RAPTURE, PRE OR POST?

[peterT]

The people you don't want to deal with you insult and try to demonize with your wicked tongue. You are a spinless little coward. I have met many of your ilk, and your the least bit impressive. Pick on me if you want and I will bury you, that's a promise and challenge I would enjoy. You have the gutz? If not then keep your wicked tongue to yourself.

That’s just the devil speaking through you Red33.

Matt16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

And that statement was for peter who said a lot less than you.

And you probably thing it’s the lord that is speaking through you not the devil.
The whole spirit of you post reminds me of these verses.

Matt10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against [their] parents, and cause them to be put to death.

And

John 16 2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

In the 1930s the brown shirts in Germany started with insults and slurs, then it grow and grow until they that killeth you think they doeth gods serves.

Pick on me if you want and I will bury you that's a promise
You will bury nobody Red33; you can’t bury anybody and you can’t keep your promises because it’s just a website. And it has a code of conduct.

Empty threats that have no power at all red33 and you are just being nasty and delusional.

“You are a spinless little coward”

How can someone be a spinless little coward on Christian chat? people are just trying to preach the gospel, and that takes guts.

Empty threats that have no power at all red33 and you are just being nasty and delusional.
Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

“keep your wicked tongue to yourself”

My God, threats of destruction and anger and you think it’s him with a wicked tongue

 

[Red33]

That’s just the devil speaking through you Red33.

Matt16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

And that statement was for peter who said a lot less than you.

And you probably thing it’s the lord that is speaking through you not the devil.
The whole spirit of you post reminds me of these verses.

Matt10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against [their] parents, and cause them to be put to death.

And

John 16 2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

In the 1930s the brown shirts in Germany started with insults and slurs, then it grow and grow until they that killeth you think they doeth gods serves.

Pick on me if you want and I will bury youthat's a promise
You will bury nobody Red33; you can’t bury anybody and you can’t keep your promises because it’s just a website. And it has a code of conduct.

Empty threats that have no power at all red33 and you are just being nasty and delusional.

“You are a spinless little coward”

How can someone be a spinless little coward on Christian chat? people are just trying to preach the gospel, and that takes guts.

Empty threats that have no power at all red33 and you are just being nasty and delusional.
Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

“keep your wicked tongue to yourself”

My God, threats of destruction and anger and you think it’s him with a wicked tongue

I am talking about doctrine and not some physical thing. Wake up Peter and stop defending this smuck! Make sure you apply the right meaning of the word. He has a big mouth and likes to shoot if off whenever he wants. Some just let him go on and on, but not this time. Maybe some day God will humble him through mercy before he get himself in all kinds of trouble.

 

[Grandpa]

I am talking about doctrine and not some physical thing. Wake up Peter and stop defending this smuck! Make sure you apply the right meaning of the word. He has a big mouth and likes to shoot if off whenever he wants. Some just let him go on and on, but not this time. Maybe some day God will humble him through mercy before he get himself in all kinds of trouble.

Just keep teaching Red. Even if he doesn't get it there are some confused christians out there that you ARE helping.

We have all been prideful. We have all been angry with our brother. We all need Mercy and Grace. Some get it and some don't. I know you do Red.

 

[Zilla64007]

ye are of your father the devil, red33

i have never in my life ever wished death upon another Christian, and i never will...
and yet you find joy in the death of a Christian.

like i have said from the very beginning...

Matthew 7:20
by their fruit, ye shall know them


and he's not the only one either... i personally have already received death threats from professing "christians", because i dont believe in a pre-trib rapture.
i pity you, red33, for you have shown that you only worship Christ with your words, and not with your actions.
you are nothing more than a Pharisee.

 

[Grandpa]

"The Rapture" is a description of what happens to your Spirit when you are born again. This can happen to you right now. Read the bible for yourself and pray to the Lord to give you wisdom.

When you are born again you will know it. The Truth will cry out to you. You will not heed the doctrine of men anymore. Your eyes will be opened and you will Know the Truth.

The events described in the bible, in Revelations, are REAL events that happen to believers Right Now, in the spirit. They are spiritually discerned. You won't be able to understand except by the spirit.

The Lord takes down the strongholds that you and the enemy have built against Him. Its an impossible fight for you. You don't even have any real idea that they are there. It is not really even a struggle for the Lord. The Lord shows up and the enemy runs...

As far as tribulation... It was a lifelong amount of tribulation that finally brought me to have a contrite heart and a broken spirit before the Lord. I couldn't have come to the Lord without tribulation. I was too stubborn, and willful. The only way I can see for someone to come before the Lord with a contrite Heart and a Broken Spirit is to have gone through Tribulation.

This tribulation is like spiritual boot camp. The Lord uses it to cleanse and purify you (me). Like the Lord says, the physician doesn't come to the healthy but to the sick. If you just knew how sick you were...

 

[Grandpa]

The enemy doesn't want you to know there is a spiritual battle going on.

The enemy sows discord among the brethren and tries to make them fight among themselves.

Don't do it.

Forgive, as you have been forgiven. Show mercy as you have been shown mercy.

Self Control and Peace are fruits of the Spirit. Walk in the Spirit. Learn of the Spirit.

Seek Ye The Kingdom Of God.

 

[Zilla64007]

I do forgive, grandpa... and i do forgive red33...

but it is not me that red33 will have to answer to for every idle word that is spoken.
we all will give a personal account to God at the Judgement seat of Christ.

he is a fellow brother of yours, grandpa... while you should be condoning forgiveness from us, you should also be condoning repentance on red33's part.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

WOW - I have never seen such name calling and hatred with Christians toward Christians. Post #105 and #121 and others are almost in pure hatred!

Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth but that which is good to the use of edifying that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

I believe there are certain ways to speak to one another, even in disagreement, as brothers and sisters in Christ. Such as just being nice - everyone doesn't believe the same and won't - everyone is not at the same stage in the walk and fellowship with God - try to use some tenderness. Thanks.

In Christ. . . .

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Is the "rapture" considered the same thing as "the gathering together"?

 

[Graybeard]

Is the "rapture" considered the same thing as "the gathering together"?

yes.....one and the same..

 

[peterT]

I am talking about doctrine and not some physical thing. Wake up Peter and stop defending this smuck! Make sure you apply the right meaning of the word. He has a big mouth and likes to shoot if off whenever he wants. Some just let him go on and on, but not this time. Maybe some day God will humble him through mercy before he get himself in all kinds of trouble.

And maybe God will humble you one day soon too red33. Before you get in all kinds of trouble
“I am talking about doctrine and not some physical thing”
Me to red, and still you are not going to do anything NOTHING because you are just mouthing off whenever you wants. You are just dribbling nonsenses. There is nothing you can do because we have freedom of speech.

There is NOTHING I can do about you, and there’s NOTHING you can do about him.
Take a chill pill Red33 Take a chill pill

 

[Zilla64007]

yes.....one and the same..

2 Thessalonians 2 has some important verses concerning the rapture. My advice is to read that chapter, peacefulbeliever

 

[peterT]

. Wake up Peter and stop defending this smuck!.

What do you mean Wake up?

What wake up and see what a pre-trib coming.?

There is NO pre-tribulation coming in the Bible.

There is NO event in the bible were the dead are raised before the tribulation.

There is NO last trumpet that sounds in the Bible before the tribulation.

There is NO dead rising in the clouds in the Bible before the tribulation.

There is NO voice of the ark angel saying "come up hither" in the Bible before the tribulation.

There are No angels reaping in the Bible before the tribulation.

You’re just making it up. And it’s you that needs to wake up.

 

[Avinu]

What do you mean Wake up?

What wake up and see what a pre-trib coming.?

There is NO pre-tribulation coming in the Bible.

There is NO event in the bible were the dead are raised before the tribulation.

There is NO last trumpet that sounds in the Bible before the tribulation.

There is NO dead rising in the clouds in the Bible before the tribulation.

There is NO voice of the ark angel saying "come up hither" in the Bible before the tribulation.

There are No angels reaping in the Bible before the tribulation.

You’re just making it up. And it’s you that needs to wake up.

Amen, brother, Amen.

 

[AnandaHya]

"The Rapture" is a description of what happens to your Spirit when you are born again. This can happen to you right now. Read the bible for yourself and pray to the Lord to give you wisdom.

When you are born again you will know it. The Truth will cry out to you. You will not heed the doctrine of men anymore. Your eyes will be opened and you will Know the Truth.

The events described in the bible, in Revelations, are REAL events that happen to believers Right Now, in the spirit. They are spiritually discerned. You won't be able to understand except by the spirit.

The Lord takes down the strongholds that you and the enemy have built against Him. Its an impossible fight for you. You don't even have any real idea that they are there. It is not really even a struggle for the Lord. The Lord shows up and the enemy runs...

As far as tribulation... It was a lifelong amount of tribulation that finally brought me to have a contrite heart and a broken spirit before the Lord. I couldn't have come to the Lord without tribulation. I was too stubborn, and willful. The only way I can see for someone to come before the Lord with a contrite Heart and a Broken Spirit is to have gone through Tribulation.

This tribulation is like spiritual boot camp. The Lord uses it to cleanse and purify you (me). Like the Lord says, the physician doesn't come to the healthy but to the sick. If you just knew how sick you were...

that's an interesting take on the subject

 

[Grandpa]

1 Peter 4:1-2

1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1 Peter 5:10
10But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Suffering is tribulation. This suffering is occurring now. Likewise "the rapture", the making of people perfect, is happening now.

The bible is not warning you of some future event. It is now, right now. The Kingdom of God is at hand. Right now.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


You are using the doctrine of men to argue with each other. You are not using spiritual discernment.

We are spiritually taken from the dark pit into the light on top of the clouds. I have "seen" it. When you are saved, Born Again, that is the spiritual process. This rapture that you describe.

We are given a new heart. A new spirit. Right Now.

Ezekiel 36:24-27 24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


The Lord Jesus did this in me. I am a witness. He took me by the Hand and He Saved Me. Not figuratively. Literally, in the spirit. The Lord showed me in the spirit.

The deception is that you think this rapture is a future event. This is based on things you expect to manifest physically.

It has been my experience that these events happen literally, in the spirit.

Stop waiting for the seven headed beast to appear out of some lake. When John was having his revelation he was in the spirit, having revelation of spiritual things. These are spiritual events. They happen NOW in the lives of Christians being saved by Christ.

Maybe I'm the first one you have heard this from. I didn't learn it from men. It was revealed to me by the Holy Spirit. I'm still reading the bible trying to figure it all out. I don't understand all of Revelations. Only parts. But the parts I do understand, they are beautiful.

 

[Red33]

WOW - I have never seen such name calling and hatred with Christians toward Christians. Post #105 and #121 and others are almost in pure hatred!

Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth but that which is good to the use of edifying that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

I believe there are certain ways to speak to one another, even in disagreement, as brothers and sisters in Christ. Such as just being nice - everyone doesn't believe the same and won't - everyone is not at the same stage in the walk and fellowship with God - try to use some tenderness. Thanks.

In Christ. . . .

These posters have a history of making remarks to individuals that denigrate, mock, ridicule and belittle fellow believers and they do it again and again. They are all puffed up in their knowledge and it gets to be too much. Is in not just disagreement, it is antagonistic and they keep dishing it out and personally go after others. I get a little tired of their wicked tongue and how they fling their doctrine around like it is some cutting machine to mow people down with. They can do it to me all they want but when they continually attack a brother, I am going to stand up and knock them back, because we are members one of another and when you openly have offended a brother through callous disregard with your tongue, then you are going to be on the receiving end until your mouth is stopped.

If you had a brother that this was happening to on a consistent basis, would you just sit back passively and say nothing or would be a little outraged and give him a piece of your mind. Just because we are believers does not mean that we have to allow these kind of mockers to have their say without rebuking them. If on occasion we did more rebuking, where it is warranted, we could probably save some heavy chastisement and discipline for some that have allowed their tongue to sin greatly. Just consider these things and take them before God as a believer-priest.

 

[2knowhim]

1 Peter 4:1-2

1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1 Peter 5:10
10But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Suffering is tribulation. This suffering is occurring now. Likewise "the rapture", the making of people perfect, is happening now.

The bible is not warning you of some future event. It is now, right now. The Kingdom of God is at hand. Right now.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


You are using the doctrine of men to argue with each other. You are not using spiritual discernment.

We are spiritually taken from the dark pit into the light on top of the clouds. I have "seen" it. When you are saved, Born Again, that is the spiritual process. This rapture that you describe.

We are given a new heart. A new spirit. Right Now.

Ezekiel 36:24-27 24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


The Lord Jesus did this in me. I am a witness. He took me by the Hand and He Saved Me. Not figuratively. Literally, in the spirit. The Lord showed me in the spirit.

The deception is that you think this rapture is a future event. This is based on things you expect to manifest physically.

It has been my experience that these events happen literally, in the spirit.

Stop waiting for the seven headed beast to appear out of some lake. When John was having his revelation he was in the spirit, having revelation of spiritual things. These are spiritual events. They happen NOW in the lives of Christians being saved by Christ.

Maybe I'm the first one you have heard this from. I didn't learn it from men. It was revealed to me by the Holy Spirit. I'm still reading the bible trying to figure it all out. I don't understand all of Revelations. Only parts. But the parts I do understand, they are beautiful.

Your not alone Grandpa, I also have experienced it too.
For many the last trump has sounded, and we are raised and seated in the
Heavenlies in Christ, we have passed from death to life, IN The Spirit,
and we have been previledged to see it.

Amen on the Book of Revelation, me too, it's Beautiful.

It is His work IN US. It is THE REVELATION OF CHRIST IN YOU, THE
HOPE OF GLORY.

Thanks for sharing
Blessings

 

[peacefulbeliever]

These posters have a history of making remarks to individuals that denigrate, mock, ridicule and belittle fellow believers and they do it again and again. They are all puffed up in their knowledge and it gets to be too much. Is in not just disagreement, it is antagonistic and they keep dishing it out and personally go after others. I get a little tired of their wicked tongue and how they fling their doctrine around like it is some cutting machine to mow people down with. They can do it to me all they want but when they continually attack a brother, I am going to stand up and knock them back, because we are members one of another and when you openly have offended a brother through callous disregard with your tongue, then you are going to be on the receiving end until your mouth is stopped.

The way I see it - I can state my belief and it may or may not be what another believes - but that doesn't give me the right to abuse that person. I won't stand accountable for what any one else believes as their doctrine but I will only have to answer for myself. Usually when things get heated I try to back off for a while then come back. But hey that's just me.
If you had a brother that this was happening to on a consistent basis, would you just sit back passively and say nothing or would be a little outraged and give him a piece of your mind. Just because we are believers does not mean that we have to allow these kind of mockers to have their say without rebuking them. If on occasion we did more rebuking, where it is warranted, we could probably save some heavy chastisement and discipline for some that have allowed their tongue to sin greatly. Just consider these things and take them before God as a believer-priest.

I probably would begin to get angry but what good does it do to call them names and belittle another person's belief even though you think it is wrong? It really only makes matters worse. You rebuke with the word - not by name calling. If they listen fine if not there's nothing you can do.

In Christ. . . .

 

[unclefester]

Time is a great teacher,..... but unfortunately it kills all its pupils