RAPTURE, PRE OR POST?

[2knowhim]

These are not records of the second coming and the two records are the same - told by Luke and John. Jesus showed himself to them before he ascended. In fact in John Jesus goes further to say - If I will that he tarry till I come what is that to thee? In other words "if he lives till I come what is that to thee?" Till he comes. . . . .

No, they are not the same, one was to His disciples, the other where two men on the road of Emmaus.

But that's not the point. The point is He told His disciples He would come before they had a chance to go over all the cities of Israel preaching that The kingdom of Heaven was at hand.

And He did. That is so obvious from the scriptures I posted.

The Second coming is a man made doctrine, there is no such thing.

He appears to the one who is looking for Him a second time, (His first was in the flesh to be a sacrifice for our sins) (The second time is without sin unto our Salvation) and without observation to the world it is not a world -wide event, but an individual coming to the one with a seeking Heart.

And as far as Jesus showing Himself before His ascension, that is not correct.

He told Mary not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended, He told Thomas touch me.
He had already ascended.

Your talking about when they seen Him taken up in the Clouds, let me ask you something, do you really believe that they were seeing a literal, physical ascension? And that anybody that may have passed by could have seen it? You would also be incorrect, They saw by and in The Spirit. The same way we see Him today in His Coming. The world cannot see Him, but we should, don't you realize that?

Many of us have experience this Coming, NOT THE WORLD, But us His body, I lie not, The Spirit is my witness.

The question is Why do you still stand gazing up in the heavens expecting to see Him physically return?

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

No, they are not the same, one was to His disciples, the other where two men on the road of Emmaus.

But that's not the point. The point is He told His disciples He would come before they had a chance to go over all the cities of Israel preaching that The kingdom of Heaven was at hand.

And He did. That is so obvious from the scriptures I posted.

The Second coming is a man made doctrine, there is no such thing.

He appears to the one who is looking for Him a second time, (His first was in the flesh to be a sacrifice for our sins) (The second time is without sin unto our Salvation) and without observation to the world it is not a world -wide event, but an individual coming to the one with a seeking Heart.

And as far as Jesus showing Himself before His ascension, that is not correct.

He told Mary not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended, He told Thomas touch me.
He had already ascended.

Your talking about when they seen Him taken up in the Clouds, let me ask you something, do you really believe that they were seeing a literal, physical ascension? And that anybody that may have passed by could have seen it? You would also be incorrect, They saw by and in The Spirit. The same way we see Him today in His Coming. The world cannot see Him, but we should, don't you realize that?

Many of us have experience this Coming, NOT THE WORLD, But us His body, I lie not, The Spirit is my witness.

The question is Why do you still stand gazing up in the heavens expecting to see Him physically return?

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the law of Moses and in the prophets and in the psalms concerning me . . .Then opened he their understanding . . . .(of what he told them in John 16:17 that they didn't understand . . .What is this that he saith unto us A little while and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while and ye shall see me and Because I go to the Father?) that they might understand the scriptures, . . .Thus it is written and thus it behoved Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day:. . . And ye are witnesses of these things. Witnesses of what - the resurrection and ascension.

Acts 1:9,11b And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. . . . this same Jesus which is taken up (ascension) from you into heaven shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Sorta makes ya think of 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first; Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[shroom2]

...Joh 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Here is another appearing

Luk 24:13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
Luk 24:14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.

Luk 24:15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
Luk 24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.


Wake up People His appearing's Are Many, and His comings, Continuous.

Those events happened after he was resurrected, before he ascended. After he ascended:

Acts 1:11) Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

That has not happened yet.

 

[shroom2]

...The Second coming is a man made doctrine, there is no such thing...

Your belief contradicts God's word. Here is the scripture YOU posted which contradicts your erroneous belief.
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

The question is Why do you still stand gazing up in the heavens expecting to see Him physically return?

Again:

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

That has not happened yet. But it will.

 

[shroom2]

He said Christ had not Returned those are his words, not mine.

I didn't twist anything.

You said that I said Jesus lied. I did not say that. You twisted my words.

Also, Christ has not yet returned. That event is still future.

 

[peterT]

He said Christ had not Returned those are his words, not mine.

I didn't twist anything.

Yes you did twist his words.
He was talking about Christs second coming, and you twisted it to say he never rose from the dead. And you knew what he was talking about

We have Christians running around saying; the resurrection has already passed in 70AD.

And they have their new bodies fashioned like unto Jesus’s glorious body.

And the great tribulation also has already past.

And they are already ruling and reigning with Christ in the 1000s years.


No wonder Jesus said And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

There everywhere.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

[peterT]

Preach it brother the Lord God of the here and now and not of pie in the sky.

I think the saying goes like this.

“It’s heaven on earth, and not pie in the sky”.

holy city new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven.

Sounds like pie in the sky to me.

to meet the Lord in the air.

Sounds like pie in the sky to me.

and my reward [is] with me.

Sounds like pie in the sky to me.

Who shall change our vile body that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body.

Sounds like pie in the sky to me, something to look forward to thank God.

The kingdom of God is within, a little bit of heaven in our hearts, and peace of mind now with Christ.

I hope you are not mixing up the kingdom of heaven with your big screen TV’s and your touch screen phones, and your good paying jobs, and your nice cars, and thinking that’s your piece of pie.


To think you have your new bodies and the kingdom of God is already on earth, would be very upsetting to lots of Christians around the world, who live in poverty and there fleshly bodies are not so good.


To teach the Matt24 is fulfilled already, and that Jesus already came in the clouds to gather his elect in 70AD, is to teach that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.




2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.


1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Rv22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


And I thought that the pre-tribulation teaching Christians where off track, you beat them hands down.

 

[AnandaHya]

I don't know about anyone else but this thread gives me a headache.

I believe that Jesus fulfilled a lot of Matthew 24 with the destruction of the Earthly temple in 70 AD.

all the verses before this one: 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

has already been fulfilled but all the ones after about the New Heaven and Earth have not.

I believe the GREAT Tribulation was during the first century when many were matyred and the 144,000 Jews who were faithful testified of YHWH and help establish the church and are currently in Heaven with Jesus. They start with the prophet Abel and continue until the death of the Apostle John and perhaps others.

I believe that Jesus NOW reigns in HEAVEN with His saints and either the 1000 years are figurative time or have already happen and we are now in the time period when Satan is released to deceive the nations.

but there is still things yet to happen. For example the second coming of Christ and the Great Judgment day when ALL will be resurrected and judged. Then Jesus will establish of the NEW Heaven and New Earth.

The first resurrection has already happen but the second is yet to come.

anyway, I believe that the NEW Heaven and Earth is literal not some super spiritual state and wait for my Lord in Faith of things unseen but promised for there will be a day when God will wipe away our tears.

Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death forever, And the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces; The rebuke of His people He will take away from all the earth; For the LORD has spoken.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le-TG4sRRiQ[/video]

 

[shroom2]

I believe just a little different than you, Ananda.

I believe that Jesus fulfilled a lot of Matthew 24 with the destruction of the Earthly temple in 70 AD.

None of Matt 24 is fulfilled yet.

all the verses before this one: 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Yes, Jesus said that. But it did not happen. Instead, Pentecost happened, ushering in God's sacred secret, this administration of grace, that -nobody- knew about.

has already been fulfilled but all the ones after about the New Heaven and Earth have not.

I believe the GREAT Tribulation was during the first century when many were matyred and the 144,000 Jews who were faithful testified of YHWH and help establish the church and are currently in Heaven with Jesus. They start with the prophet Abel and continue until the death of the Apostle John and perhaps others.

The great tribulation is still future. All of it.

I believe that Jesus NOW reigns in HEAVEN with His saints and either the 1000 years are figurative time or have already happen and we are now in the time period when Satan is released to deceive the nations.

The thousand years are literal, and still future. Christ will reign in his kingdom here on this earth.

but there is still things yet to happen. For example the second coming of Christ

That PRECEDES the millennial kingdom. Rev 19, 20

and the Great Judgment day when ALL will be resurrected and judged. Then Jesus will establish of the NEW Heaven and New Earth.

The first resurrection has already happen but the second is yet to come.

All resurrections are still future. Nobody has been raised to eternal life except Jesus Christ. John 3:13

anyway, I believe that the NEW Heaven and Earth is literal not some super spiritual state and wait for my Lord in Faith of things unseen but promised for there will be a day when God will wipe away our tears.

Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death forever, And the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces; The rebuke of His people He will take away from all the earth; For the LORD has spoken.

Amen!

 

[Grandpa]

I think the saying goes like this.

“It’s heaven on earth, and not pie in the sky”.

holy city new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven.

Sounds like pie in the sky to me.

to meet the Lord in the air.

Sounds like pie in the sky to me.

and my reward [is] with me.

Sounds like pie in the sky to me.

Who shall change our vile body that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body.

Sounds like pie in the sky to me, something to look forward to thank God.

The kingdom of God is within, a little bit of heaven in our hearts, and peace of mind now with Christ.

I hope you are not mixing up the kingdom of heaven with your big screen TV’s and your touch screen phones, and your good paying jobs, and your nice cars, and thinking that’s your piece of pie.


To think you have your new bodies and the kingdom of God is already on earth, would be very upsetting to lots of Christians around the world, who live in poverty and there fleshly bodies are not so good.


To teach the Matt24 is fulfilled already, and that Jesus already came in the clouds to gather his elect in 70AD, is to teach that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.




2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.


1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Rv22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


And I thought that the pre-tribulation teaching Christians where off track, you beat them hands down.

You have little understanding of the scriptures. Just enough to puff yourself up.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Because your carnal mind cannot understand it you have made up imaginations that come against the Knowledge of the Lord.

Matthew 24:48-51
48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

What is it again that you teach? The Lord will come back after a certain amount of time and after a whole bunch of things have happened? Sounds like delay to me.

Especially when you lean unto your own understanding of what events have transpired and what haven't. What have I seen with my carnal eyes and what have I not seen with my carnal eyes.

The Kingdom of God is at Hand. Right Now. No delays. Right Now.

This is not teaching that the Resurrection is past. This is teaching that the Resurrection is right now. The Lord has been collecting His Elect since He ascended into Heaven. He still collects His Elect, right now. He still comes in the clouds, Right Now.

Luke 17:20-21
20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

You're waiting for signs, you're waiting for something you can observe with your carnal eyes. You've said in your heart "My Lord delays His Coming".

Pray for Wisdom and Discernment in the Knowledge of Him. Its your only Hope.

Ephesians 1:17-23
17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


This is my prayer for all of you. Even you peterT, LOL...

 

[shroom2]

The Kingdom of God is at Hand. Right Now. No delays. Right Now.

This is not teaching that the Resurrection is past. This is teaching that the Resurrection is right now. The Lord has been collecting His Elect since He ascended into Heaven. He still collects His Elect, right now. He still comes in the clouds, Right Now.

Grandpa, you and 2KnowHim should start your own denomination. Both of your heads are in the clouds.

Last I checked, I'm still sitting here at my desk. Christ has not gathered me yet.

Christ's second coming is FUTURE. Believe me, if you're Christian, there will be NO MISTAKING IT. We'll KNOW!!!!!

 

[AnandaHya]

yeah Shroom we disagree but I don't have time to be distracted by thought of tomorrow enough is the troubles today.

Or how does the verse go?

Matthew 6:34
Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

So I believe we should do what God admonishes us to do TODAY:

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Ephesians 5:18-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21 submitting to one another in the fear of God.[a]

basically to love one another and through our love show that we are His disciples and be lights unto this forsaken world to bring people to repentance for their rebellion and understanding of God's grace and mercy through Jesus Christ and His remission of sins on the cross. For us to pray with those who seek to have the Holy Spirit dwell within their hearts to be guided by His presence and be transformed into the image of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in humbleness of heart and with contrite spirits seeking always to glorify the Lord. When the Lord comes will we be doing the work He entrusted us with or will we be bickering and ignoring the warning of Paul?

Galatians 5:14-16
New King James Version (NKJV)
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[a] 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh

Yeah some days I stumble and fall over but The Holy Spirit intercedes for me and encourages me to get back up and go towards that upward calling of God and walk each day abiding in His grace and mercy. So my prayer echoes Paul's in these words:

Romans 14:13
Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.

oh here are more verses with the word stumbling block in them. I found them interesting though totally off topic. sorry OP author but its page 20 so I'm not sure how much on topic people have to say concerning the rapture but I could be wrong there might be something new that hasn't already been posted on the topic.....

1 Corinthians 8:9
But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak.

Leviticus 19:14
You shall not curse the deaf, nor put a stumbling block before the blind, but shall fear your God: I am the LORD.

1 Corinthians 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,

 

[ApostleDisciple]

www.raptureready.com

 

[Grandpa]

Grandpa, you and 2KnowHim should start your own denomination. Both of your heads are in the clouds.

Last I checked, I'm still sitting here at my desk. Christ has not gathered me yet.

Christ's second coming is FUTURE. Believe me, if you're Christian, there will be NO MISTAKING IT. We'll KNOW!!!!!

It's all about faith, belief. If you don't believe, but instead say in your heart "My Lord delays His Coming" you are missing out.

Why are you told not to lean on your own understanding? Because you need the Wisdom of God and the Revelation of His Son in order to understand what is going on in the world that you cannot see with your eyes or understand with your carnal mind.

You're not going to recieve a miracle by listening to me explain what a miracle is. You have to go to the source of miracles and ask Him.

That's what I did/do. I think that's what we're all supposed to do.

 

[2knowhim]

Grandpa, you and 2KnowHim should start your own denomination. Both of your heads are in the clouds.

Last I checked, I'm still sitting here at my desk. Christ has not gathered me yet.

Christ's second coming is FUTURE. Believe me, if you're Christian, there will be NO MISTAKING IT. We'll KNOW!!!!!

That's exactly where our heads as you put it, ought to be Shroom, for after all we are apart of those
same cloud of witnesses.

But nevertheless, you shouldn't group people together and label them, as far as I know Grandpa doesn't believe in the Salvation of All,
Just because he gives witness to the same things I have been trying to tell you too, is no sign that we
talk, or discuss anything, because we don't.

He speaks the Truth. There are people experiencing these things now shroom whether you believe it or not.

 

[shroom2]

.....There are people experiencing these things now shroom whether you believe it or not.

If you believe you are now experiencing the second coming, it's something not described in God's Word.

This describes what Christ returning for the church will be like:

1 Thes 4:
13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Cor 15:
51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

And here is where Christ will return to earth to fight Armageddon and set up the millennial kingdom:

Matt 24:
27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 19:
11) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12) His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Both events, Christ returning for his church, and Christ returning for Armageddon, are still future.

 

[peterT]

You have little understanding of the scriptures. Just enough to puff yourself up.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Because your carnal mind cannot understand it you have made up imaginations that come against the Knowledge of the Lord.

Matthew 24:48-51
48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

What is it again that you teach? The Lord will come back after a certain amount of time and after a whole bunch of things have happened? Sounds like delay to me.

Especially when you lean unto your own understanding of what events have transpired and what haven't. What have I seen with my carnal eyes and what have I not seen with my carnal eyes.

The Kingdom of God is at Hand. Right Now. No delays. Right Now.

This is not teaching that the Resurrection is past. This is teaching that the Resurrection is right now. The Lord has been collecting His Elect since He ascended into Heaven. He still collects His Elect, right now. He still comes in the clouds, Right Now.

Luke 17:20-21
20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

You're waiting for signs, you're waiting for something you can observe with your carnal eyes. You've said in your heart "My Lord delays His Coming".

Pray for Wisdom and Discernment in the Knowledge of Him. Its your only Hope.

Ephesians 1:17-23
17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


This is my prayer for all of you. Even you peterT, LOL...

Yes it’s about faith, and you don’t seem to have that faith that comes with your preaching.

You have your new bodies? and you can’t walk through walls yet.

You have your new bodies? and yet you can’t pop and see the farther yet, like Jesus did after his death.

You have your new bodies? and you can’t disappear and reappear at will like Jesus did after his death.

Know that’s not more faith than us, it’s just puffed up preaching.

You haven’t got your new body otherwise you wouldn’t still be corrupt.

I can’t believe that I am even discussing, that you thing you have a new body. It like discussing yogi bear and jelly Stone Park, just a delusion.

How come just you 3 got your new bodies, and the rest of us are still in the old corrupt one that don’t work properly??

So Jesus came in the clouds at the sound of a trumpet and gathered his elect in 70AD, and you don’t think that you are preaching the resurrection is pats already, it like 1940 years ago, yes defiantly in the past.

How are we preaching he delays his coming? He tells us what to look for in matt24, like a tree budding, but you taking that chapter and are trying to bury it, so people will never know.

 

[peterT]

You're waiting for signs, you're waiting for something you can observe with your carnal eyes. You've said in your heart "My Lord delays His Coming".

Pray for Wisdom and Discernment in the Knowledge of Him. Its your only Hope.



This is my prayer for all of you. Even you peterT, LOL...

The disciples looked to Matt24 for Jesus’s coming and the signs of the times, and you’re not accusing them of preaching "My lord delayeth his coming". You can’t have it both ways.

Eat and drink with the drunkard, My lord delayeth his coming.

To say we teach the lord delayeth his coming; but it has nothing to do with looking to the future in bible scripture as the disciples did.

You are just taking it out of context on purpose, to help you prop up your theory, which is not even a theory it’s just a delusion.

Relating Christians that look to scripture for meat in due season, and for his coming, and the end of the world, to them that to eat and drink with the drunken, and say My lord delayeth his coming; the disciples did this even before 70AD,

Are you even listing to yourself.

Now that’s a sure sign that you don’t have a new body yet, that’s fashioned like unto his glories body, because you are still being corrupt.

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:


Matt24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed [is] that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite [his] fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Grandpa]

If you believe you are now experiencing the second coming, it's something not described in God's Word.

This describes what Christ returning for the church will be like:

1 Thes 4:
13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Cor 15:
51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

And here is where Christ will return to earth to fight Armageddon and set up the millennial kingdom:

Matt 24:
27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 19:
11) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12) His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Both events, Christ returning for his church, and Christ returning for Armageddon, are still future.

If the disciples didn't experience the Lords "2nd coming" they would not have been able to describe it and write it down for us.

The only reason why we know what it is we are experiencing is because of this written record.

Otherwise all I could tell you is that I have had a bunch of amazing experiences with the Lord.

I'm not going to pretend none of it happened just to fit in with christians. If you don't believe your own bible that is not something I can fix.

 

[Grandpa]

Yes it’s about faith, and you don’t seem to have that faith that comes with your preaching.

You have your new bodies? and you can’t walk through walls yet.

You have your new bodies? and yet you can’t pop and see the farther yet, like Jesus did after his death.

You have your new bodies? and you can’t disappear and reappear at will like Jesus did after his death.

Know that’s not more faith than us, it’s just puffed up preaching.

You haven’t got your new body otherwise you wouldn’t still be corrupt.

I can’t believe that I am even discussing, that you thing you have a new body. It like discussing yogi bear and jelly Stone Park, just a delusion.

How come just you 3 got your new bodies, and the rest of us are still in the old corrupt one that don’t work properly??

So Jesus came in the clouds at the sound of a trumpet and gathered his elect in 70AD, and you don’t think that you are preaching the resurrection is pats already, it like 1940 years ago, yes defiantly in the past.

How are we preaching he delays his coming? He tells us what to look for in matt24, like a tree budding, but you taking that chapter and are trying to bury it, so people will never know.

I've shown you with scripture. If you wish to study it you can go back and look up all the scripture that I've shown you in this thread.

If you don't want to believe it then just stay as you are and keep up the ridicule. If this isn't exactly what you need at this exact moment then why does the Lord have you reading these words on this site? Its to draw you closer to Him.

If you come back with any serious questions I will be happy to reply.