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J
Regardless, God is a big God. Pre-trib/post-trib/pre-millinial.post millinial/mid-trib.... etc. Regardless of your personal belief, or whether you chose to concern yourself at all with the rapture, you're salvation does not depends on it. Paul warned us about becoming involved in such petty arguments.
Actually, there was a resurrection before the tribulation, when Jesus was raised. And if we are joined to Him, we are alive in His resurrection.
It is a mistake to believe that the bride of Christ is waiting for the resurrection. She is already alive in Christ, in His resurrection. The rapture and the resurrection are not the same thing.
It is a mistake to believe that the bride of Christ is waiting for the resurrection. She is already alive in Christ, in His resurrection. The rapture and the resurrection are not the same thing.
P
Post-Tribulation Rapture
1 Thessalonians Chapter 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Revelation Chapter 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
It just happens that Jesus comes in the clouds.
It just happens that Jesus comes at the last trumpet.
It just happens that Jesus comes with the voice of the archangel..
It just happens that Jesus raze the dead first.
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed from the dead.
It just happens that the two end time prophets hear a voce saying come up hither.
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed in the clouds
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed at the sound of the last trumpet
Revelation Chapter 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly.15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Corinthians Chapter 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
The two end time prophets are killed by the beast at the end of the great tribulation
　
confirmed by
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1 Thessalonians Chapter 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Revelation Chapter 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
It just happens that Jesus comes in the clouds.
It just happens that Jesus comes at the last trumpet.
It just happens that Jesus comes with the voice of the archangel..
It just happens that Jesus raze the dead first.
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed from the dead.
It just happens that the two end time prophets hear a voce saying come up hither.
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed in the clouds
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed at the sound of the last trumpet
Revelation Chapter 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly.15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Corinthians Chapter 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
The two end time prophets are killed by the beast at the end of the great tribulation
　
confirmed by
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
P
The timing of the "rapture" or whatever you want to call it is not clear in the scripture to me. It's not that I haven't studied the scriptures, it's simply that there are scriptures that seem to support pre-trib and and some that seem to support post-trib and some that seem to support some other views as well. I think most things in the scripture (things that have any practical significance) are pretty clear, but eschatology is an exception -- it just seems so riddled (and maybe it's meant to be that way, to an extent). Anyway I'd rather not know than "know" the wrong thing! 
It is a delusion, it’s just smoke and mirrors, designed by the devil to keep God’s children unprepared.
The pre-tribulation prophets have gathered a hand full of Bible verses together and bound them together with words of the flesh, and fear to make it sound like there’s going to be a rapture before the tribulation.
BUT nowhere in the Bible does a rapture take place before the great tribulation.
We are going to be tried and tested just like everybody else in the Bible.
Jesus comes at the end of the tribulation at the last trumpet.
1 Thessalonians Chapter 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
.
It just happens that Jesus comes in the clouds.
It just happens that Jesus comes at the last trumpet.
It just happens that Jesus comes with the voice of the archangel..
It just happens that Jesus raze the dead first.
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed from the dead.
It just happens that the two end time prophets hear a voce saying come up hither.
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed in the clouds
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed at the sound of the last trumpet
Revelation Chapter 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly.15 And the seventh angel sounded;
Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets
Corinthians Chapter 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
The two end time prophets are killed by the beast at the end of the great tribulation
confirmed by
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Speaking about partying in the last day:
Jer51:39. In their heat I WILL MAKE THEIR FEAST, and will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and SLEEP A PERPETUAL SLEEP,and not awake,said the Lord.
rev11:10 And they that dwell Upon the earh SHALL REJOICE OVER THEM,AND MAKE MERRYand shall send GIFTS ONE TO ANOTHER; BECAUSE THESE TWO PROPHETS TORMENTED THEM THAT DWELL ON THE EARH.
REV 11:13. AND THE SAME HOUR WAS THERE AN EARTH QUAKE-----
V15. And the SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven saying, THE KINGDOME OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF THE lORD,and his christ: And HE SHALL REIGN for ever and ever..
My question: what month does the world give gifts to one another?
""wakeup''.
Jer51:39. In their heat I WILL MAKE THEIR FEAST, and will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and SLEEP A PERPETUAL SLEEP,and not awake,said the Lord.
rev11:10 And they that dwell Upon the earh SHALL REJOICE OVER THEM,AND MAKE MERRYand shall send GIFTS ONE TO ANOTHER; BECAUSE THESE TWO PROPHETS TORMENTED THEM THAT DWELL ON THE EARH.
REV 11:13. AND THE SAME HOUR WAS THERE AN EARTH QUAKE-----
V15. And the SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven saying, THE KINGDOME OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF THE lORD,and his christ: And HE SHALL REIGN for ever and ever..
My question: what month does the world give gifts to one another?
""wakeup''.
W
Revelation Chapter 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly.15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Your not taking the Eight Thunders into account. In the above.
Your not taking the Eight Thunders into account. In the above.
P
I looked at this statement last night and mist it.
But the lord woke me up in this morning with a dream to answer this.
Wow “Thus saith the Lord”, like the lord just spoke through you.
You’re a liar.
The lord did not speak through you, you just made that up from your own mind, and said it was the lord speaking through you. “Thus saith the Lord”, shame on you.
This is how the false doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture started in the first place. “Thus saith the Lord”, and the lord never ever said it.
Jesus never said anywhere it’s a pre-tribulation rapture.
John never said anywhere it’s a pre-tribulation rapture
The disciples never said anywhere it’s a pre-tribulation rapture
The prophets of old testament never said anywhere it’s a pre-tribulation rapture.
You just made that up and said it was the Lord speaking through you.
You liar.
Lets have a look and see what the Bible says about liars.
Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Proverbs 12:19 The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue [is] but for a moment.
Jeremiah 7:8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.
1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets,
Acts 5:1-10 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,2 And kept back [part] of the price, his wife also being privy [to it], and brought a certain part, and laid [it] at the apostles' feet.3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried [him] out, and buried [him].7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband [are] at the door, and shall carry thee out.10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying [her] forth, buried [her] by her husband.
Look what happened to Ananias, and Sapphira his wife that lied to the Holy Ghost in Peter.
You have crossed the line here, and now you have been busted.
You lied in Gods name.
You said “Thus saith the Lord”, But LORD never said it.
But the lord woke me up in this morning with a dream to answer this.
Wow “Thus saith the Lord”, like the lord just spoke through you.
You’re a liar.
The lord did not speak through you, you just made that up from your own mind, and said it was the lord speaking through you. “Thus saith the Lord”, shame on you.
This is how the false doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture started in the first place. “Thus saith the Lord”, and the lord never ever said it.
Jesus never said anywhere it’s a pre-tribulation rapture.
John never said anywhere it’s a pre-tribulation rapture
The disciples never said anywhere it’s a pre-tribulation rapture
The prophets of old testament never said anywhere it’s a pre-tribulation rapture.
You just made that up and said it was the Lord speaking through you.
You liar.
Lets have a look and see what the Bible says about liars.
Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Proverbs 12:19 The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue [is] but for a moment.
Jeremiah 7:8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.
1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets,
Acts 5:1-10 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,2 And kept back [part] of the price, his wife also being privy [to it], and brought a certain part, and laid [it] at the apostles' feet.3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried [him] out, and buried [him].7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband [are] at the door, and shall carry thee out.10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying [her] forth, buried [her] by her husband.
Look what happened to Ananias, and Sapphira his wife that lied to the Holy Ghost in Peter.
You have crossed the line here, and now you have been busted.
You lied in Gods name.
You said “Thus saith the Lord”, But LORD never said it.
Actually, scripture does not say that there is not a pre tribulation rapture. Scripture does not say when we will be caught away, in relation to the tribulation. It is recorded in scripture that there are members of His bride in heaven before He returns to rule and reign on the earth for a thousand years, which comes imediately after the tribulation is over. And that He comes back with the saints.
P
“Actually, scripture does not say that there is not a pre tribulation rapture”
NO the scripture does say there is NO pre-tribulation rapture, because it’s a post tribulation rapture.
And a post tribulation rapture automatically says there is NO pre-tribulation rapture.
“Scripture does not say when we will be caught away, in relation to the tribulation”
YES it does Rv11 at the sound of the last trumpet, at the end of the tribulation. The two end time prophets are killed by the beast at the end of the great tribulation and are razed from the dead.
“It is recorded in scripture that there are members of His bride in heaven before He returns to rule and reign on the earth for a thousand years,”
Now that bit you have got wright.
After the tribulation the wrath of god is poured out
Rv15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. There we are standing on the sea of glass in heaven after the tribulation.
Then we return to rule and reign on the earth for a thousand years,
Rv16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
NO the scripture does say there is NO pre-tribulation rapture, because it’s a post tribulation rapture.
And a post tribulation rapture automatically says there is NO pre-tribulation rapture.
“Scripture does not say when we will be caught away, in relation to the tribulation”
YES it does Rv11 at the sound of the last trumpet, at the end of the tribulation. The two end time prophets are killed by the beast at the end of the great tribulation and are razed from the dead.
“It is recorded in scripture that there are members of His bride in heaven before He returns to rule and reign on the earth for a thousand years,”
Now that bit you have got wright.
After the tribulation the wrath of god is poured out
Rv15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. There we are standing on the sea of glass in heaven after the tribulation.
Then we return to rule and reign on the earth for a thousand years,
Rv16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
It is not written when we are caught up to be with Him. That there will be a trump of God, but is that the last trump? Maybe not.
There are way too many scenes in heaven when there is a great multitude before the Lamb and the throne. And I am not talking about the souls who were under the throne.
Personally, I tend to lean toward a mid tribulation catching away. Sometime before the wrath of God is poured out on the earth.
You are welcome to your belief, just don't expect me to believe it just because you say it.
In Christ.
There are way too many scenes in heaven when there is a great multitude before the Lamb and the throne. And I am not talking about the souls who were under the throne.
Personally, I tend to lean toward a mid tribulation catching away. Sometime before the wrath of God is poured out on the earth.
You are welcome to your belief, just don't expect me to believe it just because you say it.
In Christ.