone.

What we do judge is the words of the prophets, not the prophet himself.

Jesus defends you before the Father, even when you judge another.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
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This is not circular reasoning. If Jesus wanted to warn us against all prophets, then He would have done so. He did not. In fact, He spoke of prophets more than once, and never once said that prophecy would end before His return.

I praise God for the Holy Spirit, who is grace from God. To Him I owe my birth into God's family.

What you need to learn is that you have actually died with Christ Jesus. And that you have come alive in His resurrection. Then you would be one of those who live and believe, rather than one of those who believe and will eventually live, even if you die.

The bible does say that which has become perfect the gifts would cease. The bible is perfect. It is the book of knowledge. knowledge is a gift.

We have record of signs and wonders and prophets and things of that nature and record those signs were used and passed by the laying of hands and used for the purpose to make those who do not believe to believe.
 

VW

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Dec 22, 2009
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I think people should keep in mind that prophets are a rare thing, not commonplace. Personally, I am wary of the idea that it is some kind of routine office, making it sound commplace.
You are right, they are very rare, and they have a very difficult road before them. They must say words which will cause them to suffer persecution and anger and hate.

It is never easy to tell a self righteous person that they are not righteous at all.
 
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AnandaHya

Guest

The questions that an honest, intelligent, and open minded person must ask are the following:

1. Do we need prophets today to inform our King (Jesus Christ) of the will of God?
2. Do we need prophets today to add to the word of God when all revelation was revealed to the apostles in the beginning?
3. Do we need prophets to reveal God's will to us when we have the spirit of Christ within us?
4. Do we need prophets to edify us when we have Christ's church?
5. Do we need prophets to teach us how to love God when we have been buried with Christ and redeemed by His precious blood?

Please do not be deceived by those who seek for personal glory, under the guise of sacrificing themselves to the hatred of the world.



LOL HI DAVE ;) ironic you answered my questions as I was pming them to you.

I think we will start a different thread if you don't mind and i'll answer there ;)
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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The bible does say that which has become perfect the gifts would cease. The bible is perfect. It is the book of knowledge. knowledge is a gift.

We have record of signs and wonders and prophets and things of that nature and record those signs were used and passed by the laying of hands and used for the purpose to make those who do not believe to believe.
Paul was talking about when Jesus comes. For when Jesus comes, we will know just as we are known. We do not know that way now. Until we do know just as we are known, then the perfect has not come, and prophecies are still valid. So are miracles.

We are still looking into a glass darkly. But as we behold His glory, we are changed into His image, from glory to glory. But how many of us are beholding Him?

The bible is perfect because it is from God. But we are far from perfect, and we cannot gain perfection from the bible. Yes, it is useful for training and correction and all of the other things written about it. But we can only gain perfection from the Holy Spirit, and from when we see Christ. As it is written, when we see Him, we will become just as He is. And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him makes himself pure, just as He is pure.

It is believed by some, even many, that all of God's words are contained in the bible, and that once the book of the revelation of Jesus Christ was pinned by John, that God stopped speaking.

God did not loose His mouth, and He still speaks to us. Jesus was blunt, saying that His sheep hear His voice. Not some of them, but all of them.
 
Jun 24, 2010
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Yeah, well, seeing as how you tend to ignore all of the parts of the bible about our struggle against sin, and how God will judge our sin, I believe that you need to go back to school, the Holy Spirit school. If you ever read the new testament with your eyes completely open, you would find that over half of it is about not sinning, and the judgment we will face is we do go on sinning.

So tell me, who is teaching false doctrine?
Of course we struggle with sin because God never took away the old sin nature when He redeemed us. He left it right there in the members and cells of our body so that we would have to depend on Him and His grace for the rest of our earthly life before we are resurrected in our new glorified bodies. However, we will not face the kind of judgment that you presume. If any have a problem with sin, God will discipline and chastise the believer and scourge that believer to within an inch of his life.

There has been times when God has put some to sleep and there may be times in the future. Those are His decisions and if they lead unto the sin of physical death, that is God's call, not yours or mine. We are to preach the gospel, edify the body, pray for the saints, love our neighbor and win the lost. That is a full time job and if God has warnings for those in the local church, He will use the pastor-teacher and honor his position and place that God has called him. It is not your place or mine, but it is the pastor-teachers and we are to stay out of it and keep ourselves in the love of God. You should understand that but you don't.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
God does not tell us to judge false prophets, or anyone else. He specifically tells us not to judge anyone.

What we do judge is the words of the prophets, not the prophet himself.

Jesus defends you before the Father, even when you judge another.
So I can't judge a false prophet as a false prophet? And warn people to stay away from him??

Thanks, But I will listen to God. The more you speak the more I can come to no other conclusion that you do not know very much about God.
 

VW

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Dec 22, 2009
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Of course we struggle with sin because God never took away the old sin nature when He redeemed us. He left it right there in the members and cells of our body so that we would have to depend on Him and His grace for the rest of our earthly life before we are resurrected in our new glorified bodies. However, we will not face the kind of judgment that you presume. If any have a problem with sin, God will discipline and chastise the believer and scourge that believer to within an inch of his life.

There has been times when God has put some to sleep and there may be times in the future. Those are His decisions and if they lead unto the sin of physical death, that is God's call, not yours or mine. We are to preach the gospel, edify the body, pray for the saints, love our neighbor and win the lost. That is a full time job and if God has warnings for those in the local church, He will use the pastor-teacher and honor his position and place that God has called him. It is not your place or mine, but it is the pastor-teachers and we are to stay out of it and keep ourselves in the love of God. You should understand that but you don't.
Well, in the same place, the very same sentence where Paul wrote about the Pastor/Teacher, he also wrote about the apostles and the prophets. If we are no longer to have either of these, then what is to say we are to have Pastors and Teachers, or even evangelists?

I am sorry, but your doctrine is a mix of things that meet certain criteria of yours, and that tend to ignore those things which do not agree with what you believe.

In any case, what do we do when the Pastor is wrong? Or the teacher? Who corrects them? Especially if they have stopped listening to God, if they ever did in the first place.

Trust in your bible. I truly hope that it serves you well.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
The questions that an honest, intelligent, and open minded person must ask are the following:

1. Do we need prophets today to inform our King (Jesus Christ) of the will of God? No, We have scripture, and teachers to do this. In fact we are all called to do this.
2. Do we need prophets today to add to the word of God when all revelation was revealed to the apostles in the beginning? No, Thats why we have scripture. Anything added to scripture should be done away with because we have no proof it is from God unless scripture supports it, If God wanted to tell us more. He would not have "closed or finished) his book.
3. Do we need prophets to reveal God's will to us when we have the spirit of Christ within us? No.
4. Do we need prophets to edify us when we have Christ's church? No, what more do we need?
5. Do we need prophets to teach us how to love God when we have been buried with Christ and redeemed by His precious blood? I think scripture does a great job of this. Not to mention our personal experience with God can teach us more about relating to God than anything else. I would not want a prophet. or another man, to tell me how to relate with my wife.

Please do not be deceived by those who seek for personal glory, under the guise of sacrificing themselves to the hatred of the world.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I think scripture does a great job of this. Not to mention our personal experience with God can teach us more about relating to God than anything else. I would not want a prophet. or another man, to tell me how to relate with my wife..
very wise EG.
i'm fairly certain she would not, either:D
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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So I can't judge a false prophet as a false prophet? And warn people to stay away from him??

Thanks, But I will listen to God. The more you speak the more I can come to no other conclusion that you do not know very much about God.
Actually, my aim is not to know about God, but to know Him personally.

Show me one, just one passage in scripture, in the new testament, where we are commanded to judge false prophets as false. Just one.

Not false spirits, not the antichrist spirit, but those people who we think are false prophets.

If anything, if you know that they are denying Jesus Christ, and that He is Lord and Savior, and that he is teaching that one must obey the Law and be circumcised and keep all of the ordinances of Moses in order to be saved; in that case, if you were an apostle, you could turn this one over to the devil for destruction. But their heresy will bring their swift destruction any way.

You do not know very much about God, else you would know that He is the judge, not you.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Paul was talking about when Jesus comes. For when Jesus comes, we will know just as we are known. We do not know that way now. Until we do know just as we are known, then the perfect has not come, and prophecies are still valid. So are miracles..
...false....
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Actually, my aim is not to know about God, but to know Him personally.

Show me one, just one passage in scripture, in the new testament, where we are commanded to judge false prophets as false. Just one.

Not false spirits, not the antichrist spirit, but those people who we think are false prophets.

If anything, if you know that they are denying Jesus Christ, and that He is Lord and Savior, and that he is teaching that one must obey the Law and be circumcised and keep all of the ordinances of Moses in order to be saved; in that case, if you were an apostle, you could turn this one over to the devil for destruction. But their heresy will bring their swift destruction any way.

You do not know very much about God, else you would know that He is the judge, not you.
yeah. Keep on believing this. A man who claims to be a prophet but prophesies a false truth is not of God. I am free to say this. It does not matter if you deny my freedom given by God to do this or not. God said we are to beware of false teachers and prophets. who bring glory to themselves. and do not say the words which come from God. Paul gave this warning through inspiration of God. I am just repeating Pauls warnings.

You don't like it? Thats to bad!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
he doesn't get it. God did not say when you are perfected. or when They are perfected. he said when "That" is perfected. it is not a he she it is an it.

the only It I know which has been , or will ever be perfected is the word of God, scripture!
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
2 Corinthians 11

Concern for Their Faithfulness

1 Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly—and indeed you do bear with me. 2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity[a] that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!


kind of makes me think Paul is telling us not to put up with false doctrine, teachers, prophets, etc.
 
Feb 16, 2011
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No one has proved it false prophecy! You just say it is. I don't think you even studied true prophecy. Just because there are false prophets you say I am one. Thats ridiculous! You are a false teacher by the way. Did God call you to teach people the Scripture? Are you claiming to be a teacher above the pastors? The teacher is third! I Corinthians 12:28 So if I should take a test or prove to you I can prophesy, you should take a test to prove you are called to be a teacher or stop posting threads trying to teach people something.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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You are right, they are very rare, and they have a very difficult road before them. They must say words which will cause them to suffer persecution and anger and hate.

It is never easy to tell a self righteous person that they are not righteous at all.
what pious nonsense.
and what a thing to insist upon.
don't you know, as Abiding's posts exegeted (i know you circumvent scripture when it suits you) there's no provision for this kind of thing?
God isn't sending prophets; you're not one; He hates false prophets, and he punishes people who listen to them.
He permits them continue for a time as a test of his REAL people, to see if they love Him enough to test that false prophet.

why someone would choose this trouble for themselves is beyond me. but: The Spirit clearly said...

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.


The Clear And Present Danger Of Contemplative Spirituality

By Ken Silva
Apprising Ministries

Christ Jesus Himself Is The One Who First Taught Us Sola Scriptura

Though some take exception to what I have been writing concerning corrupt Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM) no one credible writing concerning this spurious CSM masquerading as so-called Spiritual Formation, as espoused by Dallas Willard along with his friend Richard Foster, is trying to say that worshiping God in spirit and in truth isn't…well, spiritual.

The issue is: How in the Bible did God say we are to approach Him spiritually? Pastor Bob DeWaay gets to the heart of the matter when he says:

There are ordained means in the New Testament, by which the Christian grows in the grace and knowledge of the Lord: the Word, ordinances, and prayer... If by faith we avail ourselves of God's ordained means, we are assured that Christ will thereby convey the benefits of His redemption to His people... We not only need God's ordained means, but we need to avail ourselves of them on His terms.

Gary Gilley sheds additional light upon the very grave danger at the rotten root of this spirituality of the self as well as the current rebellion in the visible church against Sola Scriptura:

I fear that [the market-driven church and the closely related "Purpose Driven Life"] will be remembered by future generations for their undermining of the authority of Scripture...the authority for what the church now believes has shifted...from the infallible Scriptures to psychological and sociological experts, opinions of the masses, trends of the moment and the philosophy of pragmatism...

The affect of all of this scriptural manipulation is to both erode the authority of God's Word and to give the appearance that what Scripture has to say isn't really important. It is only a short step from here to a Christian community that no longer has much use for the Bible.

This is precisely where the evangelicalism itself has now headed; because in order to follow Foster's quasi-Christian mysticism-lite one must first abandon Sola Scriptura. Case in point being Rick Warren, arguably the most famous minister in the Southern Baptist Convention-itself the largest allegedly "Protestant" denomination in the US-openly embracing apostate Roman Catholicism as a legitimate expression of the Christian faith. Look for yourself in SBC Protestant Pastor Rick Warren Double-Minded on the Reformation and Roman Catholicism, and he's hardly alone in this completely subjective reversal of the Reformation.

As it concerns pretending to be Protestant evangelicalism's sordid lust affair with self-centered CSM it's vital that you come to know that in reality this is simply a reimagined version of the so-called "Christian" mysticism originating with heretical hermits in the desert and which would later flower in the also antibiblical monastic traditions of the Roman Catholic Church. Carefully consider the following by Dr. John MacArthur from 1994. Keep in mind this was also three years before the birth of the extremely ecumenical Emerging Church-the Trojan Horse of the Devil-through which Foster et al would unload corrupt Quaker mysticism along with his own brand of neo-pietism into your local evangelical churches.

Actually what MacArthur wrote below has turned out to be quite prophetic as to why we are only now beginning to pay a very heavy price in forthcoming 1 Peter 4:17 judgments for years of "what does that verse mean to you" Bible teaching. And in addition MacArthur enlightens you as to why I have so often been discussing the subject of neo-orthodoxy:

Neo-orthodoxy is the term used to identify an existentialist variety of Christianity. Because it denies the essential objective basis of truth-the absolute truth and authority of Scripture-neo-orthodoxy must be understood as pseudo-Christianity… Thus while neo-orthodox theologians often sound as if they affirming traditional beliefs, their actual system differs radically from the historic understanding of the Christian faith.

By denying the objectivity of truth, they relegate all theology to the realm of subjective relativism. It is a theology perfectly suited for the age in which we live. And that is precisely why it is so deadly… [Contemplative Spirituality aka] Mysticism is perfectly suited for religious existentialism; indeed, it is the inevitable consequence. The mystic disdains rational understanding and seeks truth instead through the feelings, the imagination, personal visions, inner voices, private illumination, of other purely subjective means. Objective truth becomes practically superfluous.

And so we come around here as to why men such as Emerging Church icon Rob Bell and his friend Emergent Church leader Doug Pagitt have laid spiritual landmines at the base of Sola Scriptura in an attempt to blow away this foundational pillar of the Protestant Reformation. For God's Word cuts straight across their flawed inclusive and "Progressive" postliberal delusions concerning a repainted Fatherhood of God, Brotherhood of man, and the social reform of the neighborhood where you live.
Now can you see why Sola Scriptura was, and is, the foundational principle for the Church of Jesus Christ? For it is in the Bible that God gives us the way He wants us to approach Him spiritually. In closing, I will say tragically evangelicalism, with its own reimagined version of apostate Roman Catholic mysticism, has right now foolishly placed itself right back onto the very same wrong road leading to the very same religious bondage which would finally cause God to raise up His Reformers in the first place.
The Clear And Present Danger Of Contemplative Spirituality

~

Pastor Bob DeWaay came out of the whole prophetic movement and admitted he was caught up in it and that is isn't genuine. his minstry is to help others come to grips with that and to come out and be healed.