Sabbath

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#81
Jesus was speaking from the "in the beginning." I wish people would listen to Jesus all through the Word, not jusst where it suits theem.

Again, the Sabbath of the Lord (not theother Sabbaths) is a gift from God to man long before there was a hEBREW, LONG BEFORE THERE WAS A WRITTEN LAW.

The family in Jesus shuld all already know this, but painfully, the majority do not.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,193
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#82
the believer ought to know that Christ is our rest.

what good is a symbol if it's not understood? might as well be scribbling instead of writing words if no one knows how to read...
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
15,928
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#83
Nothing was created by anyone other than the Word.

Jesus Christ is the Word.

Jesus Christ gave us the Sabbath of the Lord after six days of creating.

This was long before the Law or the Commandments.

It isw a gift from Him to us all, and yes, He is our Rest, but not how so many here have twisted it.

Remember it is not like other sabbaths, it is the only One that is the Sabbath of the lORD.

It came before laws and commandments but faith was always there for those who truly sought it, and seek it yet today.

No one is authorized to say it has been altered from the Seventh Day, no ne.........Jesus has not changed a think about it.

If any believe the Sabbath of the Lord is changed by Him to the first day, he is sorely mistaken and teaching against
the Word.....simple and true.
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
673
184
43
#84
I should do some research to find if there is a Jewish Chat. I wonder if Christians go on there trying to convince them they are only reading half the Bible?
I find it strange people come here to tell us that the NT is flawed and should be disregarded.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
10,810
5,638
113
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#85
I should do some research to find if there is a Jewish Chat. I wonder if Christians go on there trying to convince them they are only reading half the Bible?
I find it strange people come here to tell us that the NT is flawed and should be disregarded.
There is nothing flawed about the New Testament. The only thing flawed is the perception of what the NT says. Antichrist got into religion early and he took over Christianity during the dark ages. People now read the Bible with so much traditional understanding, with the errors of antichrist so engrained, they cannot recognize the truth.

blue-smiley-that-says-no-emoticon.gif
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,743
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#86

I have not quoted the poster here because it is actually a copy/paste in defense of Sabbatarian worship

Today, there is a widespread belief that the Sabbath of the 4th commandment is no longer binding under the new covenant. But what you are about to read is Bible PROOF that the seventh day sabbath IS still binding today.
this is misleading right from the start. the Bible does not say ANYWHERE, not in either covenant or the small print, that the 4th commandment is binding with the exception of the other 9. the reality that is ignored by Sabbatarians in their adherence to one commandment while saying this one is THE one, is that they cannot base it on scripture. it's just not there.

are they trying to say God gave Moses 9 commandments and then added a special one? the others are not binding but one is?


(we know we are not to murder, commit adultery, covet, and make idols to worship but even if we do, we can be forgiven...but do not make it a lifestyle)

aww but wait! now just in case (humor I'm sure cause those tablets were heavy and I don't mean just cause they were stone), see the 4th one? no no Moses...just a little further down (Moses was sweating by now wondering how he was going to enact all this) and the sweat blurred his vision...yes a little further down...there that's it...the 4th commandment! that's the magic one! I know no one is going to be able to be perfect by never sinning..cause if you break one, you broke 'em all...now Moses really swallows hard...but this one, the 4th, is going to be an escape clause.

just make sure you never work or do anything...you can breath...and remember to keep it holy...that means set apart (of course as time went by, it became religious and perfectionist oriented) and just contemplate all I've created and you're gold!

so Moses pushed his hair back and thought about that. 'just making sure now...all we have to do is keep this day as special?'

yes that's what I said...now scoot cause you have some problems to take care of in the camp down below. a bit of rowdiness.

and that is how it came to pass, that one day secured salvation and that is why Sabbatarians can neglect the little details like

being kind to those who do not agree with them or not thinking they are better than everyone else and have attained a level of salvation that is better than the original.

now I know that is a little long, but it's shorter than reading all the copy/pastes and leaves out all the legal jargoneze that is not in the original manuscript anyway


I figure if a Sabbatarian can constantly present made up 'facts' and scripture mashups and tell us Paul is not really an apostle, I can come up with a little something that is easier to understand and a little humorous besides.


2nd part follows
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,743
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#87
There is already a lot of Bible evidence that shows the seventh day sabbath has never been done away with. But let us look at something from the old and new covenants that actually proves the 7th day Sabbath to still be a binding commandment for us all.
Ok, how was the old covenant ratified (ie, put into force)? If you read Exodus 24:8, you will see that it was through the shed blood of an animal that the old covenant was ratified and put into effect.
well what Sabbatarians call Bible evidence, is what I referred to as 'made up', mashups and ignoring Paul the Apostle who keeps getting in their way so they do not like him and dismiss him as disruptive and most likely a crank anyway.


Exodus 24:8 ...'And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.'
Same question with regards to the new covenant. How was it ratified? We all know that the new covenant was ratified and sealed by the blood of Jesus Christ, which Hebrews 10:29 confirms. Now take a look at the following verses:
Hebrews 9:16-17 ...'For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.'


and this brings us to the badly misunderstood covenant. a covenant is not binding with the death of one of the participants. let me illustrate, in this particular case, why Paul is such a nuisance. He had this to say in the 7th chapter of Romans.

1Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him.3So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Paul goes on to say that the law was given to expose sin and Paul says when the commandment came, he was sentenced to death because of it


ALSO notice how Paul says the covenant is only binding as long as a person lives...aren't we supposed to be DEAD in Christ? what gives? well, Paul says we have DIED TO THE LAW...that means it is NO LONGER BINDING ON US!!

COULD NOT BE PLAINER so how is the Sabbatarians dismiss it so easily? (they dismiss Paul but often forget to let you know that, but that is one of the reasons they twist scripture so much. they create a picture of the Bible as though it were a puzzle and it becomes one because they keep leaving out the main pieces! so it never works and that is why it sounds so unconvincing and confusing! it is not longer the Bible you know...it has become the Sabbath book of the Law...but just one mind you!

now just pause a moment and ask yourself why say the 4th commandment has some power that does not apply to the rest of the law? now a Sabbatarian will tell you that is because GOD rested so that makes it different. HOWEVER, God did not up and start creating again after His day of 'rest' ended and that is because HIS DAY OF REST NEVER ENDED. techincally if the Sabbatarians want to be so holy in their own estimation, they ought to just rest 24/7 for the rest of their lives

but that is not exactly practical though...so actually they do not follow the 7th day correctly because it was ALWAYS a part of the other 9 commandments...and if you are going to follow the law then follow all of it. I don't recall God saying anywhere that you can chop it up...take your favorite parts and just never mind what is too hard or not to your favor.

so to get to the conclusion here, they have taken Hebrews (now that's ok because it is not certain Paul wrote that letter anyway) and misused what is said about covenants...remember they do not have to compare it to Romans because that book was written by that zealot Paul who just went overboard to the extent he said even circumcision is not needed to be saved and that just puts yet ANOTHER covenant out the window and there goes the whole understanding of keeping the Sabbath for a better salvation experience, so keeping within the perimeters of Sabbatarian understanding, we just ignore it, call it a Pauline and move on

so, nothing can be added to a covenant, but a covenant can actually be done away with and the old covenant of lawkeeping and animal sacrifice has been done away with and replaced by the sacrifice of Jesus whose blood actually atones for sin ans washes away our sins and purifies us from all sin...JUST AS IF WE NEVER SINNED! now that should make a Christian want to shout Hallelujah and perhaps you have

but it makes a Sabbatarian angry and sarcastic.

where's the joy? is there joy in keeping a dead covenant alive?

that would be the same as keeping your spouse tied to you after they died. I'm sure I do not have to describe what that would be like

remember Romans...Paul says we have a new covenant now and the old is dead


don't fall for the line that this creates people who sin all the time. that's nonsense. they also forget they are not in charge of people's salvation...that is Christ's responsibility...but the hardliners will tell you that you are not saved if you do not trot out their special revelation and abide by their rules. notice the word rules. that is not freedom in Christ and when a Christian says freedom they do not connect that word with being able to sin. Sabbatarians do that though, because they are all about self righteousness.

that would be righteousness created by the efforts of the individual APART from the righteousness of Christ
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,193
5,961
113
#88
is the sabbath supposed to be calculated by the moon?

((i.e. it's not saturday -- it's the 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th of every lunar month?))

the last new moon was July 13 in the common calendar - does that make today Aug. 3 ((Julian)), 22 Av ((Hebrew)), the actual sabbath?

no one even has an opinion on this?

God set all His feast days by the moon - and with all the hubbub about being anti-Julian calendar I would think at least one person besides me would have given some thought to whether they should be going by it to determine holy days, especially since a lot of us seem to attach such supreme importance to what day it is.

@OstrichSmiling in particular being up in arms about how the calendar was changed and the Jews adopted a totally different approach to calculating the days in the 4th century.

we want to get it right, don't we?

anyone?
all I got is a disagree smiley, which is weird, because all I did was ask a question. how can you disagree with a question lol
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,193
5,961
113
#89
all I got is a disagree smiley, which is weird, because all I did was ask a question. how can you disagree with a question lol
@Deade says "it is forbidden to ask about such things! shut up and saturn-day ye heathen!"

lol...?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,193
5,961
113
#90
There is nothing flawed about the New Testament. The only thing flawed is the perception of what the NT says. Antichrist got into religion early and he took over Christianity during the dark ages. People now read the Bible with so much traditional understanding, with the errors of antichrist so engrained, they cannot recognize the truth.

View attachment 186159
ya know with that being your opinion I'd think you of all people might consider whether we really ought to be using the lunar calendar to determine days, since that's what the Bible uses.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
331
83
#91
i don't think working with regret and resentment is giving the day to God, on any day, much less one a person considers set apart. does He not say whatever you work at, work as though to the Lord, not to man? what is it then if a person is grumbling the whole time they work, while saying they are working for His sake? who would such a person be actually murmuring and complaining against in their heart?
He says servants, obey your earthly masters with good will as to God, not to men - if that includes going two miles on some particular day when asked to go one, and you do it with resentment, regret, and inwardly complaining, what kind of 'spirit' are you in fact keeping a day with?

the Spirit of God produces contentment in every situation, thankfulness and joy. if i say i'm keeping a day towards God and i am full of discontent & grudging vexation at my work, which i claim to be doing as though to Him . . .
I can hardly believe all these terrible UNchristian NEGATIVE feelings should be part of 'regret....what are you thinking of ??? they are your understanding, not mine.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,743
3,287
113
#92
There is nothing flawed about the New Testament. The only thing flawed is the perception of what the NT says. Antichrist got into religion early and he took over Christianity during the dark ages. People now read the Bible with so much traditional understanding, with the errors of antichrist so engrained, they cannot recognize the truth.

View attachment 186159
so Christianity is nothing but a tool for the devil?

if that is true, then why does he attack Christians with such hatred and lies about them so much?

do you actually stop to think about the import of what you have said here?

you have basically stated that Christians are anti-Christs in disguise and the Bible is no longer the realm of the Holy Spirit meaning the Holy Spirit has abdicated His role as teacher among others things

do you think about YOURSELF that way too?

do you believe you recognize the truth? meaning, according to your post, that you believe yourself to be immune to deception

quite the post there deade
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,743
3,287
113
#93
no one even has an opinion on this?

God set all His feast days by the moon - and with all the hubbub about being anti-Julian calendar I would think at least one person besides me would have given some thought to whether they should be going by it to determine holy days, especially since a lot of us seem to attach such supreme importance to what day it is.

@OstrichSmiling in particular being up in arms about how the calendar was changed and the Jews adopted a totally different approach to calculating the days in the 4th century.

we want to get it right, don't we?

anyone?
all I got is a disagree smiley, which is weird, because all I did was ask a question. how can you disagree with a question lol
ha

well maybe that shows we are not all running around observing New Moon Sabbaths

by everyone I suppose you might have meant the special day worship gang......:confused:
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,743
3,287
113
#94
Jesus was speaking from the "in the beginning." I wish people would listen to Jesus all through the Word, not jusst where it suits theem.

Again, the Sabbath of the Lord (not theother Sabbaths) is a gift from God to man long before there was a hEBREW, LONG BEFORE THERE WAS A WRITTEN LAW.

The family in Jesus shuld all already know this, but painfully, the majority do not.
I have objected in times past to how certain members have spoken to you...rude and condescending

but I find your post here condescending to people such as myself who see Jesus all through scripture but get told by Sabbatarians that we do not actually see Jesus all through scripture and we need someone to point out to us that we are not following God at all

nice going
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
10,810
5,638
113
73
#95
no one even has an opinion on this?

God set all His feast days by the moon - and with all the hubbub about being anti-Julian calendar I would think at least one person besides me would have given some thought to whether they should be going by it to determine holy days, especially since a lot of us seem to attach such supreme importance to what day it is.

@OstrichSmiling in particular being up in arms about how the calendar was changed and the Jews adopted a totally different approach to calculating the days in the 4th century.

we want to get it right, don't we?

anyone?
all I got is a disagree smiley, which is weird, because all I did was ask a question. how can you disagree with a question lol
So what actual documentation do you have which proves that the seventh day cycle has been interrupted?

-Astronomy observance

"The human race never lost the septenary [seven day] sequence of week days and
that the Sabbath of these latter times comes down to us from Adam, though the ages,
without a single lapse."—Dr. Totten, professor of astronomy at Yale University.

"Seven has been the ancient and honored number among the nations of the earth.
They have measured their time by weeks from the beginning. The origin of this was
the Sabbath of God, as Moses has given the reasons for it in his writings."
—Dr. Lyman Coleman.

"By calculating the eclipses, it can be proven that no time has been lost and the
creation days were seven, divided into 24 hours each."—Dr. Hinkley,
The Watchman, July 1926 [Hinkley was a well-known astronomer].

"There has been no change in our calendar in past centuries that has affected in
any way the cycle of the week."—James Robertson, Director American Ephemeris,
Navy Department, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C., March 12, 1932.

"It can be said with assurance that not a day has been lost since Creation, and all
the calendar changes notwithstanding, there has been no break in the weekly cycle."
—Dr. Frank Jeffries, Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and Research
Director of the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.

There is no question about which day the seventh day of the week is.

The weekly cycle? The break between the shift from the Julian
to the Gregorian calendar? There was a well known break of 10 days.

In 1582, that Thursday the 4th was followed by Friday the 15th.

The weekly cycle was not interrupted. Now take a look at 1752, Wednesday
the 2nd was followed by Thursday the 14th. Again, the calendar had to be
adjusted to correct it to the seasons but the weekly cycle remained unchanged.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
10,810
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#96
so Christianity is nothing but a tool for the devil?

if that is true, then why does he attack Christians with such hatred and lies about them so much?

do you actually stop to think about the import of what you have said here?

you have basically stated that Christians are anti-Christs in disguise and the Bible is no longer the realm of the Holy Spirit meaning the Holy Spirit has abdicated His role as teacher among others things

do you think about YOURSELF that way too?

do you believe you recognize the truth? meaning, according to your post, that you believe yourself to be immune to deception

quite the post there deade
Where do you get most of your Christian teachings, we have Calvinist, Lutherans and many more that broke off from the Catholic Church just after the middle ages when people started becoming literate.

The RCC hijacked Christianity just about the time they formed after the Nicene Council in 325 AD. The pagan Emperor Constantine, that called the Council, steered Christianity for the rest of his life.

When these "Protestants" broke off, they did so with many complaints about church doctrine. These complaints (or protests) are what they derive their name from.

Trouble is, they carried enough of that false doctrine to make themselves daughters of the great whore (see Rev. 17:5). You don't even realize you are honoring the Catholics by keeping their teachings about the Sabbath. They even admit, in their ibid, they changed the Sabbath and that all of Christianity is following them. :cool:
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,193
5,961
113
#97
I can hardly believe all these terrible UNchristian NEGATIVE feelings should be part of 'regret....what are you thinking of ??? they are your understanding, not mine.
I can't believe you think you should regret doing something for God.
so maybe you just don't do it for Him, and that's how you're able to justify regret. of course that means you knowingly, deliberately sin, and think that's fine because, 'regret'
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,975
2,780
113
#98
Where do you get most of your Christian teachings, we have Calvinist, Lutherans and many more that broke off from the Catholic Church just after the middle ages when people started becoming literate.

The RCC hijacked Christianity just about the time they formed after the Nicene Council in 325 AD. The pagan Emperor Constantine, that called the Council, steered Christianity for the rest of his life.

When these "Protestants" broke off, they did so with many complaints about church doctrine. These complaints (or protests) are what they derive their name from.

Trouble is, they carried enough of that false doctrine to make themselves daughters of the great whore (see Rev. 17:5). You don't even realize you are honoring the Catholics by keeping their teachings about the Sabbath. They even admit, in their ibid, they changed the Sabbath and that all of Christianity is following them. :cool:
lets' see if you know this is well as you think- what theological issue prompted the council to be called?

also, there was another " event " that happened right in this time frame that also had a large effect. what was It?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
#99
so Christianity is nothing but a tool for the devil?

if that is true, then why does he attack Christians with such hatred and lies about them so much?

do you actually stop to think about the import of what you have said here?

you have basically stated that Christians are anti-Christs in disguise and the Bible is no longer the realm of the Holy Spirit meaning the Holy Spirit has abdicated His role as teacher among others things

do you think about YOURSELF that way too?

do you believe you recognize the truth? meaning, according to your post, that you believe yourself to be immune to deception

quite the post there deade
The Bible is full of examples of people who believed they were serving the living God, but were not. One way for us to know is by what they preach. Jesus said the Mainstream Preachers of His time "Transgressed the Commandments of God by their own traditions". We also have "many" examples of men, who claim to be God's Children, but became angry when God's servants would expose their doctrines as coming from man and not from God.

We have folks on this forum who believe things that are just not true, like they believe and preach that the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by following God's Instructions. This is a false preaching according to the Christ, the Word which became Flesh, yet there are folks who will argue and refuse to concede this teaching even when the scriptures are shown to them and the truth is clearly seen. They will ultimately stop listening, refuse to discuss and many even place those who expose their doctrines on ignore. The Mainstream God of Abraham preachers of Christ's time did the same thing, silencing and ridiculing, and even killing those who would point out false doctrines they taught.

It isn't Deade's fault that folks have been deceived into believing a lie. And as is the custom of religious man, instead of discussing the scriptures and changing our minds to mirror the mind of the Christ, they attack the messenger, and try to place their deception on the heads of those who would love them enough to warn them.

It's an age old story repeated over and over since Abel was killed by his "Christian" brother because abel honored God with all his might, and Cain did not.

No one is immune to deception, that is why the Christ has His Words which will last forever and they have been the same, pretty much, since man first received them.

This is why Jesus inspired it to be written;

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Eph. 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, (Like Jesus) unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

This was a hard pill for the mainstream preachers and those who followed them to swallow in Christ's time, and before. I think it's a mistake to believe we wouldn't be burdened by the same Pride and deception they had to overcome, but refused.

I think Deade is simply recognizing and willing to talk about the Elephant in the room, which are the doctrines and man made traditions of today Mainstream God of Abraham preaching people.

I would be much simpler to just follow the crown even when it is apparent the crowd teaches things that are not so.

But what good would that do for the brethren.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,743
3,287
113
Where do you get most of your Christian teachings, we have Calvinist, Lutherans and many more that broke off from the Catholic Church just after the middle ages when people started becoming literate.

The RCC hijacked Christianity just about the time they formed after the Nicene Council in 325 AD. The pagan Emperor Constantine, that called the Council, steered Christianity for the rest of his life.

When these "Protestants" broke off, they did so with many complaints about church doctrine. These complaints (or protests) are what they derive their name from.

Trouble is, they carried enough of that false doctrine to make themselves daughters of the great whore (see Rev. 17:5). You don't even realize you are honoring the Catholics by keeping their teachings about the Sabbath. They even admit, in their ibid, they changed the Sabbath and that all of Christianity is following them. :cool:

how ridiculous

I can tell you have never actually studied history

and since you know even less about me personally, your personal comments make even less sense

but then I have seen again and again that is where some people go when they cannot provide an actual answer