Sabbath

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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Generally speaking, I will agree that a mental illness and irrationality is possible, but for a different reason.

For instance, if we follow the logic of "the law is done away and that the Spirit within the believer at the time of confession is all that's needed", then one has to wonder why do many here study so fervently scriptures to show themselves approved. Approved of who? Of Yah? Why? Such would be mental illness from all parties involved: from Yah giving the scriptures that aren't needed, down to the believer studying them unnecessarily instead of trusting in the Spirit within them; especially the NT letters that basically say the law is no more and to follow the Spirit.

What's the point of even giving a bible at all to a new convert if the OT is obsolete and the NT just explains that the OT is obsolete and to trust in the Spirit? They could avoid the risk of learning anything about the law of Yah at the outset if we just skipped the bible. By this logic there's no standard by which to measure or to judge anyone in right or wrong, and any attempt to follow a standard through scriptural study means one clearly doesn't have the Spirit, right? That they're Pharisees?

So why the exercise in the futility of even studying scripture? Why even provide the scriptures to study? To understand how to love? No it can't be that, right, because the Spirit is in the believer and such a scripture explaining "how to" truly love would be establishing a standard by which to measure love; i.e. making a law to follow. And such would be legalism by definition, wouldn't it; to follow a law for Yah's approval?

Why study as bible students if the act only proves its own futility the more we do it? The entire exercise collapses in on itself if there's no real purpose to it and only leads to spiritual harm. And if we follow this viewpoint out logically to it's ultimate conclusion the only reasonable instruction would be, "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law. love under will."

...But that can be right because that's what Aleister Crowley taught.

----

The scriptures were given for a reason. The law (the instruction) was given for a reason.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.

If the reason these were given was to show that we can't follow them and thus prove why we don't need them, that is indeed irrational for some here to believe.
I can't speak for other people, but I read the Bible in order to gain wisdom.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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Also I think we should settle once and for all this notion of whether we - the body of Christ - are to judge or correct the body of Christ in matters of their faith walk...or at least wrestle with what scripture says before trying to tackle particulars like the Sabbath.

Examples from OT, to the Messiah, to NT:

- Leviticus 19:15
"You must not pervert justice; you must not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the rich; you are to judge your neighbor fairly.

- Deuteronomy 1:16
At that time I charged your judges: "Hear the disputes between your brothers, and judge fairly between a man and his brother or a foreign resident.

- Psalm 58:1,2
Do you indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do you judge uprightly

- Zechariah 7:9
"This is what the LORD of Hosts says: 'Administer true justice. Show loving devotion and compassion to one another.


- John 7:24 (Messiah)
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

- Matthew 7:1-5 (Messiah)
Judge not, lest ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, FIRST take the plank out of your own eye, AND THEN you will see clearly TO REMOVE the speck from your brother’s eye.

^In full context; not a commandment not to judge, but a commandment not to be a hypocrite, i.e. JUDGE RIGHTEOUSLY; "practice what you preach", which is in harmony with what he also said in John 7:24.

Luke 17:3 (Messiah)
So watch yourselves. "If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.

^A sin is a transgression against Yah's law. Here's an example of direct instruction to judge and rebuking someone who breaks Yah's law against us (such as one of the commandments regarding how to love our neighbors).


- ANY of Paul's letters to believers ANYWHERE.
Paul is not the head of this body, and yet Paul judged and reproved converts on their walk AND sins. Paul even judged Peter for wrongdoing. Paul is an equal member of the body judging another member of the body in their walk, so wouldn't he be braking his own instructions in Colossians 2:16 by his actions?

Consider for a moment; what sense would it make to write a long letter reproving believers in other sections only to say in one section, "let no man judge you..."? What, "no man" like Paul? Such instructions are completely contradictory to Paul's efforts elsewhere, including Christ's words regarding righteous judgment.

So we have to reexamine the Colossians passage since it the only passage that doesn't seem to fit the rest of scripture regarding the same topic. The italicized words in the passage don't fit the rest of Yah's instruction in scripture.

- Ephesians 4:11-13
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying [i.e. building] of the body of Christ: UNTIL we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

^It's literally some members job in the body to perfect the faith walk of the members of the body, this requires judgment, as designated by Yah. Judgment is not the same as condemnation.


- Peter's letters to believers...James'...Jude's...John's letter
NONE of these men are the head of the body and yet EACH of these members of the body judged the body on what the body was and wasn't meant to do in their faith walk.

----

So based on scripture, we ARE to judge & reprove & edify the body of Christ in their walk as different members of the body, yet with one spirit. I think we're making a doctrine out of a single passage in one of Paul's letters that was corrupted with italics, which is - the corruption itself, that is - contradictory to the very purpose for which the letter was written to the Colossians: to judge & reprove & edify the body of Christ in their walk.

All judgment should be in righteousness and in love for edification of the body.

----

Next the question is, what does "Judge in righteousness" mean? And how does that relate to the Sabbath?

Well "Righteous" = Sedeq (Heb) = "accurate, fairly, just, just cause, justice, rightly, what is right." And there is only one standard that determines accuracy/fairness/justice/what is right, and that is the Law of Yah. So to be righteous (Sedeq) is to be lawful. And when we sin (i.e. break Yah's law) we are no longer righteous and must be cleansed. But there is no law that can cleanse us of our sin, it can only determine what's right and wrong, so we need Christ's blood to cleanse us (through faith). And then when we are justified/cleanse again we're expected to be righteous and "sin no more" (i.e. to obey Yah's law).

So to "judge in righteousness" means to judge in "what's right" based on the royal law of Yah, through the Spirit. And one of His laws is "remember the Sabbath and keep it holy".

So let's remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. We are set-apart for a reason. Christ brought us out of the world without condemnation as we were, and now we are to be sanctified into a holy priesthood. We should be operating less and less like the rest of the world and more and more like Christ did, as time passes in this faith walk. "Attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ".
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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To stop all argument why don't you do your thing with the Moon and we do our thing with counting up to seven.....we will all be happy ! GOD will sort us all out !
it's not 'my thing' it's something I heard about that a minority of Jews do, and I have been trying to ask for the opinions of people who I have good reason to assume have put a lot of thought into the appointment of days in the scripture, and evidently are suspicious of anything Jewish teachers of the Law say. seemed very relevant and natural thing to bring up here.

somewhat surprisingly I'm being tremendously ((purposefully?)) misunderstood simply by asking a question.

if you have no idea, that's fine. but why launch off in totally unrelated diatribe and accusations?

people are weird.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
The bible says to "prove all things", and to search the scriptures daily,
to see if what others have said is true. We let the bible interpret the bible.
If I have an opinion, it comes from the bible itself, or understanding from God.
-

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?
even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding
have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach
men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do
and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.



True you can worship God every waking moment , but The bible
says not to work for money on the 7th day Sabbath, a gift given.

There is also a warning given to the new test. church.
-
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people,
that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

So as the custom of Christ was, and also Paul's was [after the cross] for us to see.
Also [a future event] is recorded for us about Gods calendar, and the Sabbath day.

"And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from
one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord."

Seems we will go back to using [Gods oracles in the future], instead of mans ways.

And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be
the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep
the feast of tabernacles.



Please show me where I have personally condemned and judged, or attacked anyone.
You seem to be the one making rude comments and judging others for keeping Sabbaths,
that is complete opposite of scriptures. Not sure how posting verses is judging others.



What scripture and subject are you talking about ?, that you given me many times.
Please provide them now for review, if I never responded before to the subject.

well you have not proven your Sabbath day renderings in the least

what you folks do is judge everyone by YOUR personal yardstick and the only ones who measure up in your estimation are you and other law keepers

you are law keepers

there have been reams of scripture posted here that refutes your position and you just ignore it

so pardon me if I do not go into detail answering your 'position' because it is not Christ centered ... it is YOU centered

Please show me where I have personally condemned and judged, or attacked anyone.
You seem to be the one making rude comments and judging others for keeping Sabbaths,
that is complete opposite of scriptures. Not sure how posting verses is judging others.
right

the moment any Sabbath keeper starts with the Sabbath business, they immediately judge anyone who does not agree with them

that is something you have to do. you either do that, or change your position

please...the false humility is not sticking to you folks very well

just go back and read the posts...you folks attack over and over and then sit back and say your feelings are hurt

well, my feelings are not hurt and I am sure neither are yours

anyone can post verses. anyone. there is not one single verse posted by law keepers here, or Sabattarians or whatever you want to call yourself, that proves you need to worship on Saturday or you are not saved yet that has been lobbed more than once

And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be
the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep
the feast of tabernacles.
well you keep it and I will keep covenant with Christ and remember Him until He returns because He said THIS do in remembrance of me

so you have made your own religion...you are not a Jew who has refused Christ and you are not a Gentile who has accepted Christ by faith. you have to continually add to your own works while God has rested from His and those in Christ are resting from 'works' in Him

you do not even seem to understand what that means

the simple thing that judges YOU, is your judgement of others who are not Sabbatarian law keepers.

you are not the judge of anyone who shows you with scripture that is not a covenant with Gentiles

instead, you pretend you have a little extra in your salvation but it is really only leaven
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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by what you say here I am sure you are very confused.
you don't know what I believe, that is evident, because every time you say something about me it is an obvious lie. I can only conclude that you either lack the capability to comprehend what I say, or that you love arguing more than you care for the truth.

I don't think I do misunderstand you Post, I might be a bit more direct than most are used to, I learned that from Jesus.

"they quote Exodus and Leviticus and completely disregard what Christ has done, removing the written requirements of the Law and setting us free"
Of course it is not true that me or others who disagree with you, disregard the Christ, but I would rather have a discussion.

So given this post and others it seems you believe that God created Laws so burdensome, so unjust, and then killed those who didn't keep them in order to prove we can't keep them. Such an understanding of God would paint a picture of Him as unjust and not interested in our well being at all. It seems this same God gave us an example of the serpents deception which casts the same doubt about the God of the Bible onto Eve.

So Jesus came to save us from the wrath of this God and freed us from His unjust Laws Which are a burden to all mankind.

So it isn't our sins or wickedness that Jesus came to save us from, but God's Wrath and His burdensome Laws. This implies that it isn't the wickedness of man that needed to be repented of, God was the one who made the mistake. We are basically an innocent victim of God's unjust burdensome Laws and that is the problem. If it were not for God's unjust Laws, we wouldn't need forgiveness. (No Law, no sin) Now that Jesus has removed God's written Laws, which is the Law and Prophets, you are free to live and serve your own religious vision and traditions, that men were not free to do before Jesus, as long as we give Jesus the credit. And men demand to be free from any judgment for this. The Pharisees did the same thing when Stephen exposed their religion. They put him on permanent ignore.

So I oppose this preaching because, In my opinion, this is exactly the same thing Eve was convinced to believe.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die (You are saved)
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (disobey the instruction) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, (Delicious, sizzling) and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat

To be fair, you are not the only person who preaches this religion. It is widely accepted as truth. But in order for it to be truth, a man must destroy the Law and Prophets, and ignore many of the Word's of the Christ Himself. Jesus said He didn't come to "Remove" them, Paul said he believed "ALL THINGS" written in them and Peter said God gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey the God in them.

I think the scriptures teach that Jesus removed the death penalty, described in the Law, that I incurred because of MY actions and works, not because of God's Works.

And the scriptures don't support the doctrine that Jesus removed the "written Laws" that God before ordained that we should walk in them. Although this teaching might fit nicely for man's religious tradition, I don't believe one sentence out of Col. 2, erases the teaching of the entire Book.

After all, according to Paul, the Law and the Prophets is the Gospel of Christ. For "therein" is the wrath of God revealed.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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And the scriptures don't support the doctrine that Jesus removed the "written Laws" that God before ordained that we should walk in them.
Nevertheless what saith the scripture?
(Galatians 4:30)
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath He quickened together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses; blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross
(Colossians 2:13-14)
therefore
(Colossians 2:16)

in our sin, dead, uncircumcised, the written Law was against us.
it is nailed to the cross -- that very Word -- Him who they have pierced.


until the day dawn and the day star arise in your hearts
(2 Peter 1:9)

this leads to an inevitable, perfect conclusion...


hallelujah! :)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,886
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And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath He quickened together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses; blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross
(Colossians 2:13-14)

whacha think, by dying for us He blotted out purely human pharisetical non-scriptural, non-binding ordinances that God never condemned anyone for and therefore cannot be called 'trespasses' in the first place in His view? He nailed to the cross useless and totally irrelevant commandments of men? that didn't need being nailed to anything at all because God never judged anyone by them, only pharisees did?

saved from the condemnation of things that could never condemn anyway?
for this He died? uselessly?


:p

what's the 'therefore' of that perverted 'wherefore' ?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,886
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He - the one we are to walk in - was nailed to the cross



. . and risen!! :D
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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Nevertheless what saith the scripture?
(Galatians 4:30)
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath He quickened together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses; blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross
(Colossians 2:13-14)
therefore
(Colossians 2:16)

in our sin, dead, uncircumcised, the written Law was against us.
it is nailed to the cross -- that very Word -- Him who they have pierced.


until the day dawn and the day star arise in your hearts
(2 Peter 1:9)

this leads to an inevitable, perfect conclusion...


hallelujah! :)
Well then it's settled. I do understand your doctrine perfectly.



hallelujah!
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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well what Sabbatarians call Bible evidence, is what I referred to as 'made up', mashups
and ignoring Paul the Apostle who keeps getting in their way so they do not like him and
dismiss him as disruptive and most likely a crank anyway.
Another post you have put down others who you disagree with. DO YOU believe
in follow the things Paul did and said, or do you ignore the points listed below ?

#1. Paul was a Pharisee. A teacher of God's law. He continued to
call himself a Pharisee even after joining the church.

(Acts 23:6) Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees,
called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, descended from Pharisees.
I stand on trial because of the hope of the resurrection of the dead."

2. Paul loved God's law. It was a delight to him.

(Romans 7:22) For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,

3. Paul called God's law holy.

(Romans 7:12) So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy,
righteous and good.

4. Paul knew that breaking God's law is the very definition of sin.

(1 John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:
for sin is the transgression of the law.

5. Paul said that we don't nullify the law of God by our faith in Jesus Christ.

(Romans 3:31) Do we nullify the law by this faith? By no means!
Rather we uphold the law.

6. Paul often read from the scriptures on the sabbath (which is kept by the apostles 84
times in the book of Acts). And the only scriptures at that time was the old testament.

(Acts 17:2) As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue,
and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures.

7. Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses when he first joined the church.
(And ironically, he's still being accused today.)

(Act 21:21) They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among
the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children
or live according to our customs.

8. These accusations were shown to be false.

(Acts 21:24) Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses,
so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth
in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.

9. When Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses, he always denied this,
and said he does live according to the law.

(Acts 24:14) But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call
a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law
and written in the Prophets,

10. Paul said that those who refuse to submit to the law are "carnal minded"
and hostile to God.

(Romans 8:7-8) The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit
to God's law, nor can it do so. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

11. Paul continued to travel to Jerusalem to celebrate God's feast days
after joining the church.

(Acts 18:21) But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that
cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

12. Paul often quoted from Moses's writings, and cited it as authority.

(1 Corinthians 9:9-10) Do I say this merely on human authority?
Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? For it is written in the Law of Moses:
“Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God
is concerned? Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us,
because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.

13. Paul claimed that ALL scripture is good for instruction in righteousness,
and given through inspiration of God. He never singled out Moses' writings.

(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
correcting and training in righteousness,

14. Paul mentions that priests are still offering sacrifices to God
even after Christ's death on the cross.

(Hebrews 8:3-4) Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices,
and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer.

If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests
who offer the gifts prescribed by the law.

15. The most well known teaching in Paul's letters is the one where he says
"you are not under law but under grace".

Millions of people quote this scripture, they almost always leave out the scripture
that immediately follows it. Watch what happens when you add the context....

(Romans 6:14-16) For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under
the law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law
but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to
someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are
slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

16. Paul told the Colossians not to let anyone judge them because they were observing
God's sabbaths and feasts because these appointed times are "a shadow of things to come".

Meaning they reveal future events, just like the passover foreshadowed Christ's
sacrifice on the cross.(Colossians 2:16-17)

17. Paul never repremanded anyone for obeying God's law. Instead, he repremanded
new gentile converts, the Galatians, who were trying to be justified by the law,
instead of faith in Jesus Christ.

(Galatians 2:16) Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith
in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by
faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one
will be justified.

18. The Galatians, who Paul was repremanding for trying to be justified by the law,
were going back to serving other gods after they were circumcised. This is why Paul
had to explain that the works of the law can't earn your salvation.

(Galatians 4: 8-11) Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those
who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God—or rather are known by God
—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish
to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months
and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

Those weak and miserable forces where not Gods convocation, but mans ways of the world.

19. Paul understood that obedience to God's law is a natural result of salvation.
Once you become a true christian, God writes His law on your heart and mind,
and causes you to walk in them.(Hebrews 10:16)

(Hebrews 10:16) "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time,
says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

20. Paul's letters come with a warning label attached to them.

(2 Peter 3:16-17) He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these
matters.His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant
and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you
may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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the handwriting of ordinances
the law could not, was not nailed to the cross,
but what was the handwriting of requirements?

"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,

which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross".

"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to
the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).

Since the bible it is only "those who do His commandments...{who} have the right
to enter...the city" , the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us."

Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of
the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).

the ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross," what was?
Look again at what the Bible actually says (two translations):

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NKJV)

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us,
which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross.. (Colossians 2:14, NASB)

The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances)
or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the stake, which some call a cross

Which requirements were wiped out?
the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin)
is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay

--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through
the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out
("the handwriting of requirements").


But only the penalty, not the law!
Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so. Notice what
Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:

"Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us
a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14),
which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is
the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one
who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary
to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin.

This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us,
Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition,
Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

look at the Greek term exaleipho translated as "wiped out" in Colossians 2:14:

NT:1813
exaleipho (ex-al-i'-fo); from NT:1537 and NT:218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears,
figuratively, pardon sin) (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance
with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International)

In other words, exaleipho has to do with wiping out sin. This is also confirmed in Acts 3:19
where Peter also uses the term exaleipho, which is translated as "blotted out" below:

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Hence, it is sin and the related penalties that are to be blotted or wiped out.
And the penalties could vary from "being unclean to the evening" (Leviticus 11:24-28)
to making an offering (Leviticus 5:5-6) to being "cut off from his people" (Leviticus 7:27)
to the death penalty (Exodus 31:14).

This is also confirmed elsewhere in the New Testament:

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us
(Galatians 3:13). The curse of the law is related to the penalty. And Jesus paid it.

But what about the law of God? Was the law of God to be wiped out? No:

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets.
I did not come to destroy but to fulfill (Matthew 5:17)


While some erroneously think that Jesus, for example, did away with the Ten Command-
ments by how He led His life, that most certainly was not the view of the early Christians
who continued to keep them[Paul included]

Furthermore, remember that the Bible clearly teaches that sin is lawlessness:

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know
that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. (I John 3:4-5).

Notice that Paul wrote:

Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!
How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2).

Thus the New Testament makes clear that the law of God continues,
thus it was not nailed to the cross or somehow wiped out.

The Bible, however, also shows that the requirements of the Levitical priesthood
(Hebrews 9:1,6-10) sometimes called the law, which were part of the penalty of sin,
were blotted out.

And why?

"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus
once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).

Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!

Another requirement (which is related) would be the death penalty of sin,
as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord"
(Romans 6:23) or other specific ceremonial penalties associated with the Old Testament
statutes (such as making a sin offering, being put outside the camp, or washing).
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
whacha think, by dying for us He blotted out purely human pharisetical non-scriptural, non-binding ordinances that God never condemned anyone for and therefore cannot be called 'trespasses' in the first place in His view? He nailed to the cross useless and totally irrelevant commandments of men? that didn't need being nailed to anything at all because God never judged anyone by them, only pharisees did?

saved from the condemnation of things that could never condemn anyway?
for this He died? uselessly?


:p

what's the 'therefore' of that perverted 'wherefore' ?
And yet, before the Christ came there was only one place to get information about God. A Levitical Priesthood, charged with administering God Instructions, that had corrupted God's Word to the point that if God sent them a Prophet, they killed him.

It is true God never condemned all those righteous men that Saul and the Pharisees murdered, nor the Prophets they murdered that this same God sent to correct them, nevertheless, He did promise to rectify this problem.

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, (The Levite Priests who "taught for Doctrines the Commandments of Men) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

They converted men to their man made religion Post.

Matt. 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

They had a Law.

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Did Zechariahs believe Jesus "made Himself" the Son of God? Did the wise men? No, but most everyone else thought so because they believed in the Pharisees Doctrines which were from the Commandments (Laws) of man, and not God.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Who was it that said the Gentiles were "Dead in their sins and the uncircumcision of their flesh"? Who was it that had a Law that condemned Gentiles that turned to God?. Was it the Law and Prophets? Did Jesus condemn the Gentiles who turned to God?

Matt. 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan (Gentile)came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. (They didn't eat their own food)

28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

No Post, it wasn't God that condemned Gentiles that turned to Him. It wasn't Jesus, it wasn't Paul.

It the only appointed Priesthood, the Mainstream Preachers of his time, that had created Law condemning Jesus, and condemning the Gentiles.

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

God's Law didn't condemn Jesus, how is it He triumphed over Him? Whose Law did He expose as false? Whose Law condemned the Gentiles? the Christ?

Did the Pharisees Law hold Jesus? Or did He make a show of THEM openly.

I know you can't accept this and won't even discuss it, but it does me so good to lay this out, and maybe someone else might read and understand that Jesus never "Removed" God's Laws just as He said He didn't. He exposed the Mainstream Preachers of His time as fake, as not having the power of God behind them.


Therefore!!!!!

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Because these are the Christ's, not handwriting of ordinances created by the mainstream religion of that time.

hallelujah!
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
331
83
Also I think we should settle once and for all this notion of whether we - the body of Christ - are to judge or correct the body of Christ in matters of their faith walk...or at least wrestle with what scripture says before trying to tackle particulars like the Sabbath.

Examples from OT, to the Messiah, to NT:

- Leviticus 19:15
"You must not pervert justice; you must not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the rich; you are to judge your neighbor fairly.

- Deuteronomy 1:16
At that time I charged your judges: "Hear the disputes between your brothers, and judge fairly between a man and his brother or a foreign resident.

- Psalm 58:1,2
Do you indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do you judge uprightly

- Zechariah 7:9
"This is what the LORD of Hosts says: 'Administer true justice. Show loving devotion and compassion to one another.


- John 7:24 (Messiah)
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

- Matthew 7:1-5 (Messiah)
Judge not, lest ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, FIRST take the plank out of your own eye, AND THEN you will see clearly TO REMOVE the speck from your brother’s eye.

^In full context; not a commandment not to judge, but a commandment not to be a hypocrite, i.e. JUDGE RIGHTEOUSLY; "practice what you preach", which is in harmony with what he also said in John 7:24.

Luke 17:3 (Messiah)
So watch yourselves. "If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.

^A sin is a transgression against Yah's law. Here's an example of direct instruction to judge and rebuking someone who breaks Yah's law against us (such as one of the commandments regarding how to love our neighbors).


- ANY of Paul's letters to believers ANYWHERE.
Paul is not the head of this body, and yet Paul judged and reproved converts on their walk AND sins. Paul even judged Peter for wrongdoing. Paul is an equal member of the body judging another member of the body in their walk, so wouldn't he be braking his own instructions in Colossians 2:16 by his actions?

Consider for a moment; what sense would it make to write a long letter reproving believers in other sections only to say in one section, "let no man judge you..."? What, "no man" like Paul? Such instructions are completely contradictory to Paul's efforts elsewhere, including Christ's words regarding righteous judgment.

So we have to reexamine the Colossians passage since it the only passage that doesn't seem to fit the rest of scripture regarding the same topic. The italicized words in the passage don't fit the rest of Yah's instruction in scripture.

- Ephesians 4:11-13
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying [i.e. building] of the body of Christ: UNTIL we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

^It's literally some members job in the body to perfect the faith walk of the members of the body, this requires judgment, as designated by Yah. Judgment is not the same as condemnation.


- Peter's letters to believers...James'...Jude's...John's letter
NONE of these men are the head of the body and yet EACH of these members of the body judged the body on what the body was and wasn't meant to do in their faith walk.

----

So based on scripture, we ARE to judge & reprove & edify the body of Christ in their walk as different members of the body, yet with one spirit. I think we're making a doctrine out of a single passage in one of Paul's letters that was corrupted with italics, which is - the corruption itself, that is - contradictory to the very purpose for which the letter was written to the Colossians: to judge & reprove & edify the body of Christ in their walk.

All judgment should be in righteousness and in love for edification of the body.

----

Next the question is, what does "Judge in righteousness" mean? And how does that relate to the Sabbath?

Well "Righteous" = Sedeq (Heb) = "accurate, fairly, just, just cause, justice, rightly, what is right." And there is only one standard that determines accuracy/fairness/justice/what is right, and that is the Law of Yah. So to be righteous (Sedeq) is to be lawful. And when we sin (i.e. break Yah's law) we are no longer righteous and must be cleansed. But there is no law that can cleanse us of our sin, it can only determine what's right and wrong, so we need Christ's blood to cleanse us (through faith). And then when we are justified/cleanse again we're expected to be righteous and "sin no more" (i.e. to obey Yah's law).

So to "judge in righteousness" means to judge in "what's right" based on the royal law of Yah, through the Spirit. And one of His laws is "remember the Sabbath and keep it holy".

So let's remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. We are set-apart for a reason. Christ brought us out of the world without condemnation as we were, and now we are to be sanctified into a holy priesthood. We should be operating less and less like the rest of the world and more and more like Christ did, as time passes in this faith walk. "Attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ".
GREAT POST !!! I hope people will take note of it instead of always complaining of being 'judged....when in fact they are being 'corrected of the Lord !!!
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
331
83
the law could not, was not nailed to the cross,
but what was the handwriting of requirements?

"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,

which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross".

"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to
the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).

Since the bible it is only "those who do His commandments...{who} have the right
to enter...the city" , the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us."

Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of
the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).

the ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross," what was?
Look again at what the Bible actually says (two translations):

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NKJV)

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us,
which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross.. (Colossians 2:14, NASB)

The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances)
or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the stake, which some call a cross

Which requirements were wiped out?
the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin)
is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay

--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through
the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out
("the handwriting of requirements").


But only the penalty, not the law!
Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so. Notice what
Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:

"Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us
a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14),
which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is
the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one
who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary
to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin.

This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us,
Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition,
Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

look at the Greek term exaleipho translated as "wiped out" in Colossians 2:14:

NT:1813
exaleipho (ex-al-i'-fo); from NT:1537 and NT:218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears,
figuratively, pardon sin) (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance
with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International)

In other words, exaleipho has to do with wiping out sin. This is also confirmed in Acts 3:19
where Peter also uses the term exaleipho, which is translated as "blotted out" below:

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Hence, it is sin and the related penalties that are to be blotted or wiped out.
And the penalties could vary from "being unclean to the evening" (Leviticus 11:24-28)
to making an offering (Leviticus 5:5-6) to being "cut off from his people" (Leviticus 7:27)
to the death penalty (Exodus 31:14).

This is also confirmed elsewhere in the New Testament:

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us
(Galatians 3:13). The curse of the law is related to the penalty. And Jesus paid it.

But what about the law of God? Was the law of God to be wiped out? No:

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets.
I did not come to destroy but to fulfill (Matthew 5:17)


While some erroneously think that Jesus, for example, did away with the Ten Command-
ments by how He led His life, that most certainly was not the view of the early Christians
who continued to keep them[Paul included]

Furthermore, remember that the Bible clearly teaches that sin is lawlessness:

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know
that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. (I John 3:4-5).

Notice that Paul wrote:

Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!
How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2).

Thus the New Testament makes clear that the law of God continues,
thus it was not nailed to the cross or somehow wiped out.

The Bible, however, also shows that the requirements of the Levitical priesthood
(Hebrews 9:1,6-10) sometimes called the law, which were part of the penalty of sin,
were blotted out.

And why?

"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus
once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).

Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!

Another requirement (which is related) would be the death penalty of sin,
as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord"
(Romans 6:23) or other specific ceremonial penalties associated with the Old Testament
statutes (such as making a sin offering, being put outside the camp, or washing).
Another GREAT POST from one of God's people !!! Thank you for your effort in spelling it out.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
331
83
And yet, before the Christ came there was only one place to get information about God. A Levitical Priesthood, charged with administering God Instructions, that had corrupted God's Word to the point that if God sent them a Prophet, they killed him.

It is true God never condemned all those righteous men that Saul and the Pharisees murdered, nor the Prophets they murdered that this same God sent to correct them, nevertheless, He did promise to rectify this problem.

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, (The Levite Priests who "taught for Doctrines the Commandments of Men) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

They converted men to their man made religion Post.

Matt. 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

They had a Law.

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Did Zechariahs believe Jesus "made Himself" the Son of God? Did the wise men? No, but most everyone else thought so because they believed in the Pharisees Doctrines which were from the Commandments (Laws) of man, and not God.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Who was it that said the Gentiles were "Dead in their sins and the uncircumcision of their flesh"? Who was it that had a Law that condemned Gentiles that turned to God?. Was it the Law and Prophets? Did Jesus condemn the Gentiles who turned to God?

Matt. 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan (Gentile)came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. (They didn't eat their own food)

28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

No Post, it wasn't God that condemned Gentiles that turned to Him. It wasn't Jesus, it wasn't Paul.

It the only appointed Priesthood, the Mainstream Preachers of his time, that had created Law condemning Jesus, and condemning the Gentiles.

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

God's Law didn't condemn Jesus, how is it He triumphed over Him? Whose Law did He expose as false? Whose Law condemned the Gentiles? the Christ?

Did the Pharisees Law hold Jesus? Or did He make a show of THEM openly.

I know you can't accept this and won't even discuss it, but it does me so good to lay this out, and maybe someone else might read and understand that Jesus never "Removed" God's Laws just as He said He didn't. He exposed the Mainstream Preachers of His time as fake, as not having the power of God behind them.


Therefore!!!!!

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Because these are the Christ's, not handwriting of ordinances created by the mainstream religion of that time.

hallelujah!
Well - these GREAT POSTS just keep coming !!! Thank you Lord for the beautiful messages they contain....

Praise the Lord ! Hallelujah !
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,886
8,502
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They had a Law.

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me
(Deuteronomy 32:39)

Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.
(Leviticus 24:16)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,886
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the law could not, was not nailed to the cross,
it is Christ who was crucified.
He is the Word of God


how did this come to be:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the Law, but under grace.
(Romans 6:14)

?


therefore . . .
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,588
518
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The physical sabbath day was only given to Israel for the physical covenant the Old Testament, in which they could not have the Spirit to be perfect in love, so God had them do physical ordinances that they did have the power to keep, and to celebrate the making of this earth in which God rested on the seventh day, so they should too.

We have to keep the ten commandments for they are laws of love towards God and people, and we keep the sabbath which is a spiritual rest now by the Spirit, which God said with stammering lips and another tongue will He speak to these people saying, this is the rest wherewith you may cause the weary to rest, and this is the refreshing, yet they would not hear.

Jesus went away to prepare a place for the saints, and when a person receives the Spirit the kingdom of God is within them, and they are strangers on earth seeking a better place, one made by God.

So we celebrate the making of the new earth, and a spiritual rest by the Spirit, and are not part of the world, but part of the new earth, the New Jerusalem.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,886
8,502
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Notice that Paul wrote:

Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!
How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2)
can you summarize the argument Paul makes from Romans ch. 5 through ch. 8, out of which you pulled this one verse?
what is in the context in which he says this, what does he mean 'died,' how did this happen, why was it necessary, what did it accomplish - what are the implications of the fact and the conclusion of it? why would grace be abounding with increasing sin? why would this thought even cross anyone's mind? who's "we" here in this hypothetical question? what is he calling "sin"? what is the "grace" he mentions? how is it accomplished, to whom is it shown?
what is his premise, and the systematic steps through logic and truth he takes in order to arrive at chapter 6? what does he say the result is? what specifically does he compel "we who died" to do? on what basis?

do we understand what we are reading or are we quote-mining?


prove it.

thanks :)