Retire the Ten Commandments?

[ElohimsByGrace]

Wow, what an interesting conversation to enter into as a new visitor to this site. At this point, I might just add one thing... the "handwriting in ordinances that is against us" that was nailed to the cross, was NOT the Law, or the 10 commandments, or anything related... other than our DEBT that came from our trespasses. Read carefully and do some thorough word studies, and we see that what was nailed to the cross was the handwriting of our indebtedness to God (death) due to our sin and sins. The Law was never "against us". The law is holy and righteous and good. It was meant to "lead us to Christ". The handwriting against us is the listing of debt due to our transgressions. This is why, In Col 2:15, He "spoiled the principalities and authorities..." who would accuse us before our God. The debt was nailed to the cross, fully paid for by Messiah.

 

[preston39]

Wow, what an interesting conversation to enter into as a new visitor to this site. At this point, I might just add one thing... the "handwriting in ordinances that is against us" that was nailed to the cross, was NOT the Law, or the 10 commandments, or anything related... other than our DEBT that came from our trespasses. Read carefully and do some thorough word studies, and we see that what was nailed to the cross was the handwriting of our indebtedness to God (death) due to our sin and sins. The Law was never "against us". The law is holy and righteous and good. It was meant to "lead us to Christ". The handwriting against us is the listing of debt due to our transgressions. This is why, In Col 2:15, He "spoiled the principalities and authorities..." who would accuse us before our God. The debt was nailed to the cross, fully paid for by Messiah.

Welcome.

That is a very well scripted and accurate reply.

Christ took our sins to The Cross and gave us forgiveness by ...... grace.

Praise G-d.

 

[ElohimsByGrace]

Here is a fairly good rendering of the text by Wuest.
Col 2:13 (13-17) And you being dead with reference to your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He gave life together with Him, having in grace forgiven you all your trespasses, having obliterated the hand-written document consisting of ordinances, the one against us, which was directly opposed to us, and He removed it out of the midst with the result that it is no longer there, having nailed it to the Cross; having stripped off and away from himself the principalities and authorities, He boldly made an example of them, leading them in a triumphal procession in it. Stop therefore allowing anyone to be sitting in judgment upon you in eating or drinking or in the matter of a feast day or a new moon, or a Sabbath day, which things are a shadow of those things about to come. But the body belongs to Christ.
It is for this reason - this elimination of any and all decrees against us by any principalities and authorities - that we need no longer concern ourselves with anyone who may want to sit in judgment against us due to the meat, drink, keeping of days, etc.
The key is, those things are "a shadow of those things about to come". But at the time God wrote this passage through His saint to the Colossians, Yeshua Messiah had already been. So what is in view with "those things about to come?"
This, beloved, is "the thing with which we may want to concern ourselves."

 

[iamsoandso]

Wow, what an interesting conversation to enter into as a new visitor to this site. At this point, I might just add one thing... the. "handwriting in ordinances that is against us" that was nailed to the cross, was NOT the Law, or the 10 commandments, or anything related... other than our DEBT that came from our trespasses. Read carefully and do some thorough word studies, and we see that what was nailed to the cross was the handwriting of our indebtedness to God (death) due to our sin and sins. The Law was never "against us". The law is holy and righteous and good. It was meant to "lead us to Christ". The handwriting against us is the listing of debt due to our transgressions. This is why, In Col 2:15, He "spoiled the principalities and authorities..." who would accuse us before our God. The debt nailed to the cross, fully paid for by Messiah.

In Acts 15,at the fist counsel in Jerusalem(as we refer to it) there was the issue of whether or not the gentiles should be circumcised and follow the law.

Some of them thought they should but some did not so they met to "consider of this matter"(Acts 15:6). This is about ad48-50,,so almost twenty years after our Lord was Crucified.

So here's the deli-ma,,,
A: they get circumcised and follow the law.
B: no they don't but they do well if they do whats in the letter they wrote.
or,,,

C: neither of the two because they are all no longer under the law of Moses or the Noahide law and are under the N.C.

But Scripture is the judge, and so what the Disciples and Apostles said that day is the key I think,,,

 

[ElohimsByGrace]

I don't know how to make that nifty repeat thing appear in this window yet, but regarding
- "C: neither of the two because they are all no longer under the law of Moses or the Noahide law and are under the N.C."
- I'm presuming "N.C." means New Covenant.
- We need to be careful here, too, because the term for "new" really means "renewed" - that is, "the same, but of a different quality or form."
- In other words, God's covenant remains the same from the beginning in Genesis 3 when He promises the Seed, until "all things are completed". He has renewed the covenant (again, as He has already done before), in a different form - and as He says "not a jot or tittle shall pass from the Law until all things are completed..." (which they are not yet).
- So it behooves us to think deeply on these things, and keep the ultimate end goal always in view.

 

[iamsoandso]

I don't know how to make that nifty repeat thing appear in this window yet, but regarding
- "C: neither of the two because they are all no longer under the law of Moses or the Noahide law and are under the N.C."
- I'm presuming "N.C." means New Covenant.
- We need to be careful here, too, because the term for "new" really means "renewed" - that is, "the same, but of a different quality or form."
- In other words, God's covenant remains the same from the beginning in Genesis 3 when He promises the Seed, until "all things are completed". He has renewed the covenant (again, as He has already done before), in a different form - and as He says "not a jot or tittle shall pass from the Law until all things are completed..." (which they are not yet).
- So it behooves us to think deeply on these things, and keep the ultimate end goal always in view.

As I said Scripture is the judge...

One of them bought up the "C" aspect at the council seeing they were filled with the Holy Spirit right,,,so what was said? Which of them brought up the NC?

 

[Wall]

Come on, get off your high-horse, nobody claims circumcision is still relevant today. All we need know of the law is why it was first instituted, then we will know of its relevance for us today.

Nobody today. But when the Jews of that time heard they need not be circumsized they just couldnt handle it. For instance, the book of Galatians is a book containing 6 very short chapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is mentioned 16 times. What if those Jews were told they not need to keep the sabbath day. There would be books upon books trying to explain to the Jews as to why they didnt need to keep the sabbath. Yet...... not one word about it. Not one discussion. YIKES!

 

[Wall]

Come on, get off your high-horse, nobody claims circumcision is still relevant today.

I know

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Its the keeping of Gods commandments {including the 4th} thats relevant today

 

[iamsoandso]

six days thou shalt...and on the seventh ,,,,"...cicumcised and follow the law...Acts 15?,,,

 

[Deade]

In Acts 15,at the fist counsel in Jerusalem(as we refer to it) there was the issue of whether or not the gentiles should be circumcised and follow the law.

Some of them thought they should but some did not so they met to "consider of this matter"(Acts 15:6). This is about ad48-50,,so almost twenty years after our Lord was Crucified.

So here's the deli-ma,,,
A: they get circumcised and follow the law.
B: no they don't but they do well if they do whats in the letter they wrote.
or,,,

C: neither of the two because they are all no longer under the law of Moses or the Noahide law and are under the N.C.

But Scripture is the judge, and so what the Disciples and Apostles said that day is the key I think,,,

About the NC: Please read the below excerpt and tell me when that is to take place.

New Covenant​

When the disciples received the Holy Ghost in Acts 2, what was the reference to Joel about? And what about the part in the last verse (2:21) “that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved?”Acts 2:16-21: “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Has there been any era where that has happened? Joel chapter 1 speaks about the devastation of the earth and the Day of the Lord (Future events).

Then Joel 2 ends with: 31: “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.” 32: “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.”

Many say we are already in God’s new covenant that was prophesied in the OT and in Acts/Hebrews.

Heb. 8:7-13 “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”

Jer. 31:31-34 “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Do you see the direct link between Jeremiah and Hebrews? What about the parallels in Acts and Joel?

Acts 2:16-18 “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”

First a time frame in Joel: Joel 2:1 “Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;”

Next, it speaks of a restoration after the Day of the Lord. Then we are given a picture of the new covenant: Joel 2:28, 29 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.”

What can we conclude from this? What we have today is not the New Covenant God was talking about. Not yet. The way I read that is everyone that calls on the Lord will have salvation. Surely, that is not today. So, ask yourself: when is it?

 

[Grandpa]

Here ya go

Deuteronomy 4:12-13 (KJV)
12 And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Oh, so close.

But not cigar.

 

[iamsoandso]

About the NC: Please read the below excerpt and tell me when that is to take place.

New Covenant​

When the disciples received the Holy Ghost in Acts 2, what was the reference to Joel about? And what about the part in the last verse (2:21) “that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved?”Acts 2:16-21: “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Has there been any era where that has happened? Joel chapter 1 speaks about the devastation of the earth and the Day of the Lord (Future events).

Then Joel 2 ends with: 31: “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.” 32: “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.”

Many say we are already in God’s new covenant that was prophesied in the OT and in Acts/Hebrews.

Heb. 8:7-13 “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”

Jer. 31:31-34 “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Do you see the direct link between Jeremiah and Hebrews? What about the parallels in Acts and Joel?

Acts 2:16-18 “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”

First a time frame in Joel: Joel 2:1 “Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;”

Next, it speaks of a restoration after the Day of the Lord. Then we are given a picture of the new covenant: Joel 2:28, 29 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; antod your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.”

What can we conclude from this? What we have today is not the New Covenant God was talking about. Not yet. The way I read that is everyone that calls on the Lord will have salvation. Surely, that is not today. So, ask yourself: when is it?

.

In Acts 21:26 Paul,James and the others saw the temple,then still standing as "valid". There is no point in offering sacrifices in a temple to God that is rendered useless,of no effect. Now in ad70 that same temple was rendered of no effect. The issue is this...if the law is set aside and the temple is of no affect then a man of lawlessness can rise all he wants and set up an image in it but it would be as if he hung a picture of his self in a portable building,lol...

So the very next temple has to be without any argument a valid temple where sacrifices could be offered to the almighty God or else he cannot pollute it and set up the AoD,,,,So if one says we are under the NC then they must concede that no MoS or valid temple will come in a future tense...

 

[preston39]

.

In Acts 21:26 Paul,James and the others saw the temple,then still standing as "valid". There is no point in offering sacrifices in a temple to God that is rendered useless,of no effect. Now in ad70 that same temple was rendered of no effect. The issue is this...if the law is set aside and the temple is of no affect then a man of lawlessness can rise all he wants and set up an image in it but it would be as if he hung a picture of his self in a portable building,lol...

So the very next temple has to be without any argument a valid temple where sacrifices could be offered to the almighty God or else he cannot pollute it and set up the AoD,,,,So if one says we are under the NC then they must concede that no MoS or valid temple will come in a future tense...

What?
Then what covenant are we under?

 

[iamsoandso]

Well the New Covenant,Luke 22:20,,,,1 Corinthians 11:17-34,,,,ect,

But also you are the temple... 1 Corinthians 3:16,,,1 Corinthians 6:19,,,you are the Temple,the Fane that God dwells in he is the Lord of host.

 

[iamsoandso]

Zechariah 6:12,,,The Branch (is who builds) the next Temple not a man, a Temple of wood and stone is sitting in a place where it ought not be. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/zechariah/6.htm

 

[Grandpa]

Wow, what an interesting conversation to enter into as a new visitor to this site. At this point, I might just add one thing... the "handwriting in ordinances that is against us" that was nailed to the cross, was NOT the Law, or the 10 commandments, or anything related... other than our DEBT that came from our trespasses. Read carefully and do some thorough word studies, and we see that what was nailed to the cross was the handwriting of our indebtedness to God (death) due to our sin and sins. The Law was never "against us". The law is holy and righteous and good. It was meant to "lead us to Christ". The handwriting against us is the listing of debt due to our transgressions. This is why, In Col 2:15, He "spoiled the principalities and authorities..." who would accuse us before our God. The debt was nailed to the cross, fully paid for by Messiah.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Read carefully and do word studies?

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

The ministration of death and condemnation is the 10 commandments. It was the only thing written on stone. Your word studies can't twist that truth.

Romans 8:1-2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death (the 10 commandments). BECAUSE the very handwriting of ordinances that were against us was NAILED to His Cross.

No matter how many ways it is described in all the epistles the Judaizer always manages to twist the true meaning of scripture to mean we are all still under the law. But those who have been to Christ are no longer under the law. Why? Because it was nailed to the Cross.

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

It doesn't get any more simple than that. But what does the Judaizer say? Do a word study and find out that when law is mentioned it means law of sacrifices or ceremonial law. That is just their wishful thinking. When law is mentioned it means the law. All of it.

There's a 1001 twists that the Judaizer has to do in order to attempt to put the Christian back under the law. But what it really comes down to is Faith. Do you have faith in Christ or do you have faith in your "moral" work at the law?

Well, good luck. I hope you follow Christ instead of the vain jangling of judaizers.

 

[preston39]

Well the New Covenant,Luke 22:20,,,,1 Corinthians 11:17-34,,,,ect,

But also you are the temple... 1 Corinthians 3:16,,,1 Corinthians 6:19,,,you are the Temple,the Fane that God dwells in he is the Lord of host.

Neither of those references supports your position.

 

[iamsoandso]

Neither of those references supports your position.

"your position",,,what do you mean by this?

 

[preston39]

"your position",,,what do you mean by this?

In number 494.

 

[iamsoandso]

My position is we/I are under the N.C.,,,