Reject Paul and you're no follower of Christ

[Brackenzee]

If you do not believe the whole Bible is inerrant then we should just throw all of it out. Who are we to pick and choose what God really said and what He didn;t.Who are we to tell God want He must think or say?

Well that's not helpful. The Bible is obviously an invaluable resource not only into the life and teachings of Jesus and a repository of good insight into human nature and our relationship with God. Without it, we would have very little knowledge of Jesus.

What we need to keep in mind is the history and context of each book and understand how these things shape the authors' motivations for writing the books. Revelation, for example, makes much more sense as a condemnation of the evils of the Roman Empire than a quasi-literal prophecy of events that haven't happened yet.

 

[loveallserveall]

I apologize, Iraasuup. I'm not trying to make assumptions or second guess admins or anything. I had said it originally, but it's probably some pages back now. I know, it's just not the best time to be a noob, but I was just looking for clarification, on what we can do or not to do, or say or not say. I did read the Terms of Use on the way in, but it states that admins can remove people or posts for any reason. I'm not questioning that, but if it's okay I would like to know what actually are offenses that you will ban for. I'm not trying to get personal into these guys, but it's not one or two, it's several people, so I just would like ot make sure I don't get caught up without knowing the rules, or which denominations are allowed or.. I mean, I dunno what it is, I was just looking for a little guidance, not trying to second guess the administration.

 

[MahogonySnail]

What we need to keep in mind is the history and context of each book and understand how these things shape the authors' motivations for writing the books. Revelation, for example, makes much more sense as a condemnation of the evils of the Roman Empire than a quasi-literal prophecy of events that haven't happened yet.

Actually it's sort of both. The nature of biblical prophecy is that is has literal fulfillment for believers at the time for that audience, but also lessons learnt and spiritual fulfillment for things yet to come in future generations.

That is because human nature doesn't really change. Just look at WW2 occurring so soon after WW1. Did they learn their lessons from WW1? No, humans never do.

For the Jews and biblical prophecy, an anti-Christ type figure and related empire has been present and opposed against them ever since Pharaoh in Egypt right up to Hitler in WW2. Each of the horns I think it is represent different oppressive kings or empires which came and went. Assyrian, Babylon, Greece, Selucids, Rome (I forget the order). Revelations describes one last great kingdom of this type with an anti-Christ head, that will occur before the return of Christ. As Christ hasn't returned yet, we know this part of the prophecy in Revelations is still yet to come. And from lessons learnt in the past, before every great move of God, in this case the return of Christ, there is great opposition from satan.

 

[iraasuup]

I apologize, Iraasuup. I'm not trying to make assumptions or second guess admins or anything. I had said it originally, but it's probably some pages back now. I know, it's just not the best time to be a noob, but I was just looking for clarification, on what we can do or not to do, or say or not say. I did read the Terms of Use on the way in, but it states that admins can remove people or posts for any reason. I'm not questioning that, but if it's okay I would like to know what actually are offenses that you will ban for. I'm not trying to get personal into these guys, but it's not one or two, it's several people, so I just would like ot make sure I don't get caught up without knowing the rules, or which denominations are allowed or.. I mean, I dunno what it is, I was just looking for a little guidance, not trying to second guess the administration.

Well, just don't break the chat rules, and you'll be fine.

It's all really pretty much common sense.

 

[loveallserveall]

That's what I'm asking for clarification on. The chat rules, at least if you mean the top thread, refers to 66 books. So does that mean Catholics, Orthodox, Mormons and Jews aren't welcome? If that's it, then it makes sense why the supposed Jews are gone. But I don't want to assume, I'd rather ask a dumb question, and make sure we're all on the same page, you know?

 

[Irish76]

Just an observation.....

The Ten Commandments were written in stone and the rest of the laws that followed were not.

When Jesus answers the righ young man as to what he must do to inherit eternal life, Jesus tells him (in so many words) to love God, obey the commandments (He even lists the 6 commandments which do not directly pertain to God), and follow Him (Jesus)...Matt 19:16-30, Mark 10:17-31, Luke 18:18-30

 

[iraasuup]

That's what I'm asking for clarification on. The chat rules, at least if you mean the top thread, refers to 66 books. So does that mean Catholics, Orthodox, Mormons and Jews aren't welcome? If that's it, then it makes sense why the supposed Jews are gone. But I don't want to assume, I'd rather ask a dumb question, and make sure we're all on the same page, you know?

What?

The chat rules are posted on the main page above the forums. Here is the link:

http://christianchat.com/rules.php

I don't see anything in there about be denomination specific. We allow anyone here, even people who aren't believers. But the rules apply to ALL USERS.

Which in short simply means, we will allow anyone to come along and fellowship with us, but if they are seen to be breaking the rules, (intentionally or otherwise) then they will be dealt with accordingly.

There is no excuse for people not to know the rules, everyone has to agree to them upon registration. We do take into consideration other factors, like those who may not totally understand english or whatever.

The point is, we have a job to do. That job is made all the more difficult by people concerning themselves in bans/infractions that have nothing to do with them. Sometimes it might seem to an onlooker that a user will get' banned' for no reason, when in actual fact there may have been ongoing issues with user leading up to the ban. Sometimes things go on for weeks or even months, and the mods are aware of it, and then a ban will happen, and people jump up and down because they saw someone get banned, when they simply don't know all the issues that contributed to the ban over the last however many weeks.

Basically, just follow the rules, and you will be fine. I hope that makes sense.

 

[cookie39]

I John 2:18-20 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

I John 2:22.... Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

I John 4:3....Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[espresso]

I don't think you need to have a big clarification of rules to see that these types of comments (below) are totally innaporpriate in a Christian Chat Forum.

Paul was a mysogynist homophobe and probably would have been rebuked by Jesus. I'm saddened at the number of people who think he's all that and a bag of chips.

"UH . .UH .. .YER GONNA GO TO HELL FOR THAT!!!"

I would be honored. Jesus would have called Paul out for being a self-righteous Pharisee.

Thank you Iraasuup for doing what looks to be a tough and misunderstood job.

 

[Dread_Zeppelin]

I don't think you need to have a big clarification of rules to see that these types of comments (below) are totally innaporpriate in a Christian Chat Forum.








Thank you Iraasuup for doing what looks to be a tough and misunderstood job.

I'm not talking about the rules I'm talking about your response as a Christian. The rules say nothing about condemning others, even if they "deserve" it.
None of us are perfect, I'm just saying we should take a step back and choose not to call eachother names.

 

[lil-rush]

Thank you Iraasuup for doing what looks to be a tough and misunderstood job.

Honestly, I think pretty much everyone in this thread was talking about everyone that got banned yesterday. Mainly Arel and Mobius.

 

[loveallserveall]

Hopefully this won't get me in trouble, as I'm addressing it to espresso-

So what about the great commission? Aren't these people part of who we're supposed to take the gospel to? And perhaps more importantly, if we just shun them, (note- I'm not talking about banning, I'm saying shunning in general, refusing to engage) instead of correcting them with scripture, might they not just go and spread that message somewhere without the sort of mature christians we see here, that can probably just shoot that theory down in scripture ?

It seems like there's lots of people around here that know the bible pretty well.

I don't think you need to have a big clarification of rules to see that these types of comments (below) are totally innaporpriate in a Christian Chat Forum.








Thank you Iraasuup for doing what looks to be a tough and misunderstood job.

 

[iraasuup]

Honestly, I think pretty much everyone in this thread was talking about everyone that got banned yesterday. Mainly Arel and Mobius.

You're right they were. So my request applies to everyone...

Please stop involving yourself in/questioning/talking about other users bans. It really doesn't help any.

 

[espresso]

Hopefully this won't get me in trouble, as I'm addressing it to espresso-

So what about the great commission? Aren't these people part of who we're supposed to take the gospel to? And perhaps more importantly, if we just shun them, (note- I'm not talking about banning, I'm saying shunning in general, refusing to engage) instead of correcting them with scripture, might they not just go and spread that message somewhere without the sort of mature christians we see here, that can probably just shoot that theory down in scripture ?

It seems like there's lots of people around here that know the bible pretty well.

I hear you and agree with you to a point. This person was not interested in dialogue though, he was interested in attacking others and the word of God (read the quotes). Sharing the Gospel or Great Commission as you say is great but this person already knew the gospel and chooses to not only reject it, but actually attack it. Now I would love to have a discussion with a person like that, but I dont think there is a place for those types of comments here (read the quotes closely). Just my 2 cents.

 

[cookie39]

1) Yeshua never called Paul an apostle. In fact, I'm prepared to show that He called him a FALSE apostle.

Please show it.

2) I'm not Jewish, and I have never claimed to be.

Forgive me I mistook your avatar for religion instead of nationality.

3) The "law" of Moses is not bondage, and never was. I would caution any who claim to believe in Yeshua against disparaging the Torah, since A) He spoke highly of it and B) John 1 says He IS the Torah-made-flesh.

The law itself, no, but adhering to it for righteousness is and attempting to put others, gentiles under the law of Moses
is bondage. That includes dietrary, sabbath and circumcision etc observances which Paul taught are irrelevant.

Galatians 3:1-29......O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[cookie39]

Let's not forget the difference between Jew and Gentile. If Jews want to keep their laws, fine. But don't impose them on gentiles. Paul's view was unifying to both Jew and Gentile, he taught both were equal in the eyes of Christ. Paul should be seen as a mediator and peace-maker not as a divider or heretic or false apostle. The ones doing the dividing are the Jews who wish to impose their high standards and unattainable sabbath, food laws, and circumcision keeping on non-Jews. Rejection of God's grace and imposing their own old testament ways is an affront to the Gospel of Christ. Paul already said, in his great wisdom, that if you break the least you break them all. And Jews certainly dont' keep all the laws, not even Messianic Jews. In fact God left the temple and allowed it to be ruined to make it impossible to keep the laws and force everyone to trust in Christ alone not keeping the Torah. If you dont keep them all yourself, why bother telling us gentiles that we must keep and follow them. If it's not relevant for salvation or justification, why bother. If it is relevant, then the Jew has just contradicted their view that the torah is not for salvation. The Messianic Jews i've known have no problem with Christian belief nor the teachings of Paul. It leads me to suspect then that opponents to either Christianity or Paul are on the enemies side.

Amen to that for it is God's Word and for anyone to dispurte it they are arguing with God not that one who brings His message but God Himself

Galatians 3....O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Sorry for the repeat

 

[loveallserveall]

cookie-

I dunno about you.. I find the thread topic to be interesting, but I think maybe it's smart to hold off on getting back into the issue, until we can make sure from an admin, is this something we're allowed to discuss, or is it gonna mean more people banned, if we don't all agree? I don't need to know about other people's bans, but going forward, is this an acceptable line of discussion ?

 

[loveallserveall]

cookie - "Amen" ? To the law being unattainable? Adventists manage to keep the Sabbath, food laws, and circumcision. I never thought that was "the hard part" ... ?

 

[MahogonySnail]

If you're a full grown adult male, circumcision is hard. Adventists don't keep the Sabbath, they just think they do, they travel on church days and use electricity. Try keeping it the way the orthodox Jews do, not allowed to light a spark. Hardcore - now THAT's keeping the Sabbath. Food laws - yeah it's pretty hard to avoid anything in our society that has a bit of pork or ham in it, or find kosher foods conveniently.

 

[iraasuup]

cookie-

I dunno about you.. I find the thread topic to be interesting, but I think maybe it's smart to hold off on getting back into the issue, until we can make sure from an admin, is this something we're allowed to discuss, or is it gonna mean more people banned, if we don't all agree? I don't need to know about other people's bans, but going forward, is this an acceptable line of discussion ?

I'm really not sure how much clearer we can make it.

Yes, discuss away this topic until your heart is content. Just don't give any false teachings, or speak and heresy any you'll be just fine.
But do feel free, to discuss what you think, or even ask others why they believe what they do. Just do it in an objective manner.

It's that simple really.

** NOTE** This applies to everyone