I do not know who you claim to be negative, I thank God that I am worthy to suffer for Christ. The joy of the Lord is my strength, and I do look forward to the glorious appearing of Jesus. However I also undettsand that scripture plainly teaches that Christ comes back to earth after the tribulation and that is when those who are alive and remain will receive their immortal bodies, not a moment before. To believe God and trust in Him does not = gloom or doom.
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the first resurrection in the Bible is for the tribulation saints
Re 20:4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.Re 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
thus we understand :
Mt 19:30But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
But in rev 19 the Bride/ Church is made ready even with her white linen. Before the first resurrection, explain this if ye can please.
Re 19:7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.Re 19:8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.Re 19:9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
then we have the great white throne judgement. you tell me who is the bride, who is the wedding party. the bride could not be called up with the wedding party, she would need to be ready before the wedding party shows up or at least while they are coming in . so you tell us how it works. you go against scripture and tell us that the bride is not ready when the wedding party is called up, I just showed you scripture you argue against them. I just giving you scripture as they are written. not adding to or taking away. the rapture is not a resurrection, for a resurrection is raising of the dead 1 thes . 4:13-18 says that those that are asleep in Christ, and we which remain alive will be taken up also and Jesus never comes to earth in these verses but rather we go up to Him, see even those that He raises in thes , don't walk around and let people see them but rather straight from the grave to the arms of the Bridegroom.
1th 4:13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.1th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.1th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.1th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:1th 4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.1th 4:18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
This verse prove POST TRIB seeing as how the 1st resurrection occurs after the tribulation has finished.
This has nothing to do with the rapture at all
This scripture proves nothing at all.
This verse also proves post trib, seeing as how verse 15 tells us that the resurrection and the catching away mentioned in verse 16 and 17 occur at the coming of Christ which according to Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 is immediately after the Tribulation
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This has nothing to do with the rapture at all
This scripture proves nothing at all.
This verse also proves post trib, seeing as how verse 15 tells us that the resurrection and the catching away mentioned in verse 16 and 17 occur at the coming of Christ which according to Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 is immediately after the Tribulation
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we are not in the great tribulation. no way no how, so yeah they are christians all around suffering , but there are also christians around prospering also, and where is the mark of the beast where those faithful to God can't buy anything, have you suffered hungry for your belief No NO NO. come on you can't possible compare the suffering of some to the great tribulation where they ask the mountains to fall on them so they don't have to face God !!!!!!!!!
Thaddaeus,
So your answer would have to be no, correct? MahoganySnail and watchmen would have to answer yes, whether they died before or went through the tribulation, correct? Are you saying, according to (Rev 20:4-6), that the first resurrection only applies to the tribulation saints which takes place after the tribulation? If that is true, then what do you call the resurrection of those that are dead in Christ that go up in the rapture, before the tribulation (7 years earlier) according to (1Thes 4:14-18)? Could the first resurrection involve the church (the bride of Christ) that went up before the tribulation and also those saints that later went up after the tribulation, that were not part of the church (the bride of Christ)? The NT saints includes all those that believed upon Christ from the cross unto the time of the great tribulation (which is the church age). If they are resurrected before the tribulation, they must be part of the first resurrection since the resurrection of Christ. We have two advents that make up the first resurrection that involve the church saints and the tribulation saints. If that is not true what do you call the resurrection of the dead in Christ that takes place before the tribulation?
So your answer would have to be no, correct? MahoganySnail and watchmen would have to answer yes, whether they died before or went through the tribulation, correct? Are you saying, according to (Rev 20:4-6), that the first resurrection only applies to the tribulation saints which takes place after the tribulation? If that is true, then what do you call the resurrection of those that are dead in Christ that go up in the rapture, before the tribulation (7 years earlier) according to (1Thes 4:14-18)? Could the first resurrection involve the church (the bride of Christ) that went up before the tribulation and also those saints that later went up after the tribulation, that were not part of the church (the bride of Christ)? The NT saints includes all those that believed upon Christ from the cross unto the time of the great tribulation (which is the church age). If they are resurrected before the tribulation, they must be part of the first resurrection since the resurrection of Christ. We have two advents that make up the first resurrection that involve the church saints and the tribulation saints. If that is not true what do you call the resurrection of the dead in Christ that takes place before the tribulation?
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The father of lies started in the garden and wont stop until he is stopped by christ-its inevitible that his butt is gonna be whipped so he will do all that he can to ensure that he isnt the only one who will burn-thats his purpose-to prowl around like a lion waiting to munch on stuff
Jesus's return is inevitible but when only the father knows no one else but we can be sure that we will know when he does and it will be awsome
Jesus's return is inevitible but when only the father knows no one else but we can be sure that we will know when he does and it will be awsome
The danger I see is that pre-trib believers will not realise when they are in the tribulation.
wars, economic crisis, swine flu and other diseases, catastrophic tsunamis, hurricanes, bush fires, earthquakes... Will you deny it because you haven't been raptured yet.? If you aren't prepared to go through it, you wont' recognise when it is actually here.
wars, economic crisis, swine flu and other diseases, catastrophic tsunamis, hurricanes, bush fires, earthquakes... Will you deny it because you haven't been raptured yet.? If you aren't prepared to go through it, you wont' recognise when it is actually here.
you need to study your History a little better dude the jews are the ones that suffered the holcaust. there will be only one rapture as far as I know maybe you know of more , and my point was that this crisis as you would referr as a crisis( i mean every time I go out to eat I still have to wait in line) to is nothing compared with what they will suffer though the tribulation dude come on.
Hey dude again I will direct you to scriptures, if you think we are in the great tribulation please look at what the Bible says;
Mt 24:21For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Re 7:14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
yeah we will have trials and tribulation, while we are here, but nothing compared to as what will be experience during The Great tribulation, I really can't belive that someone would compare this to the great tribulation, Again God has inspired in His word to referr to it as the great tribulation far above what any has experienced on earth before, Go take it up with Him.
Joh 16:33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have TRIBULATION: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
just because we have tribulation here doesn't mean that we are in the midst of the great tribulation, this is crazy talk
Mt 24:21For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Re 7:14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
yeah we will have trials and tribulation, while we are here, but nothing compared to as what will be experience during The Great tribulation, I really can't belive that someone would compare this to the great tribulation, Again God has inspired in His word to referr to it as the great tribulation far above what any has experienced on earth before, Go take it up with Him.
Joh 16:33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have TRIBULATION: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
just because we have tribulation here doesn't mean that we are in the midst of the great tribulation, this is crazy talk
you know I never claimed to know everything I am just giving you what the scriptures have said . you will have to take this up with the one that inspired the writers to write what we read . that is not my place. but in Rev it is clear that. it is during rev we learn about people taking the make of the beast so clearly the resurrection in rev 20:5 is speaking of the Great tribulation saints , and it clearly says that the other dead was raised after the 1000 yr reign, we can't change scripture , we can't pick and choose what we want to preach me must preach the truth if we say that all dead people it will raised on the same day this is clearly not the truth, here are the scriptures ONCE AGAIN
Re 20:4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.Re 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
see there was other resurrection before rev 20:5 Jesus was resurrected. there others resurrected shorty after Jesus was .
Mt 27:52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,Mt 27:53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
the new testament saints according to scripture won't be going up in the first tribulation, rev 20, speaks of those that did not take the mark of the beast, clearly a temptation only during the Great tribulation and the rest of the dead will be raised after the 1000 yr. reign. so my answer that to contradict scriptures would have to be no I am not going up in the first resurrection, but neithe r are the NT saints either , i don't understand why you guys won't to say that the Bible doesn't mean what it says
Re 20:4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.Re 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
but before this the Bride? Church is ready with her white linen already>
Re 19:7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.Re 19:8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. so how did the bride get her white linen if the nt saints had not been judged yet
Re 20:4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.Re 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
but before this the Bride? Church is ready with her white linen already>
Re 19:7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.Re 19:8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. so how did the bride get her white linen if the nt saints had not been judged yet
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Millions of holocaust victims were not Jews.
Approximately 3 million Christians total were murdered by the Nazis. About half the number of Jews killed.
But I'm curious, why do you think God will rapture the church before the great tribulation, and so far in history has raptured no Christians who have gone through tribulation, not even in the early centuaries of the persecution by the Romans, what is His purpose?
Approximately 3 million Christians total were murdered by the Nazis. About half the number of Jews killed.
But I'm curious, why do you think God will rapture the church before the great tribulation, and so far in history has raptured no Christians who have gone through tribulation, not even in the early centuaries of the persecution by the Romans, what is His purpose?
I don't know about you guys, but I get my theology from the Left Behind series. 
Groundhog, 'You are truly LEFT of the center and BEHIND in much of your understanding about grace and truth, and that is SERIOUS! What do you think of that?