Rapture= false teaching

[Thaddaeus]

I came across some scriptures, while reading these scriptures in my message Sunday Morning. I think they agree with a pre-trib rapture just thought i would share them with you all. In rev chapter 20 it gives some details about the first resurrection, when the Revelations saints are raised then it talks about the white throne judgement, where the saved are judged by their works not for salvation but for their rewards. but if we back up a Chapter we read :

Re 19:7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.Re 19:8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.Re 19:9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
so the note here is that the Bride/ Church is ready even in Her clean and white linen , which means that the Bride is in heaven and has received her white linen before the first resurrection, so how did the Church / the Bride get there before the first resurrection except for a pre-trib or to say the least a mid-trid rapture before the revelation saints are resurrected. 1 thes 4:13-18 is not the first resurrectoin or on the last day for it is only for those that are asleep in Christ, the Church/the bride. so it is not a false teaching

 

[MahogonySnail]

If it is not a false teachign can we find any evidence for it before the 1800's? I'd be interested to know. If we can't, then we can't exactly blame Catholics for introducing new doctrines into the church during the middle ages, without being hypocrites for believing in and doing the same thing.

 

[Baptistrw]

If it is not a false teachign can we find any evidence for it before the 1800's? I'd be interested to know. If we can't, then we can't exactly blame Catholics for introducing new doctrines into the church during the middle ages, without being hypocrites for believing in and doing the same thing.

Do you believe God reveals everything at one time? Did God reveal to the OT prophets everything that would happen in a way that they would understand?

 

[MahogonySnail]

Do you believe God reveals everything at one time? Did God reveal to the OT prophets everything that would happen in a way that they would understand?

Are you proposing a development of doctrine idea? How is that different to the Catholic belief in development of doctrine? Or likewise in Pentecostalism?

I personally believe God revealed everything there was to know on such fundamental doctrines in the Scriptures. Not in the 1800's. Further revelation in fundamental major doctrines such as the return of Christ and the timing of the rapture has ceased since the time of the apostles. Given that, if I cannot trace this doctrine back far enough to the time of the apostles and when Scripture was written, the chances that it is or was a fundamental doctrine, is very slim. In contrast to peoples claims that a post-trib belief is a heretical doctrine, I find more evidence for the contrary. Did Luther believe in it, did Calvin believe in it? I don't know much about Baptists, but was it always a fundamental doctrine in Baptist theology since the time of Christ? If so is there any hard proof for it , or is it allegation?

I guess I'm just a little confused because you are Baptist right and don't believe in things which would otherwise be pentecostal things, yet.. from what I've read this doctrine about pre-trib rapture , came from prophetic visions of a young lady in the catholic apostolic church (if i remember rightly), and cannot be traced back through history to the time of the apostles. It puzzles me why you believe in it. Baptists I know are quite staunch post-tribbers. Believe what you like, I used to believe in a pre-trib rapture given I have had much exposure to Pentecostal churches, that was the first doctrine I ever knew on the subject. Until I realised how relatively new to Christianity that doctrine actually is.

 

[MahogonySnail]

I have swayed between pre-trib and post trib views many times. Scripture alone does not shed much light on this issue, as both views may be supported by Scripture.

So I personally look to Christian history. I cannot find a hint of it in early church writings. (actually there may be one vague reference somewhere). Catholics and other apostolic churches don't believe in it. I don't think Luther or Calvin believed in it. Well there's a whole list of Christian men and women of note who didnt believe in it or make any reference to it. Some like Corrie Ten Boom have actually warned of the dangers of a pre-trib rapture, causing christians to be unprepared for
And that's coming from someone who has been through tribulation, the Nazi concentration camps in WW2. Or the underground churches in China which she highlights..suggest reading:
http://endtimepilgrim.org/corrie.htm

There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this. These are the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days. Most of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution.

It is terribly naive and ignorant of the current situation , to sit on comfy chairs and promote a pre-trib rapture view labelling post-trib as heretical, that God would keep us safe from end-times suffering, when so many Christian are already going through much suffering right now. That is THEIR tribulation buddy. And God aint whisking them up to the sky.

It's a bit of a long shot to call post-trib belief heretical. I'd say beyond any doubt, it is the "default" christian viewpoint of what happens in the end times believed by far in the majority of Christians throughout the centuaries. Sure, some of these fell into a mid-tribulation view, but a very specific doctrine of a pre-trib rapture is hard to come by in Christian history. Unless you can find some I'd be interested to know.

Because let's face it, what better way to get a false doctrine out than make books and movies about it. Tim Layahe, left behind series. These were truly fictional works intended to sway a mass audience. At the time at my pentecostal church, we paid $15 to go and see it, everyone saw it. It only lasted 45 minutes. What a complete rip off.

 

[CIR22]

Amen, we have the hope and the promise we won't face the wrath of the trip.

The whole point of the Tribulation of 7 years, is to punish those who refused to believe in the Gospel but worshiped the ways of Satan instead of Jesus.

 

[Thaddaeus]

The whole point of the Tribulation of 7 years, is to punish those who refused to believe in the Gospel but worshiped the ways of Satan instead of Jesus.

no actually if you think about it the ones that take the mark of the beast will be the only ones that will eat. so I think the ones that are faithful to God are the ones that will suffer in the tribulation period not the ones that rejected him

 

[watchmen]

Read Revelation 6 when the wrath of God is poured out upon mankind. Why would God subject His Church ( a bride without blemish ) such horrible wrath?

If the church must go through the tribulation, where is the imminency of Christ's return?

You need to read I and II Thessalonians instead of spreading your heresy on this site.

Heresy????? what a joke the only ''heresy'' in this thread is that there will be some sort of pretrib rapture. I have read 2nd Thess and it tells us that the 2nd coming and the rapture are on the very same day and that day comes after the anti christ has been revealed.

 

[watchmen]

The whole point of the Tribulation of 7 years, is to punish those who refused to believe in the Gospel but worshiped the ways of Satan instead of Jesus.

This belief did not come from scripture. The wicked will be punished for all eternity. There is no reason for God to portion 7 years out to punish them.

 

[watchmen]

no actually if you think about it the ones that take the mark of the beast will be the only ones that will eat. so I think the ones that are faithful to God are the ones that will suffer in the tribulation period not the ones that rejected him

This coming from a pretribber? You almost got it, keep digging.

 

[BLC]

Those that are faithful to God during the (7) year tribulation period are the converted Jews and those that have believed their report about the Lamb of God. The believers that believed upon Christ during the church age will be gone and will not be part of the tribulation because of God's amazing grace. Those that were alive when Christ comes for them will be raptured and those that are dead in Christ will be caught up with them in the clouds of the air and forever more be with the Lord. No tribulation for those saints because they are going up!

 

[watchmen]

Those that are faithful to God during the (7) year tribulation period are the converted Jews and those that have believed their report about the Lamb of God. The believers that believed upon Christ during the church age will be gone and will not be part of the tribulation because of God's amazing grace. Those that were alive when Christ comes for them will be raptured and those that are dead in Christ will be caught up with them in the clouds of the air and forever more be with the Lord. No tribulation for those saints because they are going up!

This entire statement is false teaching not found in scripture

 

[BLC]

'I'm going up, Oh I'm going up,
I'm going up in the first resurrection'

'I'm going up, Oh I'm going up,
I'm going up to be with the Lord'

Our great God who has delivered us from the wrath to come. To the praise of the glory of His grace. The dead in Christ shall rise first and those that remain shall be caught up together.

'I'm going up, Oh I'm going up,
I'm going up in the first resurrection'

'I'm going up, Oh I'm going up,
I'm going up to be with the Lord'

 

[Thaddaeus]

This coming from a pretribber? You almost got it, keep digging.

the tribulation saints that is

 

[BLC]

the tribulation saints that is

Thaddaeus,

Are you going up in the first resurrection with all the NT saints?

 

[MahogonySnail]

Are you pre-trib bible bashers completely ignorant, or naive? Don't you know that even today there are saints in tribulation in many parts of the world. How many of those has God raptured? Please tell us. Do you think yourself better than they? I doubt you could last one day in the conditions they suffer in.

 

[BLC]

Are you pre-trib bible bashers completely ignorant, or naive? Don't you know that even today there are saints in tribulation in many parts of the world. How many of those has God raptured? Please tell us. Do you think yourself better than they? I doubt you could last one day in the conditions they suffer in.

Are we a little sensitive about something? Do you think that God is unjust and perhaps a respecter of persons? Are you having a problem with the truth and reconciling it with what might really take place in the will of God. Don't like the truth of that little song? You think I am arrogant because I love the truth and won't meddle with them that like to change it!

 

[MahogonySnail]

God is no respector of persons, exactly! that is why I question your views, given God is not rapturing the saints who are in tribulation right now on this earth, so what makes you think he'll rapture you? Just because you believe in the Left Behind movies? Just because you're in the USA?
Who are you kidding, really. Do you really think you are that special that God is going to rapture you before the tribulation,
and worth more than the lives of Indians or Chinese or Sudanese who are in tribulation at this very moment? How many christians did God rapture during WW2, in nazi concentration camps and elsewhere?

I do hope for the churches sake it is raptured before the tribulation, I really do. But don't you know that rapture basically means death anyway, whether pre or mid or post trib. So christians die one way or another.

 

[watchmen]

Are we a little sensitive about something? Do you think that God is unjust and perhaps a respecter of persons? Are you having a problem with the truth !

You obviously do. You believe God is an unjust respecter of persons, or else why would He allow the Chinese Christians to suffer, or the African Christians to be persecuted or all the Apostles to be martyred, yet you are too good to suffer for the same Christ that suffered for you ''according to your pretrib doctrine that is''

 

[BLC]

You sound so gloom and doom. We are to be looking up and looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ. The apostle John said Lord come quickly. Jesus said that He would come in the same manner that He had left. We are to be occupied with Him until He come. When He comes our joy will be full. We look forward to His glorious appearing. Those that have suffered with Christ shall also reign with Him. We desire to know Him and the fellowship of His sufferings. What in the world are you so negative about? We rejoice in the truth that has set us free. We are thankful in everything. There is no joy for the bride of Christ in going through the great tribulation. You are wrong about rapture and you need to humble yourself so that you can receive grace and be free to believe the truth and have fellowship with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ.