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so why do you keep avoiding answering my question about 1thes 4:13-18 not being the same as the last judgement Because it says that the ones that are caught up in the clouds with Jesus will be with Him forever. if 1 Thes . 4 says this then according to your belief even the lost if both(the lost and saved) are raised at the same time in 1 Thes. 4 then the lost also goes up to Christ to be with Him ever.
1th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:1th 4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
you avoid the truth within the scriptures and keep accusing me of false teaching I amn showing you what the scriptures says,
S
You do worship Him in Spirit and truth and don't let anyone talk you out of it.
The Holy Spirit in us witnesses the truth. When the scriptures are presented in Spirit and truth, our heart magnifies Christ and worship toward God. Those that live in doctrine and knowledge without the witness of the Holy Spirit have no testimony of the truth. Those that worship God must do so in Spirit and truth / John 4:23,24. These are the ones that God is seeking. True worship does not involve any doctrine or knowledge that does despite to or insults the Spirit of grace / Heb 10:29. Those that believe they can lose salvation and teach others the same, do insult to the Spirit of grace and the blood of Christ.
1Pt 1:1-10
1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again (born again) unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4To an inheritance incorruptible (can't perish), and undefiled (unsoiled), and that fadeth not away, (can't be extinquished or laid to waste) reserved in heaven for you, (John 14:2,3)
5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:'
In verse 4 we have been born again (with the new man or inner man) by the resurrection of Christ to an inheritance that can not perish that is unsoiled by the old sin nature and the flesh and cannot be extinguished or laid to waste. The outward man that is perishing and is corrupted can not effect it in any way and the inner man, that is being renewed and strengthened by the Spirit of grace, will put on incorruption when Christ comes back for His church and bride / 2Cor 4:16, Eph 3:16, 1Cor 15:53,54. What God has given the believer through the new birth (as the one new man) is incorruptible, undefiled and can not fade away. This is the new man that will be raptured by Christ before the tribulation and can not be subject o wrath of condemnation.
The Holy Spirit in us witnesses the truth. When the scriptures are presented in Spirit and truth, our heart magnifies Christ and worship toward God. Those that live in doctrine and knowledge without the witness of the Holy Spirit have no testimony of the truth. Those that worship God must do so in Spirit and truth / John 4:23,24. These are the ones that God is seeking. True worship does not involve any doctrine or knowledge that does despite to or insults the Spirit of grace / Heb 10:29. Those that believe they can lose salvation and teach others the same, do insult to the Spirit of grace and the blood of Christ.
1Pt 1:1-10
1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again (born again) unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4To an inheritance incorruptible (can't perish), and undefiled (unsoiled), and that fadeth not away, (can't be extinquished or laid to waste) reserved in heaven for you, (John 14:2,3)
5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:'
In verse 4 we have been born again (with the new man or inner man) by the resurrection of Christ to an inheritance that can not perish that is unsoiled by the old sin nature and the flesh and cannot be extinguished or laid to waste. The outward man that is perishing and is corrupted can not effect it in any way and the inner man, that is being renewed and strengthened by the Spirit of grace, will put on incorruption when Christ comes back for His church and bride / 2Cor 4:16, Eph 3:16, 1Cor 15:53,54. What God has given the believer through the new birth (as the one new man) is incorruptible, undefiled and can not fade away. This is the new man that will be raptured by Christ before the tribulation and can not be subject o wrath of condemnation.
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I think alot of you thaddaeus,,
I've just noticed you have a problem with keeping up with the whole post folx have written,So I'll help you out and repost the part of my previous post you seem to have missed.
(To Mahoganysnail)........................
It's impossible to inguage in a battle of wits with unarmed people ,I refuse to cast anymore pearls befor swine,And suggest you do the same,Unless you feel God is calling you to do this.
I've Found you a link to help further your understanding of the Scriptures as a whole,If you trust me please go to this link,these are the Origional foot notes that were used to translate the Hebrew to the greek then finally to the english,the books are called the Massorahtic texts,Massorah means "to transfer from my mind to yours" in hebrew,therefor leaving no mistake in translation or interpretation,this is the book that most of the comentators and scollars that you quote used to get their understanding,And I hope you get the same blessing that they recieved.
http://www.teachittome.com/seforim2/...massorah_6.pdf
God bless you my friend,another useful link is http://philologos.org/online.htm ebooks.oe inparticular is Biblical mathematics by E.W Bullinger and Number in scripture by the same author.
Also have some good books by Ginzberg......
E.W. Bullinger
The Witness of the Stars
Number in ScriptureTen Sermons on the Second Advent
The ApocalypseHow to Enjoy the BibleThings to ComeThe Rich Man and Lazarus: An Intermediate State? Many others.......
I made this easy for you,All you have to do is click on a title and poof it shows up,right on the page,
I've given YOU the tools,a hammer, nails, brick,mortar,a trowel,anything you need to build your house up (to Definition-Christ,That was Symbolic,just incase you missed that).....
I cant build it for you, but you have NOW the tools,What you choose to do with them is between You and God.
Just incase you think that the massorah is the word of Man I suggest you read it first b4 jumping to conclusions and discounting it because I posted it.it is the very foundation of the Hebrew cannon,I searched many years for a version of this online inorder to show it to other people,that are willing to check out translations for themselvs,I have it in written form and have had for about 10 years now,and it seals the meaning of the chapters and very words in every sentence
leaving no chance of misinterpretation or desception.
BTW,its what they used to translate the 1570 geniva bible and later the 1611 KJV.
For some general info for free the 1570 version was more popular with protestants pre reformation era,but after the last inquisition it was banned by the catholic church in favor of the 1611 version with the apocryphal books.The last Ganeva bible was printed in 1700 something.
Take that as you will.
HOLLA!!!!!!!!!!
I've just noticed you have a problem with keeping up with the whole post folx have written,So I'll help you out and repost the part of my previous post you seem to have missed.
(To Mahoganysnail)........................
It's impossible to inguage in a battle of wits with unarmed people ,I refuse to cast anymore pearls befor swine,And suggest you do the same,Unless you feel God is calling you to do this.
I've Found you a link to help further your understanding of the Scriptures as a whole,If you trust me please go to this link,these are the Origional foot notes that were used to translate the Hebrew to the greek then finally to the english,the books are called the Massorahtic texts,Massorah means "to transfer from my mind to yours" in hebrew,therefor leaving no mistake in translation or interpretation,this is the book that most of the comentators and scollars that you quote used to get their understanding,And I hope you get the same blessing that they recieved.
http://www.teachittome.com/seforim2/...massorah_6.pdf
God bless you my friend,another useful link is http://philologos.org/online.htm ebooks.oe inparticular is Biblical mathematics by E.W Bullinger and Number in scripture by the same author.
Also have some good books by Ginzberg......
Louis Ginzberg
The Legends of the Jews
The Legends of the Jews
E.W. Bullinger
The Witness of the Stars
Number in ScriptureTen Sermons on the Second Advent
The ApocalypseHow to Enjoy the BibleThings to ComeThe Rich Man and Lazarus: An Intermediate State? Many others.......
I made this easy for you,All you have to do is click on a title and poof it shows up,right on the page,
I've given YOU the tools,a hammer, nails, brick,mortar,a trowel,anything you need to build your house up (to Definition-Christ,That was Symbolic,just incase you missed that).....
I cant build it for you, but you have NOW the tools,What you choose to do with them is between You and God.
Just incase you think that the massorah is the word of Man I suggest you read it first b4 jumping to conclusions and discounting it because I posted it.it is the very foundation of the Hebrew cannon,I searched many years for a version of this online inorder to show it to other people,that are willing to check out translations for themselvs,I have it in written form and have had for about 10 years now,and it seals the meaning of the chapters and very words in every sentence
leaving no chance of misinterpretation or desception.
BTW,its what they used to translate the 1570 geniva bible and later the 1611 KJV.
For some general info for free the 1570 version was more popular with protestants pre reformation era,but after the last inquisition it was banned by the catholic church in favor of the 1611 version with the apocryphal books.The last Ganeva bible was printed in 1700 something.
Take that as you will.
HOLLA!!!!!!!!!!
Being misinformed, believing incorrectly ect... is not worshiping false doctrine. Refusing to hear the truth because it doesn't fit into what you want to believe is worshiping a false doctrine. Purposely blinding yourself to the truth of scripture because you would rather believe a lie instead of God is worshiping a false doctrine. Simply being mistaking is not worshiping a false doctrine, it is simply being mistaken. See what I am saying imoss?
O
An eye for an eye, a link for a link!
http://gracethrufaith.com/ikvot-hamashiach/confirming-the-sequence-of-end-times-events/
Oh and whether one believes in it or not doesn't matter. When it happens, it happens - whether it is pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib. I prefer the pre-trib based on that article's explanation. The other "tribs" simply aren't able to provide a satisfactory sequence, at least for me anyway.
http://gracethrufaith.com/ikvot-hamashiach/confirming-the-sequence-of-end-times-events/
Oh and whether one believes in it or not doesn't matter. When it happens, it happens - whether it is pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib. I prefer the pre-trib based on that article's explanation. The other "tribs" simply aren't able to provide a satisfactory sequence, at least for me anyway.
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Here is what scripture tells us the sequence will be.
Jesus returns after the tribulation as He is returning He will resurrect the just and translate the living saints. He will then destroy the wicked, while sparing and renewing the Jewish nation that has not bowed to the anti christ. Then He will set up His Millennial Kingdom with the resurrected and ''raptured'' saint ruling with Him as kings and priests, while the restored Jews enter in to the Millennium in mortal bodies and repopulate the earth.
We should conform our beliefs to fit scripture not reject God's word.
Jesus returns after the tribulation as He is returning He will resurrect the just and translate the living saints. He will then destroy the wicked, while sparing and renewing the Jewish nation that has not bowed to the anti christ. Then He will set up His Millennial Kingdom with the resurrected and ''raptured'' saint ruling with Him as kings and priests, while the restored Jews enter in to the Millennium in mortal bodies and repopulate the earth.
We should conform our beliefs to fit scripture not reject God's word.
M
He will be released from his cage, and leash out like an angry beast. He will reign on earth until it is destroyed. It will NOT be a pretty sight. The rapture will save real Christians and leave the rest of the world in Satan's wrath to do as he pleases.
My heart breaks for those who will have to feel the wrath of Satan. Give nothing but forgiveness and sympathy, for he is evil and is broken with those. Satan was broken when Jesus died, because Jesus did not get mad, he did not retaliate, he did not help himself out of the situation he was in. Satan was caged then and there from his defeat against Jesus. He wanted Jesus to display evil characteristics and he did not. Jesus is not tortured by the snake, and neither shall we be, for Jesus is in our hearts, and will be there for eternity.
GIVE NOTHING BUT SYMPATHY FOR HIM, FOR HE KNOWS NOT WHAT HE DOES.
My heart breaks for those who will have to feel the wrath of Satan. Give nothing but forgiveness and sympathy, for he is evil and is broken with those. Satan was broken when Jesus died, because Jesus did not get mad, he did not retaliate, he did not help himself out of the situation he was in. Satan was caged then and there from his defeat against Jesus. He wanted Jesus to display evil characteristics and he did not. Jesus is not tortured by the snake, and neither shall we be, for Jesus is in our hearts, and will be there for eternity.
GIVE NOTHING BUT SYMPATHY FOR HIM, FOR HE KNOWS NOT WHAT HE DOES.
That's your interpretation of the Scriptures. 
As I said and as you quoted, I prefer that prophecy scholar's explanation.
As I said and as you quoted, I prefer that prophecy scholar's explanation.
#2 This is the explanation of the most decorated prophecy scholar of all time John the Revlator as he taught it to his most priced disciples/students Polycarp, and Irenaeus. Study it out for yourself.