Questions on Onanism

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
L

LPT

Guest
#21
Well I'm not gonna argue. I am COMPLETELY persuaded by Scripture that fallen angels mated with human women to produce a hybrid race called the nephillim. I will simply present my case and you can believe whatever you'd like.

The idea that "sons of God" are human believers is beyond preposterous. You know what happens when a believer mates with an unbeliever? It's not as crazy as you might think. They have sex and it produces........ ANOTHER human being!! Not mighty men, with super human attributes. Or Giants. Also, the implication is that these"human" believer sons of God mated with the unbelieving women because they were beautiful. Are we to believe the human believing "daughters of God" were ugly, and that is why they went after unbelieving women?

The ONLY other place in Scripture where the Hebrew term used in Genesis 6 "sons of God" is in Job. Both places in Job it's usage is clearly represented to be ANGELS. Unless you think Adam's believing offspring were there with God, jumping for joy when the world was created. That should be the ball game right there. Shouldn't have to say a single thing else. But of course there is more evidence.

NOTICE that the Lord's brother doesn't say "sons of God" but leaves no doubt that it was FALLEN ANGELS that committed SEXUAL sin, and THAT is the reason they are being held in prison for judgement. This passage leaves ZERO doubt. Jude definitively ties the SEXUAL sin the ANGELS committed (going after strange flesh) to the SEXUAL sin of Sodom & Gomorrah.

Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their [c]proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a SIMILAR manner to these, having given themselves over to SEXUAL immorality and gone after STRANGE FLESH, are set forth as an example, suffering the [d]vengeance of eternal fire.

The word "abode" or habitation, is the Greek word OIKHTHRION. It is used only one other time in Scripture:
2 Corinthians 5 New King James Version (NKJV)
Assurance of the Resurrection
5 For we know that if our earthly [a]house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our [b]HABITATION which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.

So while it's absolutely true the Angels IN HEAVEN, in their HEAVENLY HABITATION, do not have sex or procreate, there is nothing in Scripture that says they are unable to do this on Earth. In fact, THIS IS THE VERY CRIME FOR WHICH THEY WILL BE CAST INTO HELL FOR!!!
They appear in human form all over Scripture, like at Sodom where humans wanted to have sex with them!

I have never figured out why people are so offended by what Scripture clearly says about this subject. I can only assume that as children we have this dreamy idea of what Angels are and we don't like that messed with.
Then I hope your not offended when I say those angels did not break their chains and mate with human women. Further more if fallen angels can take on a physical body, then why isnt it still happening today, why isn't satan doing the same his is probably more powerful than the ones who followed him. surely if it could be done he would have a billion man army destroying every man and woman on earth.
2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment

The whole concept of the fallen angels mating with human women, was born out of the third century by a deluded theologian.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#22
Nope... this thread hasn't sprinted off topic at all...
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#24
Then I hope your not offended when I say those angels did not break their chains and mate with human women. Further more if fallen angels can take on a physical body, then why isnt it still happening today, why isn't satan doing the same his is probably more powerful than the ones who followed him. surely if it could be done he would have a billion man army destroying every man and woman on earth.
He is performing the same kind of work that was in the garden that caused the fall of mankind . Putting his lies on the lips of a creature seen, usurping the authority of God not seen

Its still happening just as with the example of Peter and the Son of man Jesus.Only difference today is blasphemy as attributing the work of one to another against the Son of man seen, is no more possible .Today it will not be forgiven...we walk by faith.

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter,(seen) Get thee behind me, Satan: (not seen) thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God(not seen), but those that be of men(seen) .Mathew 16:22-23

Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men(seen) : but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost (not seen) shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man,(seen) it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost(not seen) , it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,600
3,624
113
#25
you can believe that but the context of the chapter in Gen 6 does not support your belief Contextually.
I believe it does... support my belief contextually
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,600
3,624
113
#26
Huh and I've always thought the sons of God were the offsprings of Adam and Eve before the fall.
Adam and eve where not Gods ,, they where created beings.. So their offspring cannot be called sons of god..
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,600
3,624
113
#27
The belief that Angels cannot take corperal form has no support basis in the Bible.. actually in the Bible on two occasions it is shown that Angels took corpral form .. Once when the two angels went to sodom and second when we are told in scripture that some people have hosted Angels unawares..

Genesis 19: KJV
1 "And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;"

in the same chapter we read about the two angels that where in human form..

Genesis 19:
5 "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. {6} And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, {7} And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. {8} Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. {9} And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. {10} But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door."

The Angels physically grabbed Lot and pulled him into the house and shut the door.. They had physical bodies..

Hebrews 13: KJV
1 "Let brotherly love continue. {2} Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares."

We are told that some people who have given hospitality ""entertained"" strangers and those straingers where Angels and the people never knew they where Angels..
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#28
The idea that "sons of God" are human believers is beyond preposterous. You know what happens when a believer mates with an unbeliever? It's not as crazy as you might think. They have sex and it produces........ ANOTHER human being!! Not mighty men, with super human attributes. Or Giants. Also, the implication is that these"human" believer sons of God mated with the unbelieving women because they were beautiful. Are we to believe the human believing "daughters of God" were ugly, and that is why they went after unbelieving women?
They were daughter of men (no faith) It has nothing to do with outward beauty unbeliever( no faith) can display love just as those who do beleive (have faith) But disobeying God not to be unevenly yoke id what is in view . The eternal seed of Christ was still being protected up until Mathew 1, the end of the genealogy of Christ the spiritual seed

Not a salvation issue and we do not wrestle against flesh and blood . As a brother I respect your person but I think the issue is more how can we hear what the Spirit the says to the churches and not so much how accurate are our private interpretations as personal commentaries . like finger print one varies from the other.

I think the issue is in respect to the spiritual seed (the eternal )the word of God by which all believers are born again . Its not the human seed(the temporal) in view. We still have giants just watch basketball . or wrestling with Andre the Giant.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#29

no, it does not. You have to know the difference between contextual meaning and what is descriptive and a normative in Gen 6:1-7.

if you know that the word Elohim is the name for the following a god, angel, and man. The context of how it is used or what best fits contextually and grammatically is to be used. to have the understanding you cannot interject a presupposition on something that is descriptive. Let us look at the chapter starting at verse 1 to 7:

Gen 6: 1-7
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto "them",

who is the " THEM"? the verse tells us it is MEN human beings.

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

I find it funny those overlook they the words " Took them, wives,"

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.


verse 4 where it says sons of God can mean angels but also it is used for describing the man. The context in this chapter is men doing wickedness. The idea angels came down and married women and had sex with them is a big stretch of two verses in one chapter. And no other verses in the bible to fully make that claim. Then it can't be said. The context of this Chapter is the man doing wrong and God has had enough.
mighty men, giants, all are still men the word "nĕphiyl" = is great or large in body or skillful but man. If this was the cause of giants angels having sex with women how come Num 13:33 does not confirm this?

Because of Genesis is the book of Beginnings and the fall of man is still very young Moses used a term to describe man passed relationship with God before and shortly after the fall. as the man had more time they fall further away from God.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#31
The belief that Angels cannot take corperal form has no support basis in the Bible.. actually in the Bible on two occasions it is shown that Angels took corpral form .. Once when the two angels went to sodom and second when we are told in scripture that some people have hosted Angels unawares..
Angels as messengers for God as those sent by God (apostles ) as sons of God. They are those who are led by the Holy Spirit of God. Either angels messengers have a form or as spirit without form .like the angel that strengthened Christ when he was drinking the cup of wrath in our behalf

If we would entertain that not seen people get locked away. With the exception of blue tooth. Talking to oneself aloud has never been so easy .

God is not a man as us. Melchisedec was revealed as having form as eternal God as a vision .God as Melchisedec has no form .

Just like Moses and Elijah came in a vision to represent the law and the prohets .Melchisedec represented God not seen. Same with the men of Sodom as sons of God .
 

DudleyDorite

Active member
Aug 7, 2018
329
110
28
#32
2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment

The whole concept of the fallen angels mating with human women, was born out of the third century by a deluded theologian.
2 Peter 2:4 actually supports what PennEd is saying. The angels that sinned are the fallen angels who mated with human women to produce a hybrid race of giants called the nephillim. They ARE NOT the entire legions of angels who were stripped from their original abode who warred in heaven. Those are mentioned in Jude 1:6. The word hell in 2 Peter 2:4 is 'Tartaroo' which is the deepest abyss in Hades. This is not upper Hades or Ge-henna. That's where the angels are who "sinned" with the daughters of men that produced giants. Jude 1:6 tells us the fallen angels are NOT in hell yet but are reserved for it in everlasting chains at the judgment of the great day.

Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their [c]proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

I stand with PennEd on this one.
 

DudleyDorite

Active member
Aug 7, 2018
329
110
28
#33
The belief that Angels cannot take corperal form has no support basis in the Bible.. actually in the Bible on two occasions it is shown that Angels took corpral form .. Once when the two angels went to sodom and second when we are told in scripture that some people have hosted Angels unawares..

Genesis 19: KJV
1 "And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;"

in the same chapter we read about the two angels that where in human form..

Genesis 19:
5 "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. {6} And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, {7} And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. {8} Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. {9} And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. {10} But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door."

The Angels physically grabbed Lot and pulled him into the house and shut the door.. They had physical bodies..

Hebrews 13: KJV
1 "Let brotherly love continue. {2} Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares."

We are told that some people who have given hospitality ""entertained"" strangers and those straingers where Angels and the people never knew they where Angels..
You are correct. I, as well as millions of others, believe the fallen angels are the aliens many of us humans have encountered. I'm not sure, but it's possible the aliens did this in their metaphysical bodies. A demon is simply the disembodied spirit of a fallen angel/alien. I don't think we will ever know for sure but that's the way many of us see it.
 

DudleyDorite

Active member
Aug 7, 2018
329
110
28
#34
Huh and I've always thought the sons of God were the offsprings of Adam and Eve before the fall.
The text of Genesis does not in any way suggest that Eve had children before the Fall. Gen 4:1, "And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain..” implies the opposite, with Cain as the first of a series of problematic first-born sons (Ishmael, Esau, Reuben, etc.)
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,600
3,624
113
#35
You are correct. I, as well as millions of others, believe the fallen angels are the aliens many of us humans have encountered. I'm not sure, but it's possible the aliens did this in their metaphysical bodies. A demon is simply the disembodied spirit of a fallen angel/alien. I don't think we will ever know for sure but that's the way many of us see it.
I see aliens as demons as well as supposed ghosts.. I am not sure if demons are fallen angels.. They most probably are but i do not see any Bible passage that makes that clear so it's a grey area for me..
 
L

LPT

Guest
#36
Adam and eve where not Gods ,, they where created beings.. So their offspring cannot be called sons of god..
Indeed Adam and Eve were not gods, now if they had children before they sinned those children could very well have still been Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

then the generation after would be subject to the actions of their parents.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#37
The text of Genesis does not in any way suggest that Eve had children before the Fall. Gen 4:1, "And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain..” implies the opposite, with Cain as the first of a series of problematic first-born sons (Ishmael, Esau, Reuben, etc.)
You say but I understand gen 1:28 differently
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
#38
no, it does not. You have to know the difference between contextual meaning and what is descriptive and a normative in Gen 6:1-7.

if you know that the word Elohim is the name for the following a god, angel, and man. The context of how it is used or what best fits contextually and grammatically is to be used. to have the understanding you cannot interject a presupposition on something that is descriptive. Let us look at the chapter starting at verse 1 to 7:

Gen 6: 1-7
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto "them",

who is the " THEM"? the verse tells us it is MEN human beings.

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

I find it funny those overlook they the words " Took them, wives,"

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.


verse 4 where it says sons of God can mean angels but also it is used for describing the man. The context in this chapter is men doing wickedness. The idea angels came down and married women and had sex with them is a big stretch of two verses in one chapter. And no other verses in the bible to fully make that claim. Then it can't be said. The context of this Chapter is the man doing wrong and God has had enough.
mighty men, giants, all are still men the word "nĕphiyl" = is great or large in body or skillful but man. If this was the cause of giants angels having sex with women how come Num 13:33 does not confirm this?

Because of Genesis is the book of Beginnings and the fall of man is still very young Moses used a term to describe man passed relationship with God before and shortly after the fall. as the man had more time they fall further away from God.
Yes it does. Please refer to post 20.

The Fallen Angels awaiting the Day of judgement in chains would be delighted to hear they can be set free for the sexual sin they committed, because of the preposterous theory put forth that believers mating with unbelievers produce super human giants, that normal humans would seem like grasshoppers in their sight.

What exactly, BEYOND what Jesus' brother told you, is the reason the angels are in chains in darkness as I type?
 

DudleyDorite

Active member
Aug 7, 2018
329
110
28
#39
I see aliens as demons as well as supposed ghosts.. I am not sure if demons are fallen angels.. They most probably are but i do not see any Bible passage that makes that clear so it's a grey area for me..
It is a gray area. What happened to fallen angels is similar to what happened to humans. We were thrown out of the garden, they were thrown out of heaven. Death entered the human race. Death also entered the fallen angelic race. The difference is that after we die our spirit isn't free roaming, we return into the hands of God. After an alien /fallen angel dies, their spirit becomes a free roaming spirit we call demons.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#40
There's no way God is going to allow an angel with no male or female identity to mixbred with humans it is not going to happened. the development of a super human race is foolish and people need to seriously get a grip.
No No No the sin mentioned in 2 Peter 2 is not fallen angels having sex with humans, that sin was done in heaven the falling Angels rebelled disobeyed God.

2 Peter 2

1Now there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies that even deny the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.2Many will follow in their depravity, and because of them the way of truth will be defamed. 3In their greed, these false teachers will exploit you with tales they have concocted. The longstanding verdict against them remains in force, and their destruction does not sleep.

4For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell, delivering them in chains to be held in gloomy darknessa until their judgment; 5if He did not spare the ancient world when He brought the flood on its ungodly people, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, among the eight; 6if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction,b reducing them to ashes as an example of what is coming on the ungodly;c 7and if He rescued Lot, a righteous man distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if all this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.

10Such punishment is specially reserved for those who indulge the corrupt desires of the flesh and despise authority. Bold and self-willed, these men are unafraid to slander angelic majesties. 11Yet not even angels, though greater in strength and power, dare to bring such slanderous charges against them before the Lord.

12These men are like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be captured and destroyed. They blaspheme in matters they do not understand, and like such creatures, they too will be destroyed. 13The harm they will suffer is the wages of their wickedness.

They consider it a pleasure to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their deception as they feast with you. 14Their eyes are full of adultery; their desire for sin is never satisfied; they seduce the unstable. They are accursed children with hearts trained in greed.

15They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor,d who loved the wages of wickedness. 16But he was rebuked for his transgression by a donkey, otherwise without speech, that spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.

17These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18With lofty but empty words, they appeal to the sensual passions of the flesh and entice those who are just escaping from others who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves to corruption. For a man is a slave to whatever has overcome him.

20If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through their knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,e only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turned away from the holy commandment passed on to them.22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”f and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”